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The A4 gets a new heart.

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by aragorn, Feb 1, 2010.

  1. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 1, 2010]
    Well thanks to the assistance provided by Mark (Byzan_A4) we finally managed to get the engine swapped in the A4.

    Pauls old 1.8T went in, along with marks old turbo, a new timing belt and water pump, and a frankenclutch of my making involving a single mass flywheel from an Audi 80 and a clutch from an early A4 TDi. A sprinkling of new gaskets and seals finished it off nicely.

    Took us two days, taking it easy and there were only minor issues. I seem to have damaged the PAS pump trying to beat the pulley off it with a hammer (it now makes a nice rattly noise), and the radiator looks distinctly knackered, so they'll be needing changed at some point soon.

    Didnt take enough pics tbh, but i have the obligatory "engine on the crane" shot:
    [​IMG]

    As well as a pic of my frankenclutch:
    [​IMG]

    And for comical effect, a video of just how much play there was in the old DMF:
    [​IMG]http://friesian.lr90.org/gallery2/d/116-1/MOV00402.MP4

    Hopefully this will give the car many more thousands of miles of driving, and shows us a reasonably cheap Single Mass Flywheel setup for a 1.8T that seems to work just fine.

    Enjoy.
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2010
    #1
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  3. Geeman
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    Geeman Low Life

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    [Feb 1, 2010]
    Did you have fun splitting the gearbox from the engine, or was it pretty straight forward?

    I'm assuming there should be no play with the DMF then? What were the symptoms it was displaying?
    #2
  4. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Feb 1, 2010]
    Nice one! Loving the hybrid clutch. Should see you to 1000000 miles now with a bit of TLC :icon_thumright:
    Bit surprised it's not got an extra 4 cylinders firing diagonally though lol.
    #3
  5. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 1, 2010]
    DMF was showing no symptoms actaully. About 2 months ago it started juddering really badly. Especially when reversing, felt like there were boulders under the wheels it was that bad, then one day it stopped and drove normally again. No idea how much play there should be, but it seemed like waaay too much to us!

    The old clutch was gubbed, and i didnt fancy putting a new clutch into a knackered flywheel, or spending £300 on a new DMF, so i got the TDi unit for £35 from ebay and pored over the parts books until i found a matching clutch, which is from a 95-96 A4 TDI. Some time in 96 they converted the TDi's to dual mass as well, so it needs to be the early one. You could use the clutch from the 80 TDi, but i suspect the A4 one is a little stronger, as the pressure plate is a different part number, and given the 80 engine only makes 75hp, i figured the A4 one was a better choice.

    Splitting the box was easy (once we found that one last bolt), getting it back together took a bit of jiggling wedging levering and shaking though.
    #4
  6. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 1, 2010]
    nice one. have all this fun to come!
    that flywheel is comedy. Its meant to move about 3/4" when moved by hand!!
    #5
  7. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 1, 2010]
    I suspect when it started juddering a few months ago something has jammed, and its finally unjammed by breaking/bending whatever is inside. I'm just amazed it drove normally!

    When i get a chance i'll try and get the DMF off the old engine and see if its obvious whats wrong with it.

    Lee: The V8 is sat in the garage, infact mark was using it as a toolbox stand, but while tempting this car needs to stay sensible! I'm having to fight the urge to find some nice wheels and lower it a little. Anything i spend on the A4 is taking funds away from making progress on the land rover. Theres enough little bits and pieces required on the car as it is. Rad, PAS pump and rear wiper motor all need fixed, its needing some tyres soon too.
    #6
  8. Geeman
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    Geeman Low Life

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    [Feb 1, 2010]
    You, lowering it? Nooooo...!

    I'm assuming Tractor tyres... right?

    :lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:
    #7
  9. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 1, 2010]
    #8
  10. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    [Feb 1, 2010]
    Sell the Land Rover and make a beast of an A4.. simple! lol

    Only joking.. glad to see you've got the engine and turbo sorted on the old girl though :icon_thumright:
    #9
  11. rasA4
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    rasA4 Four Rings Mafia Specialist

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    [Feb 1, 2010]
    well done guys!
    #10
  12. andybnwc
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    andybnwc Member

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    [Feb 1, 2010]
    have you got your own crane or did you rent it?
    #11
  13. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 1, 2010]
    He bought it, as he will need it for putting the V8 in the landy amoungst other things
    #12
  14. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 1, 2010]
    I was impressed by the franken clutch, works well and is soooooo progresive and light. It's a shame about that noisey PS pump, its ruining a perfectly good swap/upgrade.

    It was also good to drive the car with some boost as the WG penny had fallen off the original K03 as suspected,what was suprising was the condition and location of the penny. We expected to find it in the CAT,not inside the turbine housing blocking the exhaust outlet.

    I did however find a use for the V8.......
    [​IMG]
    #13
  15. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 1, 2010]
    haha excellent, didnt realise you'd snapped that one!
    #14
  16. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 1, 2010]
    You need to get that WG penny pic up.
    #15
  17. Rallyman
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    Rallyman LPG Abuser & have VAGCOM

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    [Feb 1, 2010]
    I wish I had the time to check for parts, I went for the quickest and most painful way...dmf...£500 DMF and clutch kit

    I was told that you will expect alot of judder if you use a new cluch plate on an old DMF. BTW I hope you used new flywheel bolts!

    Mine lasted for 150,000 miles and was pretty sha**ed, down tothe rivets...

    I have kept items for posterity or if someone wants to measure them.....

    Michael
    #16
  18. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 2, 2010]
    Ha. I laugh in the face of sound advice!

    running a second hand stage 3 south bend clutch on my original Dual Mass (over 110k so far) and original flywheel bolts reused! it was a stop gap and needed to be done sharpish.

    that said, doesn't judding and there was way less float on my DMF compared to the video above.!
    #17
  19. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 2, 2010]
    Rallyman: TBH i didnt have £500 spare. I baught a clutch from Siena with the engine which turned out to be fubar, so that was £100 wasted, and the £400 the local factors quoted for a single mass conversion was out of my budget so i started looking at other options. This cost me £130+vat for the Sachs clutch kit and £35 for the flywheel, so pretty reasonable i recon.

    I reused the TDI bolts with a dab of locktite. They're shorter than the DMF ones and luckily they came with the flywheel.

    This is on 193k, so it'll be interesting to see the condition of the clutch plate itself. I'll get it out later in the week when i have some time.
    #18
  20. ian52
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    ian52 2000 a4 1.8tqs-yellow

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    [Feb 2, 2010]
    When i did my clutch at about 175k i just stuck a clutch kit on the old flywheel and used the old bolts etc. Would have like to get a single mass one but couldnt afford it at the time.
    #19
  21. Rallyman
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    Rallyman LPG Abuser & have VAGCOM

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    [Feb 2, 2010]
    It was cheque book repairs, and not much time to replace it, I went from a job where I didnt use my car to a job that I drive 40 miles, so I needed it to be done with the least agro as possible! I was also changing the box as well (I had buggered 4th gear). I would have liked to fit a SMF but all the factors / shops I rang said that there wasnt a kit for the QTS! Doh.... I wish this thread with parts had been written ages ago! LOL Would be interesting to see if the plates are the same size
    Im glad I diY'd it the garages would have charged me a fortune removing all the mud from the spline bolts!
    The only reason I bought new FW bolts is that I have seen a FW come loose on a rally car..... not a nice sight...
    #20
  22. ian52
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    ian52 2000 a4 1.8tqs-yellow

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    [Feb 2, 2010]
    That clutch you made up is it the early a4 tdi cover on it and what dia disk is it?
    #21
  23. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 2, 2010]
    Its a complete early TDI clutch kit, i can get you the sachs number if you want? i ordered it from AllGermanParts.

    228mm plate just the same as the 1.8T, cept because its not dual mass the plate has springs in it.
    #22
  24. ian52
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    ian52 2000 a4 1.8tqs-yellow

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    [Feb 2, 2010]
    Pitty it wasnt 240mm so you could use the s4 clutch.
    #23
  25. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 2, 2010]
    yeh, there arent any OE 4cyl 240mm flywheels unfortunately.

    Some of the 5cyl motors are 240mm single mass, but they have a different bolt pattern for whatever reason.
    #24
  26. docurley
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    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 3, 2010]

    That would be 3rd hand as I bought it used from the US and had it in my car for all of 3 weeks, I have to say it felt real good and very OEM.

    Arragon thanks for the sunday night help
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2010
    #25
  27. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 4, 2010]
    ah yes, forgot you had it in yours!
    still going strong and abused daily!
    #26

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