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The 170 story so far....

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by thewallboy, Apr 11, 2007.

  1. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 1, 2007]
    I'm coming to that conclusion myself :)
  2. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Aug 1, 2007]
    Have you tried holy water and chanting ?
  3. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 1, 2007]
    Don't really want the car to start spinning round and spewing vomit from the exhausts tbh :)
  4. Phil's Barber
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    Phil's Barber Top Gear

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    [Aug 2, 2007]
    I am starting to believe that better quality fuel reduces the occurence. Three tanks of shell diesel and only one brief occurence. Thats 1700 miles from the 5500 on the clock. Maybe, as others have suggested, this problem disappears as the car's miles increase.

    The 170 is turning into a pretty good engine as the miles pass and it loosens up. Def more torque from lower down than when new but I have to say that it will never be as refined as the 2.0 diesel in my previous car, a 320d. I am getting used to the firm ride of the A4 s-line but it could never be described as sporty. The e46 3 series managed to handle as well as the A4 and ride better, so I assume that the e90 compares even better. The B8 really needs to improve on the b7 if it is to compete! However, I dont really regret chosing the a4 over the e90 320d because I dont like the look of the beemer and it's image sucks.
  5. jbriddon
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    jbriddon New Member

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    [Aug 2, 2007]
    I have had exactly the same problems with my vw golf gt 170, with it sounding like a tractor and running badly all the time ( stuck in regeneration mode all the time) , and spoke to someone who runs diagnostic tests on DPF's who told me all the problems you are noticing are all flaws in the DPF technology which hasn't been perfected yet and that some cars just run better than others. As my car worked fine for 4 weeks before i had an ecu fault, he said it may have caused a fault on the DPF due to overheating and to get it changed, which the dealer did for me on monday ( swapped it for a filter on a car they had for sale) and so far it seems to have done the trick, but i know its early days yet. He also said to check the oil, because if the DPF is regenerating all the time , some diesel can mix with the oil which dilutes it and makes it run badly.
    Hope this helps as i know how frustrating this can be - mine had been doing this for 10 months!
  6. si_reading
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    si_reading Member

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    [Aug 2, 2007]
    DPF light has come on mine today :( Been told to drive it hard and it will go off but it's not gone off yet :|
  7. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 2, 2007]
    These DPFs are a bloody nightmare - wonder if anyone does a replacement exhaust that removes it? :)
  8. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Aug 3, 2007]
    If you do a search,there are several threads on other forums where they discuss DPF removal,apparently because they want to run bio-diesel and DPF's don't like it ?
    They say removal and subsequent 'fooling' of the ECU is easy.
  9. Detector
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    Detector Just waiting for the green light

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    [Aug 3, 2007]
    I just wish Audi could 'fool' with the ECU and find us a cure, 'just driven into work this morning accompanied by the tractor, it's begining to wear a little thin now.
  10. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 3, 2007]
    Well the tech guy didn't find anything but did check the system and said the last time it went through a regeneration cycle was six hours of driving previous to the check, which I'm pretty sure tallies with when the noise last happened.

    Both the dealer and myself are now convinced that the noise is a symptom of the regeneration but the question remains as to why it's regenerating so damn often.

    Apparently Audi's official stance is that the symptoms are a normal by-product of the regeneration process. When challenged as to why most cars don't do it they claim it could be down to individual driving patterns triggering the regeneration more often in some vehicles. Whilst I suppose this is possible it seems unlikely that people would drive so differently as to produce the problem very regularly in some cars yet not at all in others.

    Regardless of this, claiming the noise/stuttering is normal isn't really acceptable. I test drove two 170TDIs before making my decision and neither of them did it. To now say "oh btw, it will sound like a tractor on a regular basis" is unnacceptable.

    I'm now pursuing a complete replacement of the DPF to see what effect that has although this could prove rather more tricky that the previous speculative replacements I've had as I've no doubt the DPF is an expensive component.

    If there weren't the warranty concerns and the fact that I don't own the vehicle, I'd be inclined to remove the DPF altogether. Can't say I give a toss about smoke coming out the back :)
  11. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 3, 2007]
    I'd heard that you can't use bio-diesel with the DPF which makes me wonder whether this is related as I'm sure some "standard" diesel uses a small percentage of bio-diesel - perhaps this is what's upsetting the DPF and making it regenerate so often. Is there a list anywhere of the various diesel brands and what bio-diesel levels they contain, if any?

    Perhaps a specific brand of fuel contains a bio-diesel level high enough to permanently damage the DPF and cause this endless regeneration? Be interesting to correlate such a list of brands with those used by people with and without the problem - if those who've never had the problem have never used a specific brand of fuel this might point a finger.
  12. Twizzler
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    Twizzler Member

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    [Aug 3, 2007]
    Isn't it possible to disconnect the dpf sensor so the ECU doesn't keep regenerating? Then a quick blast every so often is probably all that's needed nto keep the dpf ok.
    Removing the dpf is ok I expect until you get to the MOT. I believe the tester has a pass figure for each model of car. Without the dpf your car may never pass it?
  13. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Aug 3, 2007]
    That makes sense as the MOT test for a diesel involves measuring the emissions with the engine 'at the governed limit' ( i.e.foot to the floor in neutral,max revs )
  14. si_reading
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    si_reading Member

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    [Aug 3, 2007]
    Got another light today after DPF one yesterday. Then went into limp mode which was fun and it's now sat on Audi Stockports car park. Just what I needed after a 12 hour day at work lol.
  15. JED
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    JED Member

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    [Aug 5, 2007]
    Following on from my previous posts, my DPF warning light came on six times from new to about 2000 miles. I took it back to the dealer last Friday before a trip to Scotland and they claimed to have emptied the filter by holding it at 2000rpm for a long time. Well, when I collected the car it had covered 120 miles, used at least a fiver's worth of fuel (presume they put it on a rolling road?).

    Any how, just to say that after this so called emptying of the DPF, the light has just come on again after 868 miles from the dealer having it back in. All of this driving was motorway type driving as I drove from Nottingham to Scotland and back again. I am going to have a big rant at the dealer tomorrow as no way can they say it was my driving style. Also, they apparently emptied it so they can't say that it was still full!

    I will let you know what they say as I am starting to like the idea of pursuing a full refund and getting a BMW!
  16. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 5, 2007]
    The basic problem appears to be that the DPF just doesn't work as intended. The info on the Audi website state it should regenerate continuously when doing motorway speeds yet this patently doesn't happen for many people and ends up with spurious regeneration, DPF clogged warnings and so forth.

    Audi have made a major faux pas with this technology, clearly releasing it before it's ready.
  17. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 6, 2007]
    But is does work OK on some cars. I wonder why that is. If it was a fundamental problem with the technology you would expect it to be a problem on all engines fitted with the DPF.
  18. Twizzler
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    Twizzler Member

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    [Aug 6, 2007]
    I note that some 170s seem to use lots of oil, whereas others don't. Are the users the ones with the dpf problem? Putting 2-stroke mix through the filter would clog it nicely.
  19. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Aug 6, 2007]
    That's the trouble with bugs though,isn't it.
    They can lie dormant,until 'something' triggers them.
    It's the same with lots of technologies.
    Take my mobile phone,for example.
    The software/firmware (whatever they call it) is supposedly littered with bugs.
    Damned if I've ever had a problem with it though.
  20. coupe-se
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    coupe-se Member

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    [Aug 6, 2007]
    My 170 Tdi has covered just over 16k now since it was new 12months ago.

    Oil used = 1ltr
    DPF warning light = never
    Fuel used = Shell and various Supermarkets
    Tractor noise = once AFTER a motorway trip and lasted for approx 3 miles driving through a town and seemed to go quiet above 2500rpm.

    On the whole the DF system works very well on my car with my driving style/conditions and produces no black soot from the exhaust.
  21. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Aug 6, 2007]
    Perhaps all these who haven't suffered DPF problems should add a word to their posts.

    YET.

    ;-)
  22. Ibis
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    Ibis New Member

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    [Aug 7, 2007]
  23. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Aug 7, 2007]
    That's a very interesting article.
    That's the 170,in any VAG product,off my list and any other employee's list too.
    We simply cannot guarantee to match their preferred driving style.
    Funny,but I thought manfacturers were supposed to build cars to suit their customers,not ask their customers to change to suit the car...
    Honestly,what a palavour.
  24. marklad2020
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    marklad2020 1st Gear

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    [Aug 7, 2007]
    Interesting. I do remember the dealer asking me if I drove my car mainly in the city, or on longer trips when I ordered the car. I now wonder if this question was asked to avoid any issues later with a blocked DPF.

    However, my car gets used on average twice, sometimes three times a week. Often it sits there for seven days without being driven. Many of the trips are less than 20 miles at slow speeds. My wife frequently puts supermarket fuel in it. It gets a one hour trip at least once a month but its mostly slow speed stuff.

    I've had it for a year now with no DPF problems and no tractoring at all. (it is a 140 however)
  25. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Aug 7, 2007]
    A 140 with a DPF ?
    Is that normal in Switzerland ?
    Maybe the 140 doesn't chuck the same amount of soot out,so it takes longer to clog.
    Or maybe the 140 ECU software doesn't have the bug that the 170 does...
  26. marklad2020
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    marklad2020 1st Gear

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    [Aug 7, 2007]
    It's optional on the 140. I am not sure if its optional or not on the 170. They have been offering TDIs with DFPs for about 2 years now.

    However, this is a country so obsessed by air quality that last year when it was particularly cold in Winter they were bothered by the polution caused by everybodies central heating boilers running flat out. The solution to this was to impose a 50mph nationwide blanket speed limit to compensate. Amazingly everbody complied without complaint.
  27. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Aug 7, 2007]
    Weird place.
    Motorsport is banned,yet they had a 125cc world champion two years ago.
  28. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 7, 2007]
    I not sure but I think the Swiss Parliament passed a law recently allowing motorsport again.
  29. JED
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    JED Member

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    [Aug 8, 2007]
    An update: on the way out today and after the DPF light had been on (for the 6th time) for some time, the glow plug light started flashing and I lost most power. The car would not accelerate beyond 2800rpm in any gear! I drove round for a while to see if it would clear, but it didn't.

    It's now back at the garage for a thorough investigation and I have been given a 140 TDi A4 which is superb compared to my 170. It seems less flat at low revs, is just as quiet and far more economical.

    If the fault continues I am going to try and get the car swapped for a 140 version....
  30. OutLore
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    OutLore VOIP Dude

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    [Aug 8, 2007]
    Thing is this actually seems like it could be a dangerous fault- if you needed to accelerate to get around something and you couldn't it could cause an accident.

    I wonder where VAG would stand in court if they knew that their cars would do this, but did not warn the drivers? :think:
  31. JED
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    JED Member

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    [Aug 8, 2007]
    Exactly! It was bizarre - the car would not accelerate at all well and as soon as I hit 2800rpm it would not go any further - took an age to get to 60 - a bit like driving my partner's 1.0 Matiz!!!

    They told me that they had not heard of any issues with the 170, so I gave them the URL of this forum!

    Anyone else had this problem - flashing glow plug light and extremely poor performance? Luckily I was close to the Dealer - last week I drove to Scotland, thank got it didn't do it then.
  32. Detector
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    Detector Just waiting for the green light

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    [Aug 9, 2007]
    If you drove to Scotland only last week I would have thought any residues in the exhaust system would have had ample opportunity to burn off, presuming that is, you don't live just this side of the border.
  33. JED
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    JED Member

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    [Aug 9, 2007]
    Exactly!

    The car is having a new DPF and pressure sensor fitted tomorrow - I wonder if that will sort out the problem??
  34. steve184
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    steve184 Active Member

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    [Aug 9, 2007]
    with my car i have admit any 'regneration cycle' it is doing it is doing a good job of not letting me know about it because i can never notice any sort of difference in running, with one small exception. Now and again, the tickover revs increase to just below a thousand and when driven in this state the gears change higher up (almost as if sport mode) - its a DSG, then when i get out after that journey i notice the exhaust is red hot and i mean red hot, can smell it and here it ticking as it contracts (is this the regen cycle, only my old 140 used to spuriously increase tickover for no apparent reason??). But thats it - it runs fine, goes just as well, sounds the same - i know this because i have a need to always drive with my drivers window open a bit!!! so i can hear the noises its making. DPF light? didn't even kow it had one! ive never had anything light up (whats it look like?) - 2000+ miles on the clock. Another thing, i do the worst shittiest mileage you can do in a car, this side of roadsweeping! my mpg proves this as i pretty much only average about 31-32mpg day in day out (unless i do a good run)
  35. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Aug 9, 2007]
    See the pretty poor mpg some people are reporting for the 170....
    Can it be attributed to the DPF as well ?
    Doesn't the recyling rely on extra fuel being injected into the cylinders,thereby raising the temperature and,as a side effect,the idle speed ?
    Like richening the mixture on a petrol car ?
    Which will harm the MPG.
    So...in chasing a lack of soot,you have to use more fuel ?
    Shouldn't we be aiming to use less fuel,not more ?
    I'm rambling,I may be totally wrong.
  36. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 9, 2007]
    Mine is the same except thant I cannot say I've noticed any increase in tick-over speed. I've never had the DPF light come on and never been aware of any 'regeneration cycle' taking place. The only thing I have noticed one or twice is the clicking noise from the exhaust when I stop, but I've assume this is quite normal when the exhaust is quite hot after a long run. My car has done 9000 miles and my driving is quite variable. I am now retired so my car does not do the usual journey to and from work each day. Some days it does not go anywhere and some days a few quite short journeys (10-20 miles) and others longer journeys, including some motorway driving. 2000 miles of the total 9000 was across France and Germany to Austria and back where I used many different makes of diesel. My normal is Shell ordinary Diesel and overall, at least according to the DIS, I'm getting around 40-43mpg whereas I got around 47-50mpg from my 140.

    As I have not noticed any thing at all perhaps they forgot to fit the DPF system when they made mine!

    I must admit if I was getting the same trouble some members are experiencing I would back to see the salesman/service manager/dealer principle and negotiating a deal on a replacement 140!
  37. JED
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    JED Member

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    [Aug 9, 2007]
    I might just be doing that!

    The 140 courtesy A4 car I have at the moment is lovely.
  38. si_reading
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    si_reading Member

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    [Aug 9, 2007]
    DPF light on mine again today but it's gone off now so presume it's cleared itself.
  39. S3DBW
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    S3DBW Member

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    [Aug 9, 2007]
    Exactly the same experience here. Just back from a 3000 mile trip around Europe and the car never so much as coughed the wrong way. Never seen any regeneration light on and have just completed over 7000 miles with the car. Average fuel consumption for the Europe trip was about 41.5 as measured by tank fills and mileage with DIS showing about 1 mpg higher. Also used a variety of fuels from normal diesel to vpower and some BP Ultimate. Cant say I noticed any difference in performance between any of the fuels. This does seem to be a bit of a variable problem
  40. MJZ 6370
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    MJZ 6370 Member

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    [Aug 9, 2007]
    Hi, as long term reader and first time poster, could I offer a theory to the variable 170 problems being reported.

    Here in N.Ireland we have a diesel adulteration problem with service stations selling diesel which is partly or wholly laundered agricultural diesel or with added paraffin, heating oil, paint thinners or gear oil. A BBC report has estimated that one third of all service stations sell adulerated diesel, some unwittingly.

    It would not be beyond the bounds of possibility that some diesel sold in GB is also adulterated locally or imported from the same entrepreneurs who supply the N.I. market. Perhaps such fuel could play havoc with the DPF?

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