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The 170 story so far....

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by thewallboy, Apr 11, 2007.

  1. vagman
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    vagman Member

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    [May 26, 2007]

    I did over 8k in mine (SB 170 DSG S-Line) before changing it and during the 7 months that I owned it, it didn't put a foot wrong.

    Decent economy @ 40mpg together with storming performance aint bad.

    No electrical problems and it only used 1/2 litre of oil.
    #81
  2. Covenant
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    Covenant Member

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    [May 28, 2007]
    At £15 a litre, I'd say it's worth befriending a garage owner somewhere. The markup on oil is stratospheric. I know when I worked for an independent Peugeot specialist about 8 years ago we were buying fully synthetic for about £1 a litre and selling for over £3 a litre.
    #82
  3. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [May 28, 2007]
    My 170 is much the same although I've only done 5k so far.

    Engine problems = none
    Oil consumption = haven't added any at all yet.
    Mpg with mixed driving = around 44mpg although I've just spent a week on holiday in Scotland and generally pottering around I was getting around 50mpg.
    For the 435 mile drive home down the M74/M6 my average speed was 72mph and the consumption was 43mpg.
    Strange noises = none.

    Much better to drive than my previous 140.
    #83
  4. steve184
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    steve184 Active Member

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    [May 28, 2007]
    no dpfs have been used for a while now particularly by the french car makers - Renault, Citroen, Peugoet. They call it FAP though. I remember this as my folks were going to buy a new megane 130 dci to repalce their old 120 dci but after the dealer explained to them about this sensor that every now and again got blocked and you had to drive at a steady 50 for 50 miles of something like that - they didn't bother.

    It is a good question tho why the 2.0 170 is the only engine to have it. Who knows? Maybe this is their first 'test engine'? But im glad it does! I saw a brand new Q7 3.0TDI at the gym yesterday and the back of it looked appallling all the back bumper (it was 2-tone) had black soot all over it - it looked a mess! I find my tail pipes dont even go the slightest bit black anymore, yet petrol ones do!
    #84
  5. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [May 28, 2007]
    Maybe in obtaining the extra 30bhp over the 140,Audi ended up with something that smoked like one of those gypsy lorries towing a funfair.
    So they had to fit it ?

    I do know America is particularly stringent on these things,so they've maybe fitted them with that market in mind.
    For example,as of last year California has decided that all diesel engines operating must have a DPF by 2013,even if it means retro-fitting them !
    #85
  6. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [May 28, 2007]
    Audi's home market in Germany is also very 'environmentally conscious' and the DPF is available on the 1.9TDI, 2.0TDI-140 and 2.0TDI-170 engines in the A3 range.
    #86
  7. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [May 28, 2007]
    Shouldn't that just be 'cosmetically conscious',coz the DPF doesn't make any difference to emissions that I can see any evidence of.
    It just stops the visible black smoke.
    Which could give the 'appearance' of the engine being cleaner,but that's it.
    #87
  8. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [May 28, 2007]
    By all accounds there are some health risks associated with the 'soot' from diesel engines and the DPF are designed to remove as much of this as possible. To quote an article in Wikipedia....

    "The main particulate fraction of diesel exhaust consists of small particles. Because of their small size, inhaled particles may easily penetrate deep into the lungs. The rough surfaces of these particles makes it easy for them to bind with other toxins in the environment, thus increasing the hazards of particle inhalation. Exposures have been linked with acute short-term symptoms such as headache, dizziness, light-headedness, nausea, coughing, difficult or labored breathing, tightness of chest, and irritation of the eyes and nose and throat. Long-term exposures can lead to chronic, more serious health problems such as cardiovascular disease, cardiopulmonary disease, and lung cancer".
    #88
  9. Detector
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    Detector Just waiting for the green light

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    [May 29, 2007]
    It now looks as if VW 170 engines have the same familiar problem http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/thread/910795.aspx

    They refer to their problem as Taxi or Transit like sound but we prefer Agricultural, certainly a better class of person on this forum don't you know.
    #89
  10. Matt
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    Matt Active Member

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    [May 29, 2007]
    Would you be better off getting a 140 & having it remapped to a similar power as the 170? You get the power of the 170 and some remaps 'claim' better MPG (when driving sensibly I presume) than before the map so still keep the 140's economy and presumably none of these agricultural noise problems as you dont have the DPF?
    #90
  11. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [May 29, 2007]
    And if you get any problems with the engine Audi can refuse to accept any responsibilty because the engine has been re-mapped.
    #91
  12. Matt
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    Matt Active Member

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    [May 29, 2007]
    I was led to believe that remaps like Revo for example aren't detectable? Is that right?
    #92
  13. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [May 29, 2007]
    I'm not sure, but I think that if there was a big engine failure and the dealer had to call in Audi's technical engineers for the OK to carry out major work, I'm sure they would be able to check the ECU and find out that various settings had been changed.
    #93
  14. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [May 29, 2007]
    I don't believe a word of the claims that certain maps are "undetectable" or can be removed with no trace. How do they know there isn't something hidden in there that they've missed? I'm positive Audi could tell if they looked hard enough.

    As for chipping a 140 to avoid the noise problems of the 170 - the 140 is almost as noisy in general as the 170 is when exhibiting the problem :)
    #94
  15. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [May 30, 2007]
    If you get superchips bluefin,and something goes wrong,you can remove the map before it goes to the garage.
    #95
  16. Matt
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    Matt Active Member

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    [May 30, 2007]
    That seems like the better option to me then. Although I wouldn't have it done straight away, leave it till after its 1st service to see if any new car problems come to light in that period of time.
    #96
  17. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [May 30, 2007]
    And the point I was making is whether it's really undetectable once this has been done? Superchips may claim so but then they would, wouldn't they? I'm convinced Audi could tell if they looked hard enough, although whether they'd look in the first place is debateable. If the engine lunched itself and they were looking at a warranty claim for a new engine then I reckon they'd look pretty damned hard.
    #97
  18. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [May 30, 2007]
    First and foremost,it would have to be something very unusual that would make them suspect it was tuning that caused the problem.

    Secondly,I don't think they have the time or the interest to give a hoot.They'll just fire it through the workshop like any other car.

    Thirdly,Superchips supply their own warranty in the unlikely event the manufacturer 'spits the dimmy'.
    #98
  19. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [May 30, 2007]
    the ECU does have a flash counter, so every time you put teh blue fin on and off it does up the flash counter.

    if its un naturally high, this would suggest a removable map to them id think.....
    #99
  20. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [May 30, 2007]
    I'd venture any problems people have with their 'tuned' Audis are exactly the same suffered by those with standard ones.
    In the two+ years I've been on here,I don't recall anyone coming on saying "my car threw a conrod".
    It's the same old problems,tuned or standard.
    In which case,the garage ain't going to be suspicious and ain't going to give a hoot.
    My next car's getting 'chipped',for sure (assuming it can be)
    I don't expect any problems from the car,or from the dealer if it does pear-shaped.
  21. steve184
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    steve184 Active Member

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    [May 30, 2007]
    a chipped 140 isn't going to be as smooth as a 170 either, plus the fact a chipped 170 will soon become 210!
  22. Ibis
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    Ibis New Member

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    [Jun 7, 2007]
    Vertigo1,

    Any further forward with the roughness problem - did the new part completely solve it?
    I bought a 2.0TDI 170 A4 in March and it began exhibiting the Transit symptoms after only 200 miles so a blocked sensor seemed unlikely.

    Symptoms:
    Slight cough and change in engine note when idling - Idle speed increases to 1000rpm.
    Hesitant to take up drive and sounds awful - an old transit is the best comparison.
    Also - something you didn't note - when it is in fault mode when you lift off the throttle after accelerating it does not cut the power immediately - there is a short delay with continued drive - long enough to make gear changes unpleasant as the flywheel is still spinning.
    It makes an exceedingly nice car pretty horrible to drive...

    "Re-boot" it and it goes away - but often returns immediately.

    The only pattern I have noted is that it was particularly prominent when I was forced to fill up with Morrison's fuel (only once!) and it seems to get worse as the tank reaches the red - suggesting silt. But saying that it does occur randomly at any fuel level.

    Nice to know it's not a Friday afternoon car though!
  23. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 7, 2007]
    Had to wait for the part to arrive and then for a slot at the dealer when they had a courtesy car. End result is it's going in tomorrow.

    Of course only time will tell and it will be a suck-it-and-see period after the replacement, waiting with baited breath to see if it reoccurs.

    Will keep you posted.
  24. Phil's Barber
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    Phil's Barber Top Gear

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    [Jun 8, 2007]
    Thanks Vertigo. I would be interested to hear the result of this. Still got the problem with my A4 and I can find no pattern or trends as to when it might happen.
  25. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 8, 2007]
    A4 with the 170 TDI engine?

    Didn't realise it wasn't an A3. That'll mean the A3, A4 & Golf are all now displaying this symptom.
  26. Ibis
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    Ibis New Member

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    [Jun 8, 2007]
    Looks like it!

    It seems to me that it must be a software error - but the dealer doesn't agree... in fact they say that the fault can't be re-created when in their custody...

    Good to know how you get on.
  27. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 8, 2007]
    It quite likely because all the 2.0TDI engines are built in the same factory in Gyor in Hungary on the same production line for which ever model.
  28. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Jun 8, 2007]
    An anagram of that is AGONY GIN HURRY
    That can't be good.
  29. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 8, 2007]
    Well the EGR valve has been replaced so it's now a question of waiting. Unfortunately the problem can sometimes not occur for several weeks at a time so it'll be over a month before I can say with any degree of certaintly whether it's been fixed. Of course if the noise occurs before then, then we're back to square one.

    Out of interest, I presume that the 170 TDI has the DPF in the A4 and Golf?
  30. Phil's Barber
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    Phil's Barber Top Gear

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    [Jun 10, 2007]
    Yes to the A4.
  31. motorbikez
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    motorbikez Active Member

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    [Jun 10, 2007]
    I've done 4k now

    Engine problems=none
    Oil consumption= none added still near max on dipstick
    Fuel consumption= 42mpg over the 4K
    strange noises = none

    Very pleased overall with car and would recommend 170 to anybody.
  32. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 11, 2007]
    Happened again this morning - back to the drawing board :(

    At least we've ruled out the EGR valve.
  33. Detector
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    Detector Just waiting for the green light

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    [Jun 11, 2007]
    I'm now getting the Transit treatment every 500 miles so I'm keen to find out if anyone has been cured yet.
  34. Ibis
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    Ibis New Member

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    [Jun 11, 2007]
    Tried an experiment and put Morrisons Fuel in again - now it's happening much more often. Do you always use the same brand of fuel? Maybe worth changing...
    Might be a red herring but worth investistigating.
  35. Ibis
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    Ibis New Member

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    [Jun 11, 2007]
    Or investigating!
  36. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 11, 2007]
    Interesting idea but I'm sure it's too random to be a specific brand of fuel. I tend to use Shell by preference and filled up with a tankful on Saturday night - was fine all day Sunday but not this morning. That said, an intermittent fueling problem would explain a lot of the issues (at least to a non-car-techie like me) as I can imagine it getting noisy and stuttery if there wasn't enough fuel getting into the engine. The fact that it seems to go away when you boot it (at least after a brief stutter) would also suggest that maybe booting it forces the fuel in a bit more vigorously. Is it possible one of the umpteen additives these companies chuck into their fuels is causing the problem? Maybe those who've never had the issue can post what fuel they use for comparison?

    I think we should all keep a log of when the problem happens, together with some key details at the time, such as mileage, engine temperature, fuel levels & brand (at last fill) plus anything else which springs to mind. Maybe we can find a pattern.

    Interestingly, I spoke to the guy at the dealer who's dealing with this issue (hi Andy if you're reading this) who happens to have a 170TDI A4 and had a very similar issue for the very first time himself the other day. Here's hoping that his car shows the problem more regularly, not to be vindictive but just hoping that they'll stand a better chance of finding it on a car which spends most of it's life at the dealer as they can obviously get it into the shop quicker.
  37. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 11, 2007]
    I nearly always fill-up will Shell Diesel and, so far, have not had any problems.

    But next Sunday I will being driving to Germany for a few days, including a visit to Audi in Neckarsulm, and then on to Austria for 10 days so I will no doubt be using all sorts of different makes. I'll let you know if I get any problems. At least the different makes of Diesel will be quite a bit cheaper than in the UK. France = 76.2p, Germany = 80.5p and Austria = 71.3p. Noticeably cheaper than Unleaded as well, France = 85.5p, Germany = 97.3p and Austria = 80.1p.
  38. Ibis
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    Ibis New Member

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    [Jun 11, 2007]
    I will keep a note of the circumstances under which the fault occurs...

    I have loosely been doing that anyway and apart from one occassion the pattern is : - more prevelant with a different brand of fuel ie Morrisons not Shell which seems to cure it except when the tank reaches empty.

    I think it has to be a software issue as it seems that the pre-ignition diesel delivery is being bypassed so the car runs and performs well but sounds like it has 10 year old diesel technology under the bonnet.

    From the trusty Wikipedia:
    "In order to lower engine noise, the engine's electronic control unit can inject a small amount of diesel just before the main injection event ("pilot" injection), thus reducing its explosiveness and vibration, as well as optimising injection timing and quantity for variations in fuel quality, cold starting, and so on. Some advanced common rail fuel systems perform as many as five injections per stroke."

    So it seems the ECU is preventing this action from taking place - now why is that?

    Possibly a faulty sensor as suggested by your dealer - but which one? I suppose only the techys will know that or is it simply a software fault? Have they tried re-flashing your ECU? In which case has anyone with a re-mapped car had the fault - or are the re-maps too new to tell?

    So many questions!
  39. BennyB0Y
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    BennyB0Y The Black Phantom

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    [Jun 12, 2007]
    Go my A3 170 ex-demo. I have the 6-speed manual gearbox and have not reached the 1k mark in my own mileage (have only had it just over a couple of weeks now and there was already 2.5k on the clock). It's great! Previously had a VW 1.9 TDi (90Bhp) MkIII. Served me well for a long, long time... but then it was the straw that broke the camel's back when a mate I hadn't seen for a while said "ain't you had that car for 10,000 years?".... along came the A3 which I always had in mind. If any problems come about I'll shout.
  40. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 12, 2007]
    Runs well?

    Are you saying you're only getting the noise issue and not the stuttery acceleration?

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