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The 170 story so far....

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by thewallboy, Apr 11, 2007.

  1. newbiecrg
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    newbiecrg windsurfer

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    [Apr 26, 2007]
    About fuel consumption, heard the same here it is not diesel-like mpg figures...

    I must say I was not impressed about the 170hp of that TDI engine (and it was before I drove any S3 or TT) the car I test drove was mounted with DSG, I found the 170hp not to be pure-breed... but that might be just the DSG effect on me... I don't know... Was impressed with a friends 320d station in comparison...

    Pedro
    #41
  2. Phil's Barber
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    Phil's Barber Top Gear

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    [May 8, 2007]
    Just gone past 2000 miles in mine now (A4 170 S-Line) and have noticed the "agricultural" engine problem 3/4 times now. It happened today. Noisey on part throttle, noisey when throttle bliped whilst stationary and stuttery/harsh power delivery. Turned off the ignition and restarted straight away and it disappeared. The thing is the car was driven 100+ miles last night at a steady 90/95 so I cannot think that there would be a build up in the DPF.:think:
    #42
  3. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [May 8, 2007]
    Phil, did you get any warnings on the DIS at all?

    Sounds like exactly the same problem I have. Current best guess is that the symptoms are due to the DPF entering a regeneration cycle when it's not actually necessary, due to a faulty sensor. This was reported earlier in this thread but in that case there were warnings on the DIS.

    I've contacted Audi CS about this issue and they've found a technical bulleting which is relevant (sounds like the above issue) and the car is booked in on Monday for investigation. I'll report back with their findings.

    PS. Next time it happens, check if the idle revs are holding at around 1000 rather than the usual 800 and whether there's a slight stutter/pause when blipping the throttle from idle.
    #43
  4. Phil's Barber
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    Phil's Barber Top Gear

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    [May 9, 2007]
    I don't have DIS, but there are no warnings at all. I didn't check the idle speed but I have noticed mine idles at 950rpm under normal (non agricultural) conditions. I will check next time it happens and report back on the idle speed.

    I'll be interested to hear how you get on on Monday.

    One thing I can think may have triggered it yesterday was that just before it started I had held the car on a slope on the clutch for maybe 20 secs max. Probably a red herring but maybe relevant.
    #44
  5. Phil's Barber
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    Phil's Barber Top Gear

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    [May 9, 2007]
    Still no warnings but the problem is there permanently at present. I have restarted several times and the problem goes away but returns as soon as I move off.

    The idle speed is 1000rpm with the problem. Retsart returns idle to 950rpm (which still seems high) and as soon as I move off and stop the idle speed returns to 1000rpm. Something is very wrong here and it is begining to annoy me.

    MPG seems worse than when it was delivered 3 weeks ago too.

    The exhausts were ticking away after I switched off, which may indicate they are at a higher temp than normal.
    #45
  6. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [May 9, 2007]
    Your symptoms sound exactly the same as mine, let's hope they find a resolution on Monday when mine goes in.

    Can I suggest you give Deborah Wood at Audi Customer Services a call on 0800 197 1816. She's been dealing with my problem and so should be aware of it. The more people who report these issues the harder they'll try to resolve it when they realise it's not an isolated issue and they could have an "epidemic" on their hands. Feel free to mention my name and car reg (pm'd to you).
    #46
  7. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [May 9, 2007]
    Ooh crikey,I was warming to the idea of a 170 Passat estate...
    #47
  8. Detector
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    Detector Just waiting for the green light

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    [May 19, 2007]
    Last A3 was 140 DSG, hated the DSG due to delay and I'm damn sure I can change gear quicker than that bloody computer, painfully slow pickup from standstill.

    Now have an 07 A3 170 manual 7k miles (ah, that's better).

    Here's my list and guess what's on it........

    False alarms ie airbag warning, particulate filter warning, wipers working of their own accord, ESP warning light came on, heated rear window turning of a few seconds after turning on, radio not turning off, lumpy idle, noisy engine on light throttle openings, the list is getting longer. these are all one off's, do not repeat themselves apart from lumpy idle and noisy on light throttle, it's done this many times.

    I also have Symphony 3 with multi function wheel but the various functions are completely wrong, Audi say I'm the first to complain.

    I still love it though, the extra BHP really transforms the car, turn the esp off and enjoy.

    So, it looks like Audi definately have an issue with the particulate filter sensor or maybe a software glitch.

    Oh & hello to you all
    #48
  9. steve184
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    steve184 Active Member

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    [May 19, 2007]
    no problems with mine and i think the DSG is great - you will never change gear faster or smoother with a manual - no chance and the figures prove it 8.2 to 60 in the manual, 7.8 with DSG, nearly half a second thats probably equivalent to another 15-20bhp
    #49
  10. Detector
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    Detector Just waiting for the green light

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    [May 19, 2007]
    You are correct if the times are taken from when the car starts rolling but we live in the real world where you want the car to go NOW, not when the electronics decide it's ready, how can I put this in leymans terms:

    1. Put your DSG in any mode you like, get someone to time you, when they start the clock you push your foot to the floor and see how long it takes you to get to 60, you will immediately notice nothing happens whilst the electronics work out what's going on, then when the revs are up a little it'll lurch off the line, if you can get anywhere near what Audi claim then you have a very fast car, remember your timing starts when the clock starts, not when it starts moving.

    2. Now try it with a manual gearbox version and you'll find it gets off the line immediately and you will acheive a faster 0-60 from when the clock started.
    #50
  11. steve184
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    steve184 Active Member

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    [May 19, 2007]
    rubbish - if ur timing 0-60 you time from the point you start to move - which makes the delay relevant. the delays which are relevant are the ones you have with a manual gearbox interupting power flow and changing gear - you cannot do this faster than a DSG - just not possible
    #51
  12. mitch78
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    mitch78 Active Member

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    [May 19, 2007]
    :thumbsup:
    #52
  13. steve184
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    steve184 Active Member

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    [May 20, 2007]
    well fair enough - but my point is the slight delay from pulling off (which i admit there is) but then there is still a fraction of a delay in a manual as you bring the clutch up and load up the tyres manually) is more than absorbed by the time saved by instantanious and non power interupting gearchanges - as i have said before you dont realise how much time/acceleration you waste until you are side by side with a manual
    #53
  14. Nelson_R32
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    Nelson_R32 Member

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    [May 20, 2007]

    particulate filter warning - possibly the car telling you it needs a longer run to go through its regeneration cycle? If you don't take it for a long run (20-30 minutes maybe) then your DPF will give up and its not a warranty concern either!

    wipers working of their own accord - Auto wipers switched on?

    ESP warning light came on - possibly to tell you it was working?

    heated rear window turning of a few seconds after turning on - are you hugely exagerating that by any chance? Automatically switches off after 15 minutes? :)

    noisy engine on light throttle openings - It's a diesel!

    radio not turning off - Gen 2+ radios reqiure you to press and hold the button?

    also have Symphony 3 with multi function wheel but the various functions are completely wrong, Audi say I'm the first to complain. - I assume you refer to the MODE button? This is only for vehicles with phone prep
    #54
  15. newbiecrg
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    newbiecrg windsurfer

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    [May 20, 2007]
    Well, a bit off topic but I'm happy to report that my car works as it is intended to! I'm not a fussy person and understand that all man engineered machines will have niggles. So far I can live with my S3 niggles (creased side bolsters on bucket seats, petrol station "happy hours" lol, little noises in car...)

    Am I enjoying it? For sure, it is not a piece of cristal for display, I take care of it but use it as it was designed... Basic care like services, fluid levels and temperatures, as warming up and cooling down engine are respected... So my car drives beautifully and is no showroom car but is well kept and niggle free. I bought the car to drive not to keep in a stand and adore! Engine revs close to redline when he has to and that's it! after all is an S3 not a 1.0... town bashing supercar!!!

    Pedro

    P.S.: Sorry the off topic but just drive your cars, please, stop with the little fuss if it is the case... so what the protective door plate came with a 1mm scratch that you can spot with a lupe? Just kiding here but you know what I mean... And yes I detail my car! hehe
    #55
  16. Datastorm
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    Datastorm New Member

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    [May 20, 2007]
    Oh no !

    I've done 5500 miles, and I've just witnessed the dread tractor type noise which has been reported here.

    Have DSG, and car started to feel a little lumpy (changing up and down constantly @ 30-35mph. When stationary I noticed it idling at 1000rpm !

    Turn the car off for a couple of mins, then back on, and back to the normal 800rpms. But as soon as I pulled off it sounded like a machine gunner in a concrete pillar box again. No wanrings on the DIS though.

    This is the first time I've noticed this on my car to date, and drive it approx. 20 miles each day urban & extra urban type runs to work.

    Oil warning light came on at 4500miles, and it had used about a litre by this time.

    The engine was cold though tonight since it was only a quick trip to the shops. Will have to see what happens tomorrow on the work run.

    Will keep you posted.
    #56
  17. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [May 21, 2007]
    EH ??
    That's nonsense (the smoothness part)
    Upward changes under load are smooth enough,but that's only a small part of everyday driving.
    Some upchanges can be clunky and downchanges in anything other than 'D' can be real neck-jerking affairs worthy of a learner.
    #57
  18. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [May 21, 2007]
    Oh well,that's the 170 Passat off my list then,seeing as my commute is only 3.5 miles.
    #58
  19. Detector
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    Detector Just waiting for the green light

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    [May 21, 2007]
    Quote from Nelson Wilbury's post

    particulate filter warning - possibly the car telling you it needs a longer run to go through its regeneration cycle? If you don't take it for a long run (20-30 minutes maybe) then your DPF will give up and its not a warranty concern either! I'm doing 30 miles commute at motorway speeds each am /pm

    wipers working of their own accord - Auto wipers switched on? Not fitted

    ESP warning light came on - possibly to tell you it was working? Not that esp warning light, the one that warns you it has a problem !

    heated rear window turning of a few seconds after turning on - are you hugely exagerating that by any chance? Automatically switches off after 15 minutes? :) I've told you a million times I don't exagerate, no it was seconds !

    noisy engine on light throttle openings - It's a diesel! Please refer to agricultural noises in other posts, this isn't a normal diesel sound

    radio not turning off - Gen 2+ radios reqiure you to press and hold the button? I turn off the ignition, lock it, walk away and it's still on.

    also have Symphony 3 with multi function wheel but the various functions are completely wrong, Audi say I'm the first to complain. - I assume you refer to the MODE button? This is only for vehicles with phone prep I'm not refering to phone prepped car although I have also tried one with it fitted and it was the same.

    CD, Roll thumb wheel up to change tracks, this appears to be now reversed, i.e. up is backwards & down is forwards, very confusing.

    Radio, Try using the thumbwheel to change station & it doesn't seem to make sense which station it goes to.

    As an example, stations saved in FM1 all OK, roll thumbwheel & it offers a totally different set of stations, these are not the FM1 saved stations or indeed the FM2 or FMAS saved stations you also get a different display with the next station either side (of it's own choosing)

    The net result is that the left thumbwheel is now functionally useless, which leaves the volume control as the only function operating correctly.

    This, they say is now standard on all Audi's, the instruction manual says otherwise !
    #59
  20. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [May 22, 2007]
    If you do too much urban mileage the DPF will enter a regeneration cycle where it raises the exhaust gas temperature to force the soot to be burned off.

    Apparently there have been cases where this has failed to happen and the filter has become clogged. When this happens the filter has to be replaced but this would be a warranty job as it was a fault that led to this happening, not negligence by the driver.
    #60
  21. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [May 23, 2007]
    FYI peeps, latest from my dealer is they've chatted with Audi CS about it and the current best guess is a problem with the EGR valve or the DPF filter/sensor. They are therefore going to speculatively replace the EGR valve next week to start with and see if it cures the problem.

    Will keep you posted.

    Note that I've also pointed them at this thread to read the discussions so keep it clean please :)
    #61
  22. Eeef
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    Eeef Lord of War

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    [May 24, 2007]
    You should have swapped them for the alloy TT ones, they were silent, and a much better profile to get hold of :)
    #62
  23. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [May 24, 2007]
    I don't get the DPF thing.
    Are they fitted to all diesels now,or just VAG ?
    I don't recall other manufacturers making a big deal of their cars being fitted with DPF's,but they have similar BHP and CO2 figures.
    Is it a failing of the PD engine that it needs a DPF to keep the CO2 down to acceptable levels,compared with a common rail engine ?
    I do note that PD engines seem to be pretty 'dirty'.
    If I'm behind a diesel that's spewing out smoke,chances are it's a VAG PD.
    I was behind one 55 plate Passat that was spewing out so much smoke that I put my fog lights on to take the mickey !
    #63
  24. marklad2020
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    marklad2020 1st Gear

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    [May 24, 2007]
    DFPs have nothing to do with Co2 emissions, but they remove the particulate matter from the exhaust (soot) - the dirty black smoke basically. If you are behind a car with a DPF there will be no smoke and no smell - less smell than a petrol engine I find.

    They have been available on some premium brands for a while now, but I beleive they will become a regulatory requirement in Europe quite soon.

    Mark.
    #64
  25. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [May 24, 2007]
    So if they get blocked,do they affect performance ?
    I had a Cat get blocked/fail in a petrol car once.
    It left the car with all the performance of an asthmatic ant carrying some heavy shopping.
    That was a sudden decrease in performance though,I wouldn't fancy a gradual drop off you may not notice.
    #65
  26. marklad2020
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    marklad2020 1st Gear

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    [May 24, 2007]
    Possibly.. There is a warning light however..
    #66
  27. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [May 24, 2007]
    DPFs also permit straight tailpipes due to the absence of soot :)

    Not sure if the degree of clogging affects performance but they regenerate regularly to keep the levels down. If the DPF becomes fully clogged then it can no longer be regenerated and needs to be replaced and apparently they ain't cheap.

    Not sure what Audi's strategy is for fitting them. On the A3, only the 170 unit has it, the 140 and 1.9TDI do not.

    http://www.audi.co.uk/audi/uk/en2/tools/glossary/engine_driveline/diesel_particulate_filter.html
    #67
  28. marklad2020
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    marklad2020 1st Gear

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    [May 24, 2007]
    I have a 140bhp TDI, which does have the filter. When I brought the car (in Switzerland) there were two engine options: 140 with, and without. Difference in cost would have been about £600.
    #68
  29. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [May 24, 2007]
    Why would you pay extra for the one with ?
    Are there tax advantages or something ?
    #69
  30. roadrunner
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    roadrunner Member

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    [May 25, 2007]
    I still find the fuel consumption disappointing but then again I dont do that many miles mainly cos it spends so much time in the garage.

    The oil cooler gasket leaked and oil contaminated the coolant. Coolant light kept coming on and it's been into Slough Audi 4 times to be resolved. They tell me even the slightest trace of residual oil in the coolant system will set off the warning light. They've flushed it out loads of times and last time kept it 5 days and replaced the rad, hoses, cooland reservoir, sensor, hoses etc. Now seems OK but only time will tell. Even a flicker of a coolant light and that's it.

    Howz about this... took the car in with a quarer tank of fuel and when I collected the car early morning it had zilch left. DIS showed zero range and was coughing as I got to nearest fuel station! Took a bit of screaming down the phone before I felt better!

    The loan car was a 2.0 FSi. I preferred the smoothness of the petrol engine and found it not much heavier on fuel but the performance was noticeably poorer.

    Will see how it goes but I'm right on the tolerance limit with this vehicle and wouldn't recommend one at the moment to anyone else.

    Hmmm, now what was I saying about **** BMW quality!
    #70
  31. emzino
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    emzino Active Member

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    [May 25, 2007]
    Sounds like Audi is having a hit and miss with the DPF Diesels. Hopefully an introduction of new common rail diesels (http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?t=39717) will bring Audi back upto par with the rest (Merc, BMW)... that's IF of course they do such a thing :)
    #71
  32. marklad2020
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    marklad2020 1st Gear

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    [May 25, 2007]
    >>Why would you pay extra for the one with ?
    >>Are there tax advantages or something ?

    Environmental consciousness? And I there is nothing worse than reversing up the drive into your own cloud of stinky oily smoke.
    #72
  33. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [May 25, 2007]
    Hmmm...so it seems to be the same story with the 170 as the 140.
    Luck of the draw as to whether you get a good one or not.
    I was softening towards the 170 engine in a Passat,but I think I'll strike it off the list.
    I played the Audi lottery last time and lost,I don't fancy my chances again !
    #73
  34. roadrunner
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    roadrunner Member

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    [May 25, 2007]
    While you can have problems with any car and especially newish engines, I think you’re making a wise decision. When you’ve had one bad experience you’d feel like a right sucker if you went and got bitten by the same snake a second time.
    #74
  35. coupe-se
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    coupe-se Member

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    [May 25, 2007]
    My 170 now has just over 13k on the clock.

    Engine problems = none at all
    Oil consumption = 1litre at 10k added when light came on
    Mpg with mixed driving = approx 44mpg or about 520 to a tank (aircon always on)
    Strange noises = none

    It is the best diesel engined car I've driven, and really is a performance car. If you want a reasonably economical car that goes bloody quick the TDi 170 is the perfect coice in my opinion.

    I do have other niggles with the car, but thats par for the course with any vehicle these days regardless of purchase value.
    #75
  36. PJLarge
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    PJLarge Member

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    [May 25, 2007]
    I'm seeing approximately the same, I usually get between 510 and 550 miles to a tank. I'm now at 16500 miles and the service countdown has now woken up so it's going in next week. The front tyres are looking decidedly worn though
    #76
  37. Detector
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    Detector Just waiting for the green light

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    [May 25, 2007]
    Just found this posted on a VW Mk5 Forum, sounds familiar.........

    Hi Guys can you help.
    My heap of shoot (oh sorry, I mean my 170 GT) has developed a intermittent noise.
    The noise is coming from the engine, and the only way I can describe it is like this.
    The noise is intermittent, but only once the engine is at normal running temperature. The noise has not hindered the performance, there is no spluttering no exhaust smoke, the car pulls like a dream as it should. The noise is a bad sounding knocking noise. Imagine your engine sounding as it should, and now imagine the sound of an old Transit Van or London Black Taxi, or the old school diesel engines. That is the type of noise I'm getting from low in the rev range under light acceleration, or if I gently rev the engine, or hold the throttle at a constant speed but not under load, you know, like hovering on the throttle.
    Then, just like the noise came, the noise goes. Another way of describing the sound of the noise would be like a knackered cam shaft, but it's not a constant knocking, it's only when I very initially rev the engine or accelerate, you know, that initial take up of engine revs.
    #77
  38. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [May 25, 2007]
    Did you tell the bloke there that Audi owners have found the same problem ?
    It's only fair.
    #78
  39. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [May 25, 2007]
    Definitely sounds like the same issue but he's not got all the symptoms (stuttering acceleration). This is the first I've heard of it on any vehicle other than an A3. Might be worth pointing him at this thread so he can read up.
    #79
  40. Detector
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    Detector Just waiting for the green light

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    [May 25, 2007]
    Will do
    #80

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