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The 170 story so far....

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by thewallboy, Apr 11, 2007.

  1. Ibis
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    Ibis New Member

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    [Sep 5, 2007]
    Vertigo,

    I definitely have EXACTLY the same issues as you including the "burp" when blipping the throttle.
  2. Detector
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    Detector Just waiting for the green light

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    [Sep 6, 2007]
    Vertigo 1,

    I too get the hessitation/hicup when blipping off idle, to confirm, this only occurs when in tractor mode.

    The exhaust temp sensor was mentioned to me by the dealer, his explaination was that it may be 'out of tolerance' but as I had seen others have that part changed I've not bothered to take it in.

    Blipping the throttle doesn't cure the problem for me

    Please keep us all posted
  3. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 6, 2007]
    Well it's back. Software updated and sensor changed so now just a case of waiting until the noise happens again, which I've no doubt it will. Even if (when!) it does happen again they've said to see if it differs in character or frequency at all.

    Have to say the car does actually feel slightly different to drive now - the throttle response is slightly different after the software update. Can't quite put my finger on how but it feels like a slightly different car.
  4. JED
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    JED Member

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    [Sep 7, 2007]
    Vertigo - great news. Could you keep an eye on economy, I'd be interested if anything changes in that regard too...
  5. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 8, 2007]
    Ok, there's good news and bad news.

    First the bad news - it happened again this morning :(

    Now the good news - it's MUCH MUCH more subdued in nature than before! I had all the symptoms again, raised idle, excess noise and slight stuttering but frankly they were around 20-30% of what I usually get. Usually when it happens it's the noise I hear first, cutting through the stereo sound unless I have that really loud. This time the first thing I noticed was the raised idle when I came to a halt - couldn't hear any noise above the radio. Turned the radio off and drove for a bit and, sure enough, it was in "tractor" mode but didn't sound like a tractor!

    Don't get me wrong, the symptoms are still there but they're just very very reduced, to the point where I could happily live with it. Driving along normally with the radio on at a sensible volume, you'd struggle to hear the slight increase in noise tbh.

    I'm now praying that this was a result of the work the dealer have just done and not just an amazing coincidence that it picked this time to be more subdued than ever before. If the next time is similar to this then I'll have real cause for optimism that the problem has been (largely) cured.

    Spoke to the dealer again today and apparently the software update has nothing specifically to do with this problem, it was available so they thought they might as well install it. Apparently the update dates back to 28th May this year! Similarly with the exhaust gas temperature sender, this was supposed to be check and replaced on vehicles which produced a certain type of fault, again not the one I (and you lot) have been having, but they thought they'd replace it anyway.

    Despite this it would appear (pending confirmation from future occurrences) that one of t'other of these modifications has caused this change in behaviour.

    I'll keep you all posted on any more developments :)
  6. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 10, 2007]
    Me again.

    Well I must say I was expecting a bit more of a response to my last post as it did contain some rather important news! You lot all asleep? :)

    Further to this, I've just had an email from a guy off TSN who saw my posts over there on the subject and who was also experiencing the issue, saying he'd had the same exhaust gas sender replaced on his several weeks ago and hasn't had the noise issue since either!!

    Looks like we may be on to something here guys. I suggest you all badger your dealers to get this part replaced and see what it does for you.
  7. JED
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    JED Member

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    [Sep 11, 2007]
    Sorry for the delay Vertigo.

    All I can say is that since the DPF and sensors were replaced, my DPF warning light has not come on once, and that's after 1200 miles. Before it was replaced, it came on six times in 2000 miles!

    Also, I haven't noticed any increase in idle since about 200 miles after it was replaced, so it looks like it could be sorted!

    I just wish some software would come out to slightly improve fuel consumption. The official figures for me A4 170 are BETTER than the 140 and very nearly the same as the 1.9, but I can't get them to be!!!
  8. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 11, 2007]
    Not sure if this update improves economy tbh, only time will tell.

    What I do know is that the 170 seems to be fine when cruising but drinks fuel when accelerating, so urban driving isn't very economical at all (for a diesel) but, once up to motorway cruising speeds it's not that bad, although still noticably worse than the 140. Crusing at 60mph in sixth gives me around 53mpg whereas my old 140 did 60mpg at this speed. The official extra-urban figure from Audi is 61mpg for both the 140 and 170 - not a bloody chance!
  9. Detector
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    Detector Just waiting for the green light

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    [Sep 12, 2007]
    We're all watching & waiting for the post that begins.....

    "Right that's it, I've have enough"

    Call me Mr. Pessimistic :)
  10. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 12, 2007]
    Hopefully the post will be more like "no more noise - woohoo!" :)

    On the subject of economy, it seems very weird lately. Drove to work this morning through urban traffic (about 5 miles and 15 mins) and averaged over 40mpg!
  11. JED
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    JED Member

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    [Sep 12, 2007]
    That sounds interesting!

    What I have found with my 170 A4 is that I can quite easily get around 45mpg on the DIS but it struggles to get any higher. My best has been around 50mpg, but as soon as you doing anything other than coast along, i.e. even with a very light foot, the enconomy drops!

    On exactly the same commute in my old 140 TDI Sportback, I could easily get high 50s and sometimes even 60mpg, but no chance in this thing. I know that the A4 is slightly less economical, but it is much worse.

    I'd be really interesting to hear how the economy goes with the s/w update?
  12. thewallboy
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    thewallboy New Member

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    [Sep 12, 2007]
    I reckon you are spot on Vertigo. I had the "minor" tractor noise (more of a ride on lawn mower) on Sunday and did not really notice, it was only cos we had the windows open that it was heard at all.

    Am seeing dramatically increased mpg as the engine ages. Now averaging 45.8 with a proper mix of London and M4 driving.

    The extra performance over the 140 is way worth the decrease in mpg.
  13. JED
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    JED Member

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    [Sep 13, 2007]
    I averaged 50mpg on my commute this morning, I just wish I could get it close to 55ish as I used to in the 140.
  14. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 13, 2007]
    Assuming this exhaust gas temperature sender is the culprit then my working theory is this:

    The DPF reneration cycle works by raising the exhaust gas temperature significantly to force the particulates in the DPF to burn off. What could be happening is, due to a fault sender, the engine management monitors this process but doesn't think the exhaust is hot enough and so goes a bit berserk trying to raise it even further, causing the noise and stuttering in the process. With the sender replaced and providing correct data, this no longer happens and, whilst the regeneration proceeds as before, the noise is very much subdued.

    Sound plausible?
  15. coupe-se
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    coupe-se Member

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    [Sep 13, 2007]
    Yes ....... and would explain why the majority of us have only heard a very minor noise increase, if at all. The only time I heard my car make 'the noise' was when I had the radio turned off which 99% is normally on.

    Just to add ....... that I've just done 18 and had the oil warning light come on for the 2nd time now. Last time was at about 9k, 1 litre every 9k is not too bad but twice as much as any other car I've ever owned. Another 1k and the DIS says a service is due, added to the fact I'm on the 2nd set of tyres (won't even mention the huge short fall in economy compared to Audi's official figures) and my hatch-back is turning out not exactly economic to run!! A nice car that is bloody quick but it hasn't quite met my expectations.
  16. S3DBW
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    S3DBW Member

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    [Sep 13, 2007]
    Is the software upgrade something that will be applied to all 170's as they come in for service or is it only if you are having specific problems? So far done £9K miles and havn't even seen the regeneration light far less experienced the sort of problems discussed to date, however the economy, while reasonable isn't exactly as quoted, albeit that I am running the quattro version which is a few mpg down on the FWD versions.
  17. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 13, 2007]
    The software updates are done as part of what they call "campaigns" - they don't recall the vehicles specifically but will apply the updates when they have them in for other reasons. Not sure if they'll do it to all vehicles or only ones which are experiencing certain issues. They said the one applied to mine dates back to 23rd May this year (IIRC).

    Regards economy, mine will be on the 'ring in a month's time - let's see just how low we can get the economy then shall we :)
  18. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 13, 2007]
    Another regeneration cycle today and again very little excess noise resulting from it!

    Think we have a winner here guys! :)
  19. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 14, 2007]
    Great news, lets hope it's finally sorted.
  20. RogueElement
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    RogueElement New Member

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    [Sep 15, 2007]
    Glad to hear it

    Hopefully your woes will not happen to me.
  21. steve184
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    steve184 Active Member

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    [Sep 15, 2007]
    Was reading a technical note off the elsawin database, and it seems there could be an explanation as to why some people have probs and some peopel dont - and it cold be linked to the S-tronic gearbox. You see on an S-tronic equipped car the DPF system talks to the gearbox and alters the shift points of the gearbox when in regeneration mode. Of course this doesn't happen automatically in a manual car hence more chance of the DPF getting completely clogged, as the driver may not know its needing clearing out and so wouldnt drive any different than normal. I've done over 2500 miles in my car now and i can quite honestly say its the worst 2500 miles a car can do, ie, nearly all stop start traffic driving, confirmed by an overall mpg of about 32. I have not had the DPF light come one once, as i suspect that because its a an S-tronic, it can maintain the level of soot better than on a manual where it doesnt have control over the way the driver drives - if that makes sense???

    Thats what i reckon anyway!
  22. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 15, 2007]
    My 170 is an S-tronic as well and I've never had any problems or event seen the regeneration light so you may well be right.

    Having said that I do drive in 'tip-tronic' mode nearly all the time so the box has less chance to decide the gear change points. I do tend to leave it in a particular gear longer than the box would in 'D' mode usually changing up at around 3-3500 revs.

    I thought I had read most of the technical items in ElsaWin but I'd missed that one - just found it and had a read - interesting.
  23. motorbikez
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    motorbikez Active Member

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    [Sep 15, 2007]
    My 170 is manual and I 've experienced no problems at all with DPF light coming on or tractor noises.
    Car has done 6500 miles and is now averaging 45 mpg with a marked improvement in economy after 5000 miles.
    Oil consumption nil.
  24. marklad2020
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    marklad2020 1st Gear

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    [Sep 17, 2007]
    Manual DPF too. No problems in 25'000 km. Sometimes I find the engine sounds less than refined, which may be during regeneration, or maybe just when I am being over sensitive. I had never actually thought about it until I started reading this thread.

    I love my DPF - it's great to have a diesel without that smelly exhaust.
  25. JED
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    JED Member

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    [Sep 17, 2007]
    I shouldn't say this here, but I have just been reading the economy figures for the new 120d BMW - incredible, and with 177bhp too. I am very tempted to try one of these.

    The 123d is even better - 204bhp, 400NM and still better economy than the 170 Audi.
  26. coupe-se
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    coupe-se Member

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    [Sep 17, 2007]
    I had a look at a 120d on behalf of my inlaws. The salesman stressed to me that the economy figures were based on driving it like a nun and that REAL figures are actually lower.

    He said the dealership was taking the line telling prospective buyers this due to previous buyers complaining that their cars fell short of the stated economy figures and the dealership was not wanting to give false expectations.

    I thought it was quite refreshing to have a bit honesty from a salesman for a change. :respekt:
  27. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 17, 2007]
    Oodles of cars fall well short of the published figures in reality, it's not just Audi or BMW and, for that matter, not just diesel but petrol also.
  28. ShiftyMac
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    ShiftyMac New Member

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    [Sep 18, 2007]
    Hi guys,

    Management light came on again today and took straight to dealer.

    They have informed me that the DPF Sensor has went faulty (Again !!) and there is another updated sensor available (3rd Generation as mine already had 2nd generation installed as replacement last time.

    I also asked them about software update and they told me that none was available from Audi - Are they telling me lies ??

    Has anyone that has had the updated software flash checked the software version before and after on VAG.Com just to see if you dealer is telling porkies about the software in the hope that they get less hassle from us all if it looks as if they actually doing something about it........

    My car is booked in again for 2 weeks time to get new sensor installed when it goes in for service.

    I will let you know on the outcome..........
  29. trims
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    trims Member

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    [Sep 18, 2007]
    I think Vertigo is closing in on the solution in that the engine management system is too sensitive in triggering DPF recycling, causing the 'tractor syndrome' - which is worse with low grade fuel. Most likely to affect drivers who do a lot of stop / start urban driving (like me) and leading to disappointing mpg figures.

    I just drove to Spa for the Grand Prix, a 910 mile round trip involving high speed dashes to catch Eurotunnel connections, and much queueing in the appalling traffic in and out of the circuit. All fully loaded + luggage. Of course the engine / exhaust were nice and warm throughout. Overall consumption (measured from brimmed tanks) = 40.1 mpg. Not bad for a Quattro, and certainly better than I've been getting in normal driving at home.

    Time to have another chat with those friendly chaps at the Audi garage, along the lines discussed in this thread. Surely Audi must be aware of this by now??

    PS The Sat-Nav was brilliant - we had to pick up friends in Liege on route and drop them off at Charleroi airport (the motorway exit was closed) - we could never have made the various connections required in Belgium without it and still made it to Calais for the Eurotunnel connection. :applaus:
  30. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 18, 2007]
    trims - doesn't look to me like you've read my post numbered #365 - you might want to.

    Basically - my problem is fixed!
  31. RogueElement
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    RogueElement New Member

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    [Sep 18, 2007]
    My DPF warning light came on at 560 miles. Ran it in 4th at 60mph for 10 minutes, didn't go off.

    Stopped and started again 30 minutes later, DPF light off.

    New car hiccup or a sign of things to come?
  32. lucianobacheta
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    lucianobacheta New Member

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    [Sep 18, 2007]
    Had mine for a week and done a 1000 miles. No problems yet, it has mostly been motorway/country lanes and a little bit of stop start in the city, with revs on the highish side. Hopefully it will stay like this..

    Apart from that, love the car, so much better than i expected.
  33. Kris
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    Kris Member

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    [Sep 19, 2007]
    Well as a newbie to this site 10 pages of posts takes some reading although very intersting! My 170 TDI has displayed many symptoms as described although not limp home mode. I do mainly town driving which now reading this thread the cars DPF seems not suited to. I have had the DPF light come on twice in the last month although with some vigorous driving (quite enjoyed that bit) it went off both times after a short time. The car is my first diesel and i still really enjoy driving it and have no regrets buying it. The occasional tractor noises etc i find only a slight annoyance although to be fair (touch wood) I don't seem to have had it quite as bad as some folk. That said, there is no getting away from the fact that the car should be right and what is a good driving experience could be a great one!

    Kris
  34. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 22, 2007]
    Well I've been through a couple more regeneration cycles and the noise is practically non-existent so it certainly looks like the problem is solved.

    Anyone else had any joy with either the update or the exhaust gas temp sender being replaced?
  35. Ibis
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    Ibis New Member

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    [Sep 23, 2007]
    Vertigo...
    Sounds good - mine has been off the road as it was rear-ended but it's back now and...
    So far I have had no symptoms - maybe it's just coincidence but where is the exhaust gas sensor located? I had to have the nearside exhaust replaced (it was bent!).
  36. mister.c.
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    mister.c. Member

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    [Nov 15, 2007]
    For those with a passing interest in the subject - over on seatcupra.net, one or two Leon FR170 owners are finding DPF problems.

    A number of threads but perhaps this on is the most concise as to the extent of the issue, albeit that it was started today so only as the weeks & months progress can the votes and the comments be seen to become a little more representative of FR owners concerns / non concerns

    http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1631985&posted=1#post1631985
  37. motorbikez
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    motorbikez Active Member

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    [Nov 15, 2007]
    I,ve still experienced no problems re DPF
    8,500miles
    ave 44mpg
    Oil use nil
    and still loving it.
  38. Matt
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    Matt Active Member

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    [Nov 15, 2007]
    I've done about 700 miles in my car and so far, touch wood, no DPF light on. Have heard it running louder a couple of times but its not performed any differently.
  39. JED
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    JED Member

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    [Nov 16, 2007]
    Since I had the DPF and sensors replaced I have had the light on jsut once for about 5 seconds. I have noticed the on increase in idle speed but nothing else for the past 4000 miles. Oli use appears to be nil as well.

    However, I would be interested to hear any comments from you guys on how your fuel consumption is going? Over the past few weeks mine had dramatically dropped from around 48 to 50 on the DIS to no more than about 42 to 42? No matter what I do I cannot get it anywhere near what I was getting and that's on exactly the same daily 30 mile commute? I have been told that it is the colder weather but surely it can't affect it this much! I am not sure whether to get it checked out?
  40. Twizzler
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    Twizzler Active Member

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    [Nov 16, 2007]
    I would expect the colder weather to have a significant impact. Consider this; if the normal running temp is 90 and the ambient is 25 the temp gain needed is 65. If the ambient is 0 then the increase needed is 90 degrees - ie approx 50% more. During this warmup period extra fuelling will be provided.

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