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Thatcher's dead...

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by markos72, Apr 8, 2013.

  1. markos72
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    markos72 Active Member

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    #1
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  3. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    Ding Dong the witch is dead!
    #2
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  4. robbiemac
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    robbiemac 'S' Button engaged....

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    that's a shame..... rest in peace..... I'll be in the minority, but hey that's how I like it.
    Dragged this country kicking and screaming into economic boom.....
    #3
  5. Sandra
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    Sandra MODERATOR Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    This is very sad news. She was such an inspiration to many people and gave this country many things to be proud of. R.I.P
    #4
  6. ESD1711
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    ESD1711 Active Member

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    Whats bugged me so far is folk jumping on the 'thank god for that' bandwagon who are barely even old enough to know who she was, never mind much about how the country was run under her power.

    I'm 31 and to be honest, memories of time under Thatcher are blurry even to me..... yet my facebook is currently littered with 20-somethings jumping on the bandwagon.
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  7. ScottD3
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    ScottD3 I want your faulty electronics Supporter

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    I'm 30 and I got the same thing on my facebook.
    even a 19 year old saying the same thing.

    All I can remember her doing is shutting coal mines and the Falklands.
    Apart from that I know nothing else and don't feel I can jump on any bandwagon of her death.

    What did she do, good and bad?
    #6
  8. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    Actually, I'm not sure you will be in the minority. History has a way of allowing events to be seen in a wider context. Margaret Thatcher never shied away from making difficult decisions, even when they were as politically damaging for her as they were economically damaging for others. The 1980s was a divisive decade, during which our country, and many of its citizens, went through extraordinary change, some of them harmful some of them beneficial. As is often the way, the benefits were only seen years after the harm, which was visible immedately.

    That said, the opposing point of view will be vociferous.
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  9. ScottD3
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    ScottD3 I want your faulty electronics Supporter

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  10. robbiemac
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    robbiemac 'S' Button engaged....

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    #9
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  11. ScottD3
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    ScottD3 I want your faulty electronics Supporter

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    That's good.
    She served her country and made some decisions she might not have been happy with but she still served her country.
    Doing any thing like that link is awful I think, unless they was war criminal I guess.

    250 people signed it, I wonder how many of them can remember her time in power with any good clear memory or are just people jumping on what appears to be a short fashionable bandwagon?
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  12. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    I came from a Labour-supporting household, and was a student during her first term as prime minister. This was a period when the left-wing agenda (which I was "meant" to support) was all about fighting "the cuts". No one ever bothered to explain which cuts, just "the cuts". What no one realised at the time was that there weren't any cuts. Public expenditure rose in real terms throughout that first term.

    Unemployment rose dramatically in the early 1980s because of a massive structural shift in Britain's economy that had been shaping up for 50 years or more, and which came to its culmination in the 1980s. For the longest while, governments of both sides had been kicking the can down the road rather than face up to reality. Thatcher confronted all that, in the face of massive political opposition (much of which was on her own side), public vilification and terrorists' attempts to assassinate her.

    Did she make mistakes? Of course she did. Was she pig-headed and stubborn? Of course she was. Was she politically naive? Frequently. Did she have the courage of a lioness and the determination to do what she passionately believed was in the long-term best interests of the country? All day long. Did I like her personally? Not one bit. Did I (secretly, given my family environment) admire her? Definitely

    Here's another thing. My mother to this day argues that I, with my working-class-making-it-to-university background, should be a Labour rather than Conservative supporter (in fact, I've no fixed political allegiance to any party). But as a student between 1980 and 1984, all of my tuition fees were paid in full, and I received a full maintenance grant for the whole of my degree course. Not a student loan or tuition fee debt in sight anywhere. That only came later, under New Labour.
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2013
    #11
  13. gen.heinz guderian
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    gen.heinz guderian Well-Known Member Regional Rep VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    How many Prime ministers these days would send a Task force around the World to defend the Falklands? It would only be done if there was Oil or Gas involved.
    She wasnt called the Iron Lady for nothing.
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  14. nbray67
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    nbray67 Member

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    Being from Yorkshire and seeing Thatcher destroy thousands of life's throughout the Mining community in the early 80's, including family and friends, I can honestly say that I, along with thousands upon thousands of working class people, will not be shedding a tear.
    #13
  15. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    I come from a Durham mining area. Much of the damage you describe lies squarely at the door of a certain Arthur Scargill.
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  16. miw615
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    miw615 Member

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    She wasn't everyones cup of tea, but a true leader who always spoke her mind - shame the spinless leaders we have now are soooooooooooo weak

    RIP - The Iron Lady
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  17. Nilz
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    Nilz Defo worth the wait :)

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    The Iron Lady - RIP
    #16
  18. nbray67
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    nbray67 Member

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    Now that's another discussion entirely. If he was running the country at the time I'd sway that way.
    #17
  19. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    You're right; it is another discussion, but the one can't exist without the other.

    I remember a long conversation I had with an uncle of mine in the late 80s. He was a life-long trade unionist, eventually a high-ranking official in the AUEW (not sure what it's called now), TUC delegate and contemporary of Scargill. You can imagine that with that background, he was no fan of Margaret Thatcher, but the detailed and forensic explanation he gave me as to why the Miners' strike - and the long-term consequences of it - were, in his view, more down to Scargill than Thatcher shocked me to my core.

    His work brought him into close quarters with Scargill many times, sufficient to see at first hand that the man was a poor tactician, even worse strategist, and had no negotiating skills at all, and was consumed by ego. He said that Scargill called the strike at the wrong time (late spring when coal stocks were at an all time high), in the wrong manner (no mandate from the membership), and based on the wrong argument (instead of accepting some mines must close in order to protect the rest, he argued, absurdly, none should ever close). He may not have been running the country at the time, but his over-riding objective in calling the strike was not to save the mines, but to try to bring down the government that was running the country - and, like it or not (I didn't at the time), with a very large mandate.

    My uncle finished the conversation by saying two things. Firstly, he could not have ever imagined that in an argument between a trade unionist and Margaret Thatcher, he would find himself having less sympathy for the trade unionist. Lastly, he said that the last people ever to reconcile themselves to Scargill's role would be the miners and their families. No one, he said, can ever accept that they have been betrayed and brought down by their own.
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2013
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  20. nbray67
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    nbray67 Member

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    Apparently Thatcher has only been in hell 20 mins and has already shut 3 furnaces !!!
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  21. robbiemac
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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    An actual Legend......... she's probably putting lucifer straight on a couple of things anyway
    [​IMG]
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  22. nbray67
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    nbray67 Member

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    Falklands hero??

    Try telling that to the families of the dead servicemen. That war could have, and more importantly, should have been avoided months before it even started if she had listened to her military advisors and acted earlier to the apparent threat that was raised on more than one occasion.
    #21
  23. robbiemac
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    robbiemac 'S' Button engaged....

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    mmmm... in you're opinion. Try and be a proud patriotic British subject and rejoice in her achievements. There's a good lad
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  24. Danny-boy
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    Danny-boy Member

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    Well, I thought she was awesome.

    She made mistakes, but overall I think she had a very positive "reign".

    My thoughts go out to her family.
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  25. robbiemac
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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    Derek Hatton on ITV news just quoted 'wish she'd never been born'........ what a complete moron. Small town girl, from hard working family, brought up through the 2nd world war. Comment's from Hatton are so typical of the guy and the people he represented........ Scouser through and through......
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  26. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    Rust In Peace.
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  27. nbray67
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    nbray67 Member

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    I'm proud and patriotic robbiemac, no question, i'm very proud of our troops (I have family currently serving in the army) that serve and protect us each and every day. Doesn't mean that I agree with going into a war which could of been avoided.
    Not many up here in Yorkshire or Nottinghamshire will share your views that's for sure.
    #26
  28. johnnythepie
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    johnnythepie Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    More balls than the england rugby team.Took no sshhiitt from anyone, and made Britain stand tall again.Called a spade a spade.Not one politician since has come anywhere near her.
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  29. robbiemac
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    robbiemac 'S' Button engaged....

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    fair enough, respect our differences.
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  30. nbray67
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    nbray67 Member

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    No worries, no offence intended towards anyone regardless of opinions and thoughts.
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  31. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    This.
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  32. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    Now that's funny. She'd laugh herself, if only she'd had a sense of humour.
    #31
  33. Artimus
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    Artimus Short Back

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    I don't blame her for smashing the minors unions - they were trying to dictate to Government because Labour allowed them to grow too powerful and Arthur Scargil held the Country to ransom - hands up those who remember the 5 hour power cuts of the Seventies & early Eighties? But the Car industry could have been improved with a (relatively) small investment (Rover Group sold for £1 + £800 million debt, at a time when Ford were spending that much developing one car - the Sierra). Water, Electricity, Gas, Nuclear, Airline & Rail industries would have provided an income for the Country in times of hardship, and we wouldn't be suffering these "austerity" cuts now.

    I'd like a chance to Buy British, but there's nothing to buy anymore.
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  34. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    Despicable little man.
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  35. StateOfPlay
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    StateOfPlay Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    50/50

    For;

    Falklands was a brave political decision.

    Strength to stop the strangle-hold of the Unions was just what the country needed.

    Right to buy your council house was superb, many working class people finally had the chance to own bricks and mortar and pass it on to children.

    Against;

    Poll Tax was just an ill thought out disaster.

    Whilst being great at smashing industry that was on it's way out, she did not do enough to help those communities that had the heart ripped out of them. Some of those communities are still struggling today.

    She didn't do enough to replace the lost housing stock.

    Anyway, I will not celebrate the death of a frail old lady.
    #34
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  36. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    I have no interest in politics, but I am old enough to remember the Thatcher years..

    But this,

    .. and this, summarise my thoughts.
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  37. Jameze
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    Jameze James

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    #36
  38. MBK
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    MBK Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    For:

    I thought one of the girls might have picked this up but as I haven't seen it here I will. One of her biggest plusses must be her impact as a role model for women in power across the world. She was our first and only woman Prime Minister. One tribute reads:

    American President Barack Obama said she showed "our daughters that there is no glass ceiling that can't be shattered".

    I freely admit I'm personally biased as to her positive contribution on the UK. Many of the opportunities in my life from education, to a career that would have been closed to me before her time (not from the right class old chap and all that), she made real social mobility possible for many of my generation and as others have said home ownership. Way more than anything my parents could have imagined in their time.

    Against:

    Yes she made mistakes and no question she became obsessed by power and winning later on but that is a potential pitfall for us all as you can read about in Prof Ian Robertson's excellent book The Winner Effect: How Power Affects Your Brain, the study of a number of world leaders is fascinating.
    #37
  39. robbiemac
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    robbiemac 'S' Button engaged....

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    #38
  40. Gweneira
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    Gweneira Member

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    RIP Maggie, the Iron Lady who showed me, as a female I could achieve whatever I set my mind to if I worked hard enough.
    I find it quite disgusting that people are celebrating her death. It is more than two decades since she was in office. Baroness Thatcher was not an evil tyrant, but an elected leader of our country. There were enough people voting for her in three general elections who believed in her leadership.
    In recent years she was a frail old lady, not everyone will mourn her passing, that goes without saying, but to celebrate??? Really, have we lost all standards and any compassion in this country.
    #39
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  41. nbray67
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    nbray67 Member

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    #40

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