LuisM
Registered User
Good luck! And do tell us here how it's going.
In my case, mentioning the TPI code was determinant.
TFSI 140 COD: vibrations in 2-cyl mode
- Thread starter LuisM
- Start date
Good luck! And do tell us here how it's going.
In my case, mentioning the TPI code was determinant.
I find all this completely baffling.
I wonder if these issues are unique to the Audi version of this engine, since my Golf GT 1.4 ACT (manual) doesn't exhibit any of these symptoms. I've had the Golf for about a year now, and it is the smoothest most refined engine I have ever owned. There is absolutely no audible (or otherwise discernible) vibration of any kind, at any revs, whether in 2 or 4 cyl mode. The transition between 2 and 4 cyl mode is totally smooth, instant and seamless, no matter what you do with the throttle.
LuisM
Registered User
It also happens in the Golf. I know a guy who has a Golf 1.4 ACT and has the vibrations (or used to have them; I think he got a software update). And see these links:
http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/rumble-and-vibrations-golf7-tsi-140-dsg-t4733542.html?page=2
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/1-4-cod-engine.208848/page-2#post-2179198
So it happens both in A3 and Golf; but not in all units. Some have the vibriations, some don't. Or rather, the intensity of the vibrations varies from unit to unit, and in some cases they are so small (or the driver is less sensitive) that they are not felt.
Why do you find it baffling? These issues always happen that way: some units have them, others don't. For example, I keep reading about the TFSI turbo rattle, and my car doesn't have it (or I don't notice it). I've been more lucky with that than with the vibrations.
http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/rumble-and-vibrations-golf7-tsi-140-dsg-t4733542.html?page=2
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/1-4-cod-engine.208848/page-2#post-2179198
So it happens both in A3 and Golf; but not in all units. Some have the vibriations, some don't. Or rather, the intensity of the vibrations varies from unit to unit, and in some cases they are so small (or the driver is less sensitive) that they are not felt.
Why do you find it baffling? These issues always happen that way: some units have them, others don't. For example, I keep reading about the TFSI turbo rattle, and my car doesn't have it (or I don't notice it). I've been more lucky with that than with the vibrations.
I test drove a 1.4 COD A1 and it was perfect, quite the opposite to the A3. It's different software I bet. Then again - some people have these problems and some don't...
Anyway, I booked my car in, and they will take a look at my clunky drivers side seat belt, it also clicks about in the holder but the passenger side one doesn't, so hopefully that can be fixed.
2nd of June was the earliest they had with a courtesy car. Top stars though for the service when I phoned the girl was very understanding, I told her they might not find the update unless they something something TPI code haha. I'm sure they'll find something, it won't leave the garage if they don't i'll refuse to pick it up!
So this update isn't actually officially there, they have to search for it? I'm worrying that they might phone me to say they found nothing when I'm in bed (I work nights) and if they say that to my dad, he won't know what to say. They'll have to wait until I can speak to them in that case... I'm sure they'll research it and find it, as you said your garage would have but their system was down. Should be unlikely my dealer also has problems lol
Anyway, I booked my car in, and they will take a look at my clunky drivers side seat belt, it also clicks about in the holder but the passenger side one doesn't, so hopefully that can be fixed.
2nd of June was the earliest they had with a courtesy car. Top stars though for the service when I phoned the girl was very understanding, I told her they might not find the update unless they something something TPI code haha. I'm sure they'll find something, it won't leave the garage if they don't i'll refuse to pick it up!
So this update isn't actually officially there, they have to search for it? I'm worrying that they might phone me to say they found nothing when I'm in bed (I work nights) and if they say that to my dad, he won't know what to say. They'll have to wait until I can speak to them in that case... I'm sure they'll research it and find it, as you said your garage would have but their system was down. Should be unlikely my dealer also has problems lol
Its not unique to the audi either because there are plenty of owners that do not have this issue, including myself, so what we have are variables in these symptoms being exhibited from one engine to another. Also ecu's do not learn 'driving styles' at all, what happens is that the ecu calibrates itself to information received from various sensors and makes an adjustments. It is a well known forum myth and if this process could be described as 'learning' then it is at a most basic level.
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LuisM
Registered User
When I take the car to my dealer for some fixing, one person from the staff receives me, he puts the car keys in the key reader, we sign the documents etc. At that moment is when you should tell him about the update. Get him to search for it while you are there, so you can guide him, and insist until he finds TPI 2037323/3, issued on May 7th approximately.
The update is official. What I meant is, I got the impression that it's not an update that they will apply to all units, but only if the driver reports the vibrations and jolting problems. The computer won't automatically say your car needs that update; you have to ask for it. At least that was my case.
The update is official. What I meant is, I got the impression that it's not an update that they will apply to all units, but only if the driver reports the vibrations and jolting problems. The computer won't automatically say your car needs that update; you have to ask for it. At least that was my case.
AHHH. That should be fine then, the lady has written down that I want the software update to do with vibrations & jolts from 2 cyl
Another thing I could do, is when I drop the car down (I'll be driving away in a courtesy car) i'll leave a note with her to give to them with the TPI code and the date of release, that would help out I'm sure.
LuisM
Registered User
You could also try to talk with a technical guy when you take the car (ideally do the search for the update with him).
LuisM
Registered User
Having driven 600 km after the software update, I can confirm that the vibrations have greatly diminished. They haven't completely disappeared, but now I notice them less often, and when I do they are much weaker. I'm really happy. The engine is now smoother, and so the car is more pleasurable to drive.
More specific observations following.
More specific observations following.
- The vibrations, as I said, are noticed less often, and when I do notice them they are much less annoying than they used to be.
- The lower limit for cylinder deactivation to work is 1300 rpm, just as before the update.
- The cylinder deactivation pattern may have changed a little. I think that now I don't have to step so hard on the throttle to see the 4 cylinders activated. I'm not sure about this, though, because it's hard to measure.
- Before the update I used to feel a small jolt when changing between 4-cylinder and 2-cylinder mode. Althouth some people complain about this (see above on this thread), in my case it was a minor issue, not annoying generally. I only found it annoying sometimes, when I was on 2 cylinders at around 1300 rpm and I let revs drop below that value (with the ensuing change to 4 cylinders). But that was not a very usual situation. Anyway, after the update the change between 2 and 4 cylinders is less noticeable. I often don't feel it at all, or it's much softer.
- My petrol consumption has dropped a little. Before the update, in a more or less conscious manner, I tried to avoid the conditions that caused the vibrations (rpm between 1300 and 2100 rpm, stepping on the throttle while on 2-cylinder mode). I did so either by stepping harder (to activate all 4 cylinders) or by engaging a lower gear (to increase rpm above 2100), which probably caused greater consumption. I think the now lower consumption is due to the fact that I don't have to avoid those conditions anymore. Although my estimation based on only 600 km is not very reliable, it seems to have been reduced by about 0.3 tenths of a liter per 100 km. I have arrrived to this conclusion comparing with my previous consumption measurements, driving along the same routes. Anyway, I'll need some more tank fillings to confirm this.
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That is good news and I am happy that you now have the performance from the engine you should have had in the first place. Now, like myself and others, you can enjoy ownership of what is a fantastic little engine...
LuisM
Registered User
Thanks, cuke2u! Yes, this has made a great difference on the engine feel. Way smoother now.
LuisM
Registered User
I know many of you report a change in sound between 4- and 2-cylinder mode. I have never noticed it, either before of after the update (I guess I'm not sensitive to that).
That's great news, mine is going in to the garage in 3 days to get this update. Looking forward to it, I'm fed up of the jolting!
It is a fantastic engine though as said, so much power out of a small thing like that, I took it round a track at a charity event hosted by work, a lot of people complimented how fast it went with little noise. Then again they had AMG's and some super cars so I can expect it's quiet!
Anyway, yes mine sounds like it's going to stall when I have my windows open, it sounds like a robot when activating and deactivating.
It is a fantastic engine though as said, so much power out of a small thing like that, I took it round a track at a charity event hosted by work, a lot of people complimented how fast it went with little noise. Then again they had AMG's and some super cars so I can expect it's quiet!
Anyway, yes mine sounds like it's going to stall when I have my windows open, it sounds like a robot when activating and deactivating.
LuisM
Registered User
Just got back with the new software update.
But before I get into that, i'll tell you how it went - I had wrote the TPI code down and attatched it to the key, but I didn't need to. The service advisor had done his research and found it anyway, I think it is now a mandatory update because I had a courtesy car - 1.4 COD A3 Sportback 15 plate. This didn't seem to come into 2 cyl mode often, and when it did was very hardly noticeable. Quite irritating that I think it drove a little better than mine, the clutch felt nicer and it changed gear smoother compared to mine, mine seems to have a notch where if I lift it too fast it jolts the car, but this courtesy car I could change gear very fast - just goes to show they don't make 2 cars the same! Saying that though, mine has a slight gritty noise and feel to the brake pedal, only when pressing it for a moment and then it goes away, it doesn't bother me but i've read this is common, however the 15 plate I had was horrible, the brake pedal had this horrible gritty/grinding feel to it when applying the brakes, for however far down you press it. Glad mine wasn't like that, it'd drive me mad.
Anyway, overall I'm very happy with the service and they also did a few other bits and pieces for me, and the car came back to me in the same condition I gave it them (phew)
I drove it home through town and the same as the 15 plate car I had, it didn't come in 2 cyl mode as much - but, annoyingly mine seems to jolt the odd time if I catch it out with the accelerator in traffic - ok maybe I'm being a bit harsh, because the 15 plate wasn't perfect either, it did jolt just the odd time - and I noticed it vibrate in 3rd gear at 2.1k revs, but when I changed to 4th it stopped, and didn't come back into 2 cyl until I let my foot off quite a bit, but then it was smooth like it was in 4 cyl. I still believe it needs tweaking but it's definitely better than before. I can't understand why the 15 plate though was smoother than mine, but then again my ECU has been reset, so I'm guessing it might take a while to drive 'better' - but it could also be me actually looking out for the vibrations which i didn't in the 15 plate as it wasn't my car, but I did notice 1st gear vibrated in 2 cyl mode just like as I said with mine in 3rd gear. Still needs tweaking I think - i'm just happy Audi are tweaking it and not just ignoring the whole thing. So i'm impressed!
Oh - P.S - up my street in the 15 plate I kept my foot slightly on the throttle in 2nd gear, 2 cyl came on and it didn't seem all that pottery/rattly from the outside (with the window down) but mine still does, can't understand that one... unless it was by sheer luck that I didn't have my foot hard enough down in the courtesy car, because as I said.. it's not mine and I didn't take too much notice to it.
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LuisM
Registered User
Does "15 plate" mean that the car is a 2015 model? Because then it's a s slightly different engine, with 150 bhp power, not 140 like yours and mine. Perhaps they have also changed the clutch and some other things. That would explain the differences you felt.
So the update seems to have been an improvement for you as well. Glad about that. You'll have to drive a few hundred kilometers to be sure. Please tell us your impressions after that!
So the update seems to have been an improvement for you as well. Glad about that. You'll have to drive a few hundred kilometers to be sure. Please tell us your impressions after that!
15 plate meaning 2015 yes. Mine is also 150BHP though. 64 plate registered 30th Dec 2014
LuisM
Registered User
Can you actually get it updated to 150 or are you stuck at 140? Not really fair in my opinionOops. I thought you had a 2014 MY. There goes my theory then
LuisM
Registered User
I don't think you can. There are hardware as well as software changes.
That happens all the time: you buy a car, and next year the engine has been improved, or some options are now included by default... I'm happy with my engine performance anyway; 140 bhp is more than enough for me
That happens all the time: you buy a car, and next year the engine has been improved, or some options are now included by default... I'm happy with my engine performance anyway; 140 bhp is more than enough for me
You can always have it remapped, or fit a tuning box, that will take the engine over the 150ps and give better torque http://www.diesel-performance.co.uk/vehicle-audi_a3_1.4-tfsi-140ps-cod I am contemplating having it at some point.
After a few days driving (have driven the same route 3 times) I can say it is a lot better.
the first drive wasn't so pleasing, it still seemed to be not to what that 15 plate car was, but over the few days (most likely the ECU adjusting) it is way smoother, I only notice jolts the odd time and when I do they aren't half as bad as they were.
For example - on this drive I do, I could notice it jolt perhaps 6 times. Now it's once.
The vibrations do seem to be there slightly, it's mainly noticeable if you leave it in a gear at lower speed, (I noticed it in 1st/2nd) and your doing 2.1k revs it sounds like your going over a rumble strip - I still think they can tweak it and get it better still, and I am confident they will. if they don't however, I won't be too gutted, but I think to prevent the vibrations at higher revs at lower speeds they should lower the max revs it comes in at speed, I mean, personally it shouldn't come in at all in 1st gear. it's 90% better than it was anyway, i've also noticed my MPG improve. It is a lot slicker changing from 2 to 4 cyl, and I rarely notice it's in it. The car feels smoother when accelerating in 4 cyl too, especially when reversing into a parking space. I found mine would vibrate at very low speeds with not much acceleration, now it's perfect it feels like a different car. Very impressed.
Just to say, this update is actually across the board now. I believe when people take their car in for a service or like me, ask for the update they will apply it. My Service advisor told me it was a mandatory update, he didn't even have to search for it, it just came up. So even if you don't notice these vibrations you'll get the update anyway.
- Actually, something i've just remembered. Mine still sounds quite nasty in 2 cyl, that 15 plate sportback sounded a lot less noisy. (This is with the window down, not the noise in the cabin)
I think things they need to consider is that it shouldn't go into 2 cyl at all in 1st gear. half of the time when it does it vibrates very noticeably. People with s-tronic probably won't notice because the car changes gear before it happens, but us with manuals we are too lazy to change to 2nd gear every moment for a second or so before traffic comes to a stop AGAIN! I can't see how 2 cyl will save a lot of fuel in town, because half the time it's coming in and out of it and thats how jolts happen if you counteract it. I hardly ever notice vibrations at 70mph, and thats where I can see it'd save more fuel because it's cruising. I think at lower speeds it just messes about with it. I could be wrong though, because I thought it was bad that it was in 2 cyl mode at 30mph, I always noticed vibrations/jolts but now I hardly do, and the switch between 2 and 4 is a lot better at that speed. So we can only wait to see what happens.
The update has made it so it won't come into 2 cyl mode as often, and it seems as though it doesn't take as much throttle now to make it go back into 4 cyl, but as I said, I think improvements can still be had and I have confidence in them, they'll get it in the end. It's a fantastic engine.
Just a question, when do your cars come into 2 cyl mode from a cold start? I read that it shouldn't start deactivating the cylinders until the engine is warm, I literally drive down the road and it comes into 2 cyl, thats a problem too because I always notice it when it is stone cold. I can't understand why, when it apparently shouldn't do.
the first drive wasn't so pleasing, it still seemed to be not to what that 15 plate car was, but over the few days (most likely the ECU adjusting) it is way smoother, I only notice jolts the odd time and when I do they aren't half as bad as they were.
For example - on this drive I do, I could notice it jolt perhaps 6 times. Now it's once.
The vibrations do seem to be there slightly, it's mainly noticeable if you leave it in a gear at lower speed, (I noticed it in 1st/2nd) and your doing 2.1k revs it sounds like your going over a rumble strip - I still think they can tweak it and get it better still, and I am confident they will. if they don't however, I won't be too gutted, but I think to prevent the vibrations at higher revs at lower speeds they should lower the max revs it comes in at speed, I mean, personally it shouldn't come in at all in 1st gear. it's 90% better than it was anyway, i've also noticed my MPG improve. It is a lot slicker changing from 2 to 4 cyl, and I rarely notice it's in it. The car feels smoother when accelerating in 4 cyl too, especially when reversing into a parking space. I found mine would vibrate at very low speeds with not much acceleration, now it's perfect it feels like a different car. Very impressed.
Just to say, this update is actually across the board now. I believe when people take their car in for a service or like me, ask for the update they will apply it. My Service advisor told me it was a mandatory update, he didn't even have to search for it, it just came up. So even if you don't notice these vibrations you'll get the update anyway.
- Actually, something i've just remembered. Mine still sounds quite nasty in 2 cyl, that 15 plate sportback sounded a lot less noisy. (This is with the window down, not the noise in the cabin)
I think things they need to consider is that it shouldn't go into 2 cyl at all in 1st gear. half of the time when it does it vibrates very noticeably. People with s-tronic probably won't notice because the car changes gear before it happens, but us with manuals we are too lazy to change to 2nd gear every moment for a second or so before traffic comes to a stop AGAIN! I can't see how 2 cyl will save a lot of fuel in town, because half the time it's coming in and out of it and thats how jolts happen if you counteract it. I hardly ever notice vibrations at 70mph, and thats where I can see it'd save more fuel because it's cruising. I think at lower speeds it just messes about with it. I could be wrong though, because I thought it was bad that it was in 2 cyl mode at 30mph, I always noticed vibrations/jolts but now I hardly do, and the switch between 2 and 4 is a lot better at that speed. So we can only wait to see what happens.
The update has made it so it won't come into 2 cyl mode as often, and it seems as though it doesn't take as much throttle now to make it go back into 4 cyl, but as I said, I think improvements can still be had and I have confidence in them, they'll get it in the end. It's a fantastic engine.
Just a question, when do your cars come into 2 cyl mode from a cold start? I read that it shouldn't start deactivating the cylinders until the engine is warm, I literally drive down the road and it comes into 2 cyl, thats a problem too because I always notice it when it is stone cold. I can't understand why, when it apparently shouldn't do.
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LuisM
Registered User
I'm glad you have it working smoothly now.
I see your findings match mine very well. And my general feeling is, like yours, that it's much better now.
The 2-cyl mode only kicks in when the car is warm enough, but that doesn't mean it has to be at the normal service temperature of 90 degree Celsius. In my case it takes about 200 or 300 m (temperature indicator still at the first bar) and it already enters 2-cyl mode.
I see your findings match mine very well. And my general feeling is, like yours, that it's much better now.
The 2-cyl mode only kicks in when the car is warm enough, but that doesn't mean it has to be at the normal service temperature of 90 degree Celsius. In my case it takes about 200 or 300 m (temperature indicator still at the first bar) and it already enters 2-cyl mode.
I hope they don't apply this update automatically as part of a service, seems to me it might make mine worse.
I wouldn't think so mate, it's designed to make it better - it only comes in less often/less throttle for it to come out of 2 cyl - smoother switches between 2 and 4, so I can only say it'd make it better + mines getting better MPG and so is LuisM.
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@cuke2u & @LuisM --- just out of interest, how many miles on the ODO do you two have? Mine is now at 3015. Just wondering if you two have more than me or not, since your engines would be a lot looser than mine if more miles (duh lol)
LuisM
Registered User
No no, I mean the engine itself. 13KM is about 8k miles (awesome googling) so yours has done a little more than mine.
Overall, do you think your engine has changed over the 8k miles? Meaning for the better or has it felt the same as it always has until that update?
LuisM
Registered User
Ah, ok. No, I haven't noticed any changes. The engine is supposed to work slightly better as the first few thousand km/miles pass. They say it will less consumption, and even more acceleration. But I haven't noticed that.
Regarding consumption, it's specially difficult to be sure, because as times passes not only the number of driven kilometers increases, but also seasons change; and ambient temperature has an impact on consumption. Here you can see a graph of my data:
http://www.audisport-iberica.com/foro/topic/318330-recopilacion-consumos/?p=4411416
Vertical axis is liters/100 km. Horizontal axis is date. When I refill the petrol tank (usually when there are 2 or 3 indicator bars still lit; about 600-700 km) I always take note of consumption in counter 2 and accumulated kilometers, and reset the counter. Each bar in the graph thus corresponds to an average over 600-700 km.
Regarding consumption, it's specially difficult to be sure, because as times passes not only the number of driven kilometers increases, but also seasons change; and ambient temperature has an impact on consumption. Here you can see a graph of my data:
http://www.audisport-iberica.com/foro/topic/318330-recopilacion-consumos/?p=4411416
Vertical axis is liters/100 km. Horizontal axis is date. When I refill the petrol tank (usually when there are 2 or 3 indicator bars still lit; about 600-700 km) I always take note of consumption in counter 2 and accumulated kilometers, and reset the counter. Each bar in the graph thus corresponds to an average over 600-700 km.
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Mine has just got to 7k in 18 months of motoring, I'd doubt if it is mileage related as mine has never had a vibration. My average around town mpg is about 42, according to the DIS, not really noticed a change as on a run I can easily exceed 60mpg...
Your joking? - i'll be lucky to get that in town and i've never seen 60mpg on a long run.
Out of interest then - what drive mode do you drive in? Did the car come with Shell Hilux long life oil in? *debatable* but what fuel do you put in - premium or normal/bp/shell?
Thats ****** shocking, I mean - ok mine might not be there yet since i've only got 3k miles... but I can only get about 43mpg on a trip round A roads..
And yours is the saloon? So it's heavier.. mines the 3 door!
I put supermarket fuel in, always have done with all my cars and had good mpg, as for the oil, whatever it comes with. This car gave me better mpg than my 1.6 ecoboost focus, from new as well, I average around 55 on 'A'roads, say from hastings to eastbourne and back and sometimes over 60 if there's no stop start traffic on the a21 until I hit the bypass and the m25/a12. If I cane it a bit more it will drop, as most forced inductions engine do, usually to about the same, on the same runs, as my 2.0l diesel mondeo did. Still considering a remap though I am waiting for a hand held self programming device to come out.
Always auto, tis a manual gearbox though and I think that makes a huge difference in around town stop start traffic.
Ahh yeah, I forgot about auto.. I keep mine in comfort, and before the update I noticed that auto didn't seem to jolt as much. I might try that.
have you driven in dynamic yet? Mine on the dual carriageways in Dynamic likes to jolt a lot if you put your foot down whilst in 2 cyl mode when you want a burst to get into the fast lane.. but that was before the update and I haven't tried since. I did put mine in dynamic though just to see when driving around and didn't like it, it seems to jolt a lot in that mode for me..
have you driven in dynamic yet? Mine on the dual carriageways in Dynamic likes to jolt a lot if you put your foot down whilst in 2 cyl mode when you want a burst to get into the fast lane.. but that was before the update and I haven't tried since. I did put mine in dynamic though just to see when driving around and didn't like it, it seems to jolt a lot in that mode for me..
Yes I have driven the car in dynamic mode and recently but I don't remember any jerking, perhaps I'll try it again....
LuisM
Registered User
My combined town/road average in imperial units is about 40 mpg. On a highway (not sure if that's what you call A road) with low traffic I easily get 48-50 mpg. My car is a hatchback, manual gearbox, no driving modes
