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TDI v's S3

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by noodle, Aug 2, 2005.

  1. rickquattro
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    rickquattro Member

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    [Sep 11, 2005]



    [/ QUOTE ]

    if you want to make comparative times at the pit wall then go ahead - I'm confident that a standard S3 would be quicker than an A3 TDIQ.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Thats exactly it.. egos aside its a comparison.. spot on mate. We may even enjoy ourselves.....
    #81
  2. dickys3
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    dickys3 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 11, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    I have a chipped 2.0TDI and up to 100-120mph anyway, once on the move, the S3 would be going nowhere fast!

    And the Top Gear episode is all well and good, it was one type of car. You just have to look at the MKIV Golf PD150 compared to the 150bhp 1.8T to see that it's not always the case. I was embarrassed many times by them when I had a 1.8T and I'm not an F1 driver but I'm not a bad driver either.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Standard or chipped S3 Mark?
    #82
  3. Timbo
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    Timbo Slowest car ever round the Top Gear track?!?

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    [Sep 11, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    I have a chipped 2.0TDI and up to 100-120mph anyway, once on the move, the S3 would be going nowhere fast!

    [/ QUOTE ]
    In your humble opinion, or you have some sort of proof?!?

    Like timings, and printouts you can scan in and show the class?

    Or is this all seat-of-the-pants dyno? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
    #83
  4. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Sep 12, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Well that hooked em in...


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Would you like me to pass you a spade?
    That hole you've dug yourself is getting larger...


    [ QUOTE ]

    Three consequetive comments from the mods.... LOL

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Aren't you clever...
    We'll see just how clever by your appearance - or otherwise - at Knockhill.

    It's such a shame i'm going to miss it...
    #84
  5. rickquattro
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    rickquattro Member

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    [Sep 12, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]

    I've watched him do 64 second laps in the wet...that's seconds quicker than the Evos, STIs, E46 M3s and C4Ss that were there that day...

    You sure you are ready for that huge portion of humble pie you are lining yourself up for?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    So if David knows his way around ( I have watched Superbikes and BTTC there), its back to the driver topic again surely although I accept your comments on confidence and familiarity with a particular car.

    As for humble pie, Davids comments about objective comparison ring true for me... At the end of the day I do believe that the S3 will be a quicker car. The thing I am curious about is the difference betwen the two, hence following this thread. I don't think it will be too embarrassing!

    We can't check this out on the road, speed comparison there is not on. Who knows what the other driver is doing as we exit a roundabout etc etc. Dyno's charts show a cars potential but can that be exploited in more than a straight line as discussed.

    As interesting would be if the two pilots swapped cars on the track, on the day......The fixed reference point to measure against would then be the driver themselves.
    #85
  6. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Sep 12, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]

    So if David knows his way around ( I have watched Superbikes and BTTC there), its back to the driver topic again surely although I accept your comments on confidence and familiarity with a particular car.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Fair point...but making rash statememts based upon 'taking on' an S3 at Knockhill should have perhaps been made with some insight into the driver and his ability!


    [ QUOTE ]

    As for humble pie, Davids comments about objective comparison ring true for me... At the end of the day I do believe that the S3 will be a quicker car.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    A slightly different view than your comments of the last few days suggested...however...


    [ QUOTE ]

    The thing I am curious about is the difference betwen the two, hence following this thread.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    But as I said...Knockhill is the worst case possible for a TDI driver to use to gauge the performance vs a petrol car of a similar type.
    It's not as easy to drive on the throttle with a diesel - at least I don't find it so - and a track is an environment where a road car that revs will come into it's own.


    [ QUOTE ]

    We can't check this out on the road, speed comparison there is not on. Who knows what the other driver is doing as we exit a roundabout etc etc. Dyno's charts show a cars potential but can that be exploited in more than a straight line as discussed.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Surely the driver that goes well, drives to the virtues of his car...so holding the revs high on a car that revs, or short shifting on a diesel...in this case the driving style at roundabouts etc is dictated by the need to get the engine into the meaty part of the power delivery (versus grip!) at the earliest opportunity...so I could reasonably predict which way a driver is going to take a roundabout based upon his car.

    As for dyno charts...the area under the graph is king. The more the area, the faster tha car. That's just the way it is.
    Now, gearing, grip and weight come into play...but basically if you have a big area under the curve, you will have a quick car on the road.

    In this instance, an S3 has 2000RPM more to play with compared to a TDI...hence the total area should be more - as long as the S3 is running well - as the diesels power and torque tail off quickly...especially true of chipped S3s

    So, if you hold onto all available revs, an S3 will be faster on a flat out drive - as driven on a track...hence my comments about picking your battles!

    On the road, this is not always the case as an S3 can be caught off boost (on a track it is unlikely to be caught like that) whereas a diesel will pull hard from just off idle.

    I know my father's Golf GTTDI will mug my Golf on a roundabout if we are both in 3rd gear....he'll just pull away. Same for 3rd, 4th or 5th gear roll-on's...he'll just go.
    But allow me to drop gears and wind the 16v above 4000RPM, and I'll pull him in.
    With him driving in a typical diesel way, and me keeping the 16v above 4000RPM I can pull away anywhere I want....it's all proportional to the revs I use.

    His car has 130BHP / 220lb-ft...mine 150BHP / 135 lb-ft..according to common diesel missconception his should be faster for everyday driving - and it is. Lazy, short shifting, town driving when you aren't ragging the life out of the car...it's faster. Period.

    But, drive the Golf like a GTI and use the 7000+ revs...and the TDI can't stick with it...that's the area under the graph again.

    Lazy everyday driving, the diesel is faster...true.
    Driving to the strengths of each car...the pertol is still faster.


    [ QUOTE ]

    As interesting would be if the two pilots swapped cars on the track, on the day......The fixed reference point to measure against would then be the driver themselves.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Indeed...I suggest the S3 would be substantially faster in both sets of hands. Lot's so..
    #86
  7. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Sep 12, 2005]
    BTW, we have a TDI PD in the family too...
    One that passed an A3 TDIq out of a set of bends at the hands of my other half...so I'm used to the driving style of decent TDIs!
    #87
  8. rickquattro
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    rickquattro Member

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    [Sep 12, 2005]
    This is getting pretty dull now so this is my last comment on this one....

    I have just printed the thread out and sat down with a pen and a coffee for a while... 22 pages and all... got to get it right...

    [ QUOTE ]


    Fair point...but making rash statememts based upon 'taking on' an S3 at Knockhill


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Can you put my comments to back this up in a quote box please.


    [ QUOTE ]

    A slightly different view than your comments of the last few days suggested...however...


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Please quote me where I said my car was quicker than an S3. Accept the fact that there may be a faster diesel car than your S3 out there. Somewhere. Aberdeen is not quite at the edge of the world but I am sure you can see the edge from there.....


    [ QUOTE ]

    The thing I am curious about is the difference betwen the two, hence following this thread.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Thats about it really from my perspective and the initial run of the thread...


    [ QUOTE ]

    But as I said...Knockhill is the worst case possible......


    [/ QUOTE ]

    But its the only option available, or, how big is your back garden ??


    [ QUOTE ]

    As interesting would be if the two pilots swapped cars on the track, on the day......The fixed reference point to measure against would then be the driver themselves.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    maybe still an option, who knows.


    Re reading all the thread again its clear that the only one trying to promote this into a race on the day is yourself. When I wrote pace, thats what I meant. There is a lot of anecdotal comment on this topic when the two different cars meet on the road.

    Its not often that I use the "c" word but I think its fitting to do so....

    I can just hear Michael Winner on the telly saying

    "Calm down dear, calm down, its only a COMPARISON....."

    David, all being well I look forward to having a natter with you on the day. My only other track day was the Nurburgring with my bike....Maybe you could share your knowledge of the track to help get my lines/times down. There is always stuff to learn.

    I have never shied away from having a go at new things or been fazed by the fact that someone may be better/more experienced/faster. I am however prepared to try by giving things a shot. Its like brussel sprouts, technically the food of the devil but actually not so bad in reality.

    So thats about it on this from me.

    Ess-Three, good luck with the career in politics and Event Promotion, hope the house move goes ok. Its probably about 24 pages to print and check now.

    David, may catch you on the day.

    Later.....
    #88
  9. Mark_N
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    Mark_N Member

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    [Sep 12, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]

    Standard or chipped S3 Mark?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Oh standard S3 for sure... chipped, not a chance.

    To the other question, yes it's only a seat of the pants feel but I have spent quite a few hours behind the wheel of a mate's TT 225 so I have a fair idea of what the engine in an S3 is like and again, I stand by what I say... which is only claiming 70-100/120 there, there bouts that the CHIPPED 2.0TDI would keep up.

    I think the best thing anyone who thinks "oh it's a diesel, get real" needs to have a go in a chipped one. Mid range they are quicker than you'd give them credit for.

    Sadly, as and from this morning, mine is back to 140bhp as I had it turned off due to trading it in for a GTI this week.
    #89
  10. dickys3
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    dickys3 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 12, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]

    Standard or chipped S3 Mark?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Oh standard S3 for sure... chipped, not a chance.

    To the other question, yes it's only a seat of the pants feel but I have spent quite a few hours behind the wheel of a mate's TT 225 so I have a fair idea of what the engine in an S3 is like and again, I stand by what I say... which is only claiming 70-100/120 there, there bouts that the CHIPPED 2.0TDI would keep up.

    I think the best thing anyone who thinks "oh it's a diesel, get real" needs to have a go in a chipped one. Mid range they are quicker than you'd give them credit for.

    Sadly, as and from this morning, mine is back to 140bhp as I had it turned off due to trading it in for a GTI this week.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    GTI... Now your talking... I've been thinking of one of these for myself..... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
    #90
  11. [Sep 12, 2005]
    Have only once been up against an S3 in my chipped tdi..

    side by side at the roundabout, rolling start to joining the empty M27 at whiteley, this was AndyS3's lovely black S3 (chipped to be fair), looong straight sliproad, floored it hard, easy downhill straighline stuff, was perfectly happy with my 110 (kmh of course) at the bottom of the sliproad.. but that S3 was loooong gone!

    I dont feel my car is slow at all, and the way the multitronic keeps the power on max is great, enough to leave most things behind.. but his lighter car with a load more bhp (mine is around 170, though the torque figures are similar) was a good 6-10 car lengths ahead at the bottom of the sliproad, and kept going into the distance.. (though I backed off then in the interest of plod!)

    Yes I have lots of torque, and love the driveability of the tdi, especially for the 32k miles pa i'm doing, and I love the economy.. but I dont reckon any driver would make it keep with an S3..

    That said, my next car WILL be the 3.0tdi A4.., and in similar circumstances that may be a more interesting story. round the bends? not so sure.. have had kit cars, with gokart handling, and I know how well a top handling car will do on the twisties, even without the power the S3 has.

    Just my thoughts!
    #91
  12. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Sep 12, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    This is getting pretty dull now so this is my last comment on this one....


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Thank goodness...I'm bored now...


    [ QUOTE ]

    Accept the fact that there may be a faster diesel car than your S3 out there.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I don't own an S3.

    I do however have a diesel in the fleet.


    [ QUOTE ]

    Aberdeen is not quite at the edge of the world but I am sure you can see the edge from there.....


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I don't live in Aberdeen. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


    [ QUOTE ]

    But its the only option available, or, how big is your back garden ??


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I don't have a back garden. I live in a flat.

    Anyway, back to the original comments about dieseld being real world faster...Knockhill isn't real world. It's a race track...

    Surely a drive through the countryside would reveal more than a flat out blast at a track - which was the point I was trying to get accross.


    [ QUOTE ]

    Re reading all the thread again its clear that the only one trying to promote this into a race on the day is yourself.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm promoting nothing of the sort...I'm not going and hence utterly uninterested.

    I'm trying to prepare you for the inevetable conclusion, that, try to 'pace' an S3 with a TDI at Knockhill...and you won't do quite as well as some comments on this thread would suggest.

    If you want to race, do a hillclimb or sprint...


    [ QUOTE ]

    When I wrote pace, thats what I meant. There is a lot of anecdotal comment on this topic when the two different cars meet on the road.

    Its not often that I use the "c" word but I think its fitting to do so....

    I can just hear Michael Winner on the telly saying

    "Calm down dear, calm down, its only a COMPARISON....."


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Very good...but I'm detecting slightly less bravado in your comments compared to a few days ago... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
    #92
  13. mickey_a6
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    mickey_a6 Member

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    [Sep 12, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Just round at Star Performance last night and a bloke in a A6 3.0 Tdi turned up. Opinion was that it would take a chipped S3 apart....

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Certainly is a quick, quick car (in a refined sort of way, of course, being an A6 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif). Had one as a loan car when mine was in for service. It would certainly would be in the frame to catch a lot of people out....
    #93
  14. neversaydie
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    neversaydie Post Whore

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    [Sep 12, 2005]
    Ok my 2 penth worth.

    S3's are yesterday’s technology and my BMW would urinate on them all - as it is doing right now, outside, with me watching, and not even driving.

    Yes I have left my handbrake off and it is slowly creeping past the parked S3.

    Seriously though this thread is getting rather tedious (the above was me trying to inject more fun - a failed attempt at that!).

    Not that my car is really in this debate and the diesel 1er is far quicker than most VAG Tdi lumps excluding the 3.0TDi (however weight to power of say the A4 3.0TDi in comparison to the weight to power of the light nimble BMW1 is pretty closely matched in straight line performance).

    I would say once remapped my diesel would give a S3 a run for its money easily around a track or on a road or round some twisty (remember its how far the driver wants to push the machinery around a corner that counts - and believe - no fear here, I had mine going sideways at speed and still had a smile on my face).

    I think as most would agree however diesels loose power at the top end - mine for example feels flat at about 135MPH but its gotten past that figure easily down a private stretch as stated by GPS.

    I ran into a Renault Megane 2.0T Sport today on the slip of the M25 towards the A217 - we had some fun and boy are those quick craply made cars! As said above I lost out in the top end figures and he sailed past slowly but gradually.

    For those who don't know the M25 Slip I'm talking about its just over a mile long up hill. Great endurance for the odd sprint.
    #94
  15. mickey_a6
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    mickey_a6 Member

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    [Sep 12, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]


    Anyway, back to the original comments about dieseld being real world faster...Knockhill isn't real world. It's a race track...

    Surely a drive through the countryside would reveal more than a flat out blast at a track - which was the point I was trying to get accross.



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Which brings us neatly back to my original point about real world driving (fast, long distance motorway driving in the example).

    The level of defensiveness exhibited during this thread strongly suggests to me that the diesel engined car may well be about to have its day /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif (although it will be a short one, as we will all be forking compost into the tank within 10 years /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif).
    #95
  16. myrichdad
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    myrichdad Member

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    [Sep 13, 2005]
    Ahhh, and so it goes on...

    Real World.

    Most people's decisions about cars at least start with a financial one. I.e. Can I afford one of those? Or what can I get for £xxk?

    Quick check in Car mag. New A3.

    Here's the similarly priced comparison

    2.0 TFSi Quatty Sport £22470, 31mpg, 0-60 7.0, 146mph, 197bhp, 138 bhp/tonne, 207 lbft.

    2.0 TDI Quatty Sport £21285, 47mpg, 0-60 9.5, 129mpg, 138bhp, 95 bhp/tonne, 236lbft.

    Similar price, Similar handling, petrol faster, diesel more fuel efficient and holds its price slightly better.

    Not comparing a car that begun it's lifecycle 10 years ago with today.

    Has diesel got better, YES. Is it better than petrol - depends what you're after??

    Interested to see the track results.

    Saab are sticking alcohol in their cars in sweden and getting better mpg and power output and it's renewable and while it's growing it consumes CO2 that it will pump back out.....hello world - wake up and smell the wheat field future....fuel cell anyone?

    JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION OF COURSE.

    Got S3 'cos I love it - TDI - probably when I can afford a 911 aswell.
    #96
  17. beaker
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    beaker Member

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    [Sep 13, 2005]
    Still feeling rather smug after my recent run-in with a WRX and its mid-life crisis owner. Came out of a long bend into a queue with me behind him. Once the cars in front had pulled over we were doing about 50. He accelerated but did not pull away from me one inch, until I backed off that is (not saying how fast). We were going up hill at the time, maybe thats the key.

    Got to a roundabout (dual carriageway) and came up alongside him in the outside lane. We both had a clear exit from it and I flew away from him till I got above 80 and then pulled over as I was coming off up ahead. He went belting past shortly after abut the damage was already done.

    Now it may be that he was just **** but I'm sure having a diesel beat your mid-life fling is a hard one to take.

    I reckon its down to a lot of factors, including driver, though I wouldn't say I was particularly quick. Diesel's definitely have a lot of power within a certain range and I think thats why I came out trumps here.
    #97
  18. pflowers
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    pflowers Member

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    [Sep 13, 2005]
    The only way your TDI will keep near a WRX ( even in standard trim ) is if he is in top gear well out of the power band ie: 40 - 50, once he gets up to say 60 -70 he will leave you for dead, either he wasn't trying, his car was a non turbo or was broken, I suspect the former.

    You are right at certain speeds and gears a good diesel will just about keep with a quick petrol car but only if the petrol car is in the wrong gear, any other time the diesel does not stand a chance.

    Why can't people accept that modern diesels are superb, economical, refined and very torquey, but out and out speed and accelleration they are not as fast as a good petrol and most definately not an S3 which was what started this whole thread.

    Example:

    Google search brings up the following.

    Audi S3 0-60 6.5 secs, 30 - 70 6.1 secs, 0 - 100 16.1 secs

    Audi A3 2.0 TDI 0 - 60 9.2 secs, 30 - 70 9.5 secs, 0 - 100 28.6 secs

    BMW 330 d 0 - 60 7.9 secs, 30 - 70 7.9 secs, 0 - 100 22.5 secs.

    Diesels are great but faster than an S3 no way.
    #98
  19. madvw
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    madvw Active Member

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    [Sep 13, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]

    Audi S3 0-60 6.5 secs, 30 - 70 6.1 secs, 0 - 100 16.1 secs

    Audi A3 2.0 TDI 0 - 60 9.2 secs, 30 - 70 9.5 secs, 0 - 100 28.6 secs

    BMW 330 d 0 - 60 7.9 secs, 30 - 70 7.9 secs, 0 - 100 22.5 secs.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    nice one, this clears up all the "feels faster" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/swear.gif. Just cause a car has a higher peak torque across a 2-2.5k rev range (hence the 'faster' feeling), it doesnt make it faster, or necessarily more drivable, it just means your going to be changing gear earlier when you run out of puff.

    of course these rules are re-written when its chipped, but thats the same for any car.

    In addition, i can honestly say i've never heard a single story off any WRX owners saying they've ever had a problem against a turbo diesel..
    #99
  20. DavidR
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    DavidR Active Member

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    [Sep 13, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Audi S3 0-60 6.5 secs, 30 - 70 6.1 secs, 0 - 100 16.1 secs

    Audi A3 2.0 TDI 0 - 60 9.2 secs, 30 - 70 9.5 secs, 0 - 100 28.6 secs

    BMW 330 d 0 - 60 7.9 secs, 30 - 70 7.9 secs, 0 - 100 22.5 secs.

    Diesels are great but faster than an S3 no way.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bravo.gif

    And having just sold an A3 2.0TDI that I owned for a couple of months I can say that it does feel quick, and in real terms it is indeed fairly rapid but the difference between it and the S3 (even in standard 210map) is simply night and day with reference to power, acceleration, cornering, braking and so on....
  21. dickys3
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    dickys3 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 13, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    The only way your TDI will keep near a WRX ( even in standard trim ) is if he is in top gear well out of the power band ie: 40 - 50, once he gets up to say 60 -70 he will leave you for dead, either he wasn't trying, his car was a non turbo or was broken, I suspect the former.

    You are right at certain speeds and gears a good diesel will just about keep with a quick petrol car but only if the petrol car is in the wrong gear, any other time the diesel does not stand a chance.

    Why can't people accept that modern diesels are superb, economical, refined and very torquey, but out and out speed and accelleration they are not as fast as a good petrol and most definately not an S3 which was what started this whole thread.

    Example:

    Google search brings up the following.

    Audi S3 0-60 6.5 secs, 30 - 70 6.1 secs, 0 - 100 16.1 secs

    Audi A3 2.0 TDI 0 - 60 9.2 secs, 30 - 70 9.5 secs, 0 - 100 28.6 secs

    BMW 330 d 0 - 60 7.9 secs, 30 - 70 7.9 secs, 0 - 100 22.5 secs.

    Diesels are great but faster than an S3 no way.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Summed it up quite nicely! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bravo.gif
  22. Mark_N
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    Mark_N Member

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    [Sep 14, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Diesels are great but faster than an S3 no way.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Eh chipped diesels is what we're talking about, keeping up not being faster. And more to the point, at certain speeds only.
  23. beaker
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    beaker Member

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    [Sep 14, 2005]
    Gearing may well have been the problem. I got DSG and its a whole lot easier shifting up on a bend.

    His car may have been broken but I don't think so as it seemed plenty quick to me. He may well have been in the wrong gear and caught napping but thats his problem. I seen him weaving through cars ahead of me before the roundabout so he wasn't going slow.

    I'm not claiming the TDI is faster than a WRX. I have absolutely no doubt that from a standing start it would leave me for dead. I still think that within a small speed range (40 -70) the TDI can hold its own and once the remaps are available things will only get better.

    Theres also the satisfaction of at least getting close to the performance of a lot of petrol cars and knowing that while they might be getting away from you a bit, the mpg figures will be massively different.
  24. nervus
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    nervus Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 14, 2005]
    I don't care about fuel economy as i have plenty of money!
  25. dickys3
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    dickys3 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 14, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    I don't care about fuel economy as i have plenty of money!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Show off ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
  26. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 14, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Diesels are great but faster than an S3 no way.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Eh chipped diesels is what we're talking about, keeping up not being faster. And more to the point, at certain speeds only.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I own a chipped Passat TDI and a Chipped S3, In top gear, the Passat would certainly keep up with my S3(pre chip) between 70-90 if the S3 was in top aswell, but drop a gear and it's bye bye Passat! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif With the S3 in chipped form, the Passat hasn't a chance in performance /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
  27. nervus
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    nervus Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 14, 2005]
    those brakes must be fixed by now jojo?
  28. auroan
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    auroan Active Member

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    [Sep 14, 2005]
    Yeah have to agree my chipped 2.5tdi a4 avant was left for dead the other day by a 51 plate S3, I was giving it everything in a straight line (up a steapish hill between skipton and harrogate (mines rr'd at 215bhp ) and the S3 just drove past me as if I was stood still.
  29. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 14, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    those brakes must be fixed by now jojo?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    They are getting fixed today, need to pick the car up hopefully later /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
  30. The Slug
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    The Slug Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 14, 2005]
    Cant compare a Passat (which is based on the A6) to a S3 big diference in weights. And if it will keep with a S3 prechip then that isnt bad going for a heffer of a car that size
  31. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Sep 14, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Cant compare a Passat (which is based on the A6) to a S3 big diference in weights. And if it will keep with a S3 prechip then that isnt bad going for a heffer of a car that size

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Big difference?

    S3 is 1430-1500Kgs depending on options

    Passat is 1500-1600ish Kgs depending on options and engine & drivetrain

    Not a massive difference really...

    ...and perhaps a TDI Passat will keep with an S3 in top - I don't doubt it - but most people change gear in the S3...and then there's the whole issue of braking, cornering etc...
  32. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 15, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Cant compare a Passat (which is based on the A6) to a S3 big diference in weights. And if it will keep with a S3 prechip then that isnt bad going for a heffer of a car that size

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Big difference?

    S3 is 1430-1500Kgs depending on options

    Passat is 1500-1600ish Kgs depending on options and engine & drivetrain

    Not a massive difference really...

    ...and perhaps a TDI Passat will keep with an S3 in top - I don't doubt it - but most people change gear in the S3...and then there's the whole issue of braking, cornering etc...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yes I just re-read my post, what I meant was drop a gear in the S3, and say goodbye to the Passat in your rear view mirror lol. Anything after 90mph, then S3 would have advantage, as it's geared for a 145mph top end, with my Passat topping out at 126(km) on the clock maxed out, and it took it's time getting there lol.
  33. The Slug
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    The Slug Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 15, 2005]
    who really needs to break the speed limit after all, lol getting to 70mph legaly is gud enought for me
  34. rickquattro
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    rickquattro Member

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    [Sep 15, 2005]
    From Superchips UK site and graphs:

    A6 3.0 TDi Q standard, 216 bhp, 401 Nm, 1800kg
    A6 3.0 TDi Q re mapped 268 bhp, 505 Nm

    S3 Standard, 226 bhp, 295 Nm, 1450 kg
    S3 re mapped 264 bhp, 375 Nm.

    Interesting....
  35. imported_jimbogrey
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    imported_jimbogrey Guest

    [Sep 15, 2005]
    I suppose if you put 4 really fat blokes in the S3 it might just be a contest!
  36. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 15, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    I suppose if you put 4 really fat blokes in the S3 it might just be a contest!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    From my experience, it would corner better with more passengers on board, unless you are on about straight line performance lol. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
  37. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Sep 15, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    From Superchips UK site and graphs:

    A6 3.0 TDi Q standard, 216 bhp, 401 Nm, 1800kg
    A6 3.0 TDi Q re mapped 268 bhp, 505 Nm

    S3 Standard, 226 bhp, 295 Nm, 1450 kg
    S3 re mapped 264 bhp, 375 Nm.

    Interesting....

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Interesting? Not really...
    Unless you also consider rev-range, peak power and torque points, area under the curve and gearing...then it get's far more interesting than posting meaningless figures.

    Personally, comments from someone who's actually run both a modern TDI and S3 back to back, are FAR more revealing...hold on, didn't David post his thoughts? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
  38. rickquattro
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    rickquattro Member

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    [Sep 15, 2005]
    "Well blow my skirt up" a Superchips engineer was heard to say yesterday.

    "All that hard work and programming, the figures just dont tell us anything. I have no idea why we do any sort of measuring. I really cant tell if we are making a difference as to how the cars may perform." /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    He was last seen slitting his wrists and throwing himself in the canal....

    It does help me understand the comments at SP the other evening though. The numbers alone seem to suggest that these two could be closely matched.

    As it would appear that no one has driven both of these (except perhaps the guy at SP), what else do we use to compare? S O P dyno only goes part way to answering the question.

    Number of cup holders? How many packets of noodles fit in the boot? What do we use???

    It would seem that the S3 is more nimble/handles better with 4 fat blokes in it from one persons experience..never seen that one in the tuning/handling thread though the image is quite entertaining I have to admit. Faces, a#ses and bellies squashed against the inside of the glass, wheels scraping gently on the bodywork as it clips the apex of a bend on a mission to the pie shop...fantastic ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/woohoo.gif

    Seriously though..after looking on the Audi site am I right in thinking that the S3 is no longer available as a new car, it isnt listed in this section at all...?

    Wheres that "c" word...

    Anyone actually driven/own/chipped a TDi Q 3.0 ??

    David, You are the stig...your mission etc etc etc
  39. god_thats_quick
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    god_thats_quick Numptie of the highest order

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    [Sep 15, 2005]
    Hi Rick,

    No offence, but...

    1 you are arguing with two of the most respected people on the forum and not making a very sucessful argument.

    2 it is starting to sound like you are unable to actually read other peoples posts!

    3. no one is arguing the a diesel has lots of torque and can in some situations keep up with other cars etc etc.

    4. Glen has tried to say on a number of occasions it's the area under the power / torque graphs that are important if your talking about out and out performance as if a diesel can have 1,000 Nm or torque, but if it's only for 1rpm it's not much help!

    It's only a forum can everyone lighten up!

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dancing.gif

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/MexWave.gif

    good god I come across like a t/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/swear.gifr sometimes!
  40. rickquattro
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    rickquattro Member

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    [Sep 15, 2005]
    Point taken, neck wound in..

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