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TDI v's S3

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by noodle, Aug 2, 2005.

  1. noodle
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    noodle Member

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    [Aug 2, 2005]
    Thought I'd get some opinions:

    My S3's in the stealers at the moment, due to an intermittent knocking in the passenger door, and they've given me a new (05) A3 2.0 TDI to play with.

    I've had it since last Wednesday and I must admit I am starting to like it.....quite a lot, with it's low revving engine and lots of torque.

    You see I'm not a driver who'll rev the engine through the gears during 'normal' driving conditions, unless I'm being pushed /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/fuck_you.gif, so to have a car that pull's very well from about 1.5/2.00 RPM, is very nice, needless to say I've beenmaking fewer gear changes in town, which is nice.

    All in all I am enjoying the car, even though I feel the build quality is not as good as the S3 and it's not nearly as well spec'd.

    Now the dilema. I've been thinking for a while about selling the S3 (could use the ££ right now) and the diesel route could be an option. I've never really thought too much about it, but after having the TDI for the past few day's it's really started to make me think...

    What'd yall think??

    N
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  3. Kevint
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    Kevint Active Member

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    [Aug 2, 2005]
    In a word, No.

    I've had the 2.0TDI and loved it, I've driven the S3 and loved it.

    But if you trade the S3 in for a diesel and want cash to spare, you'll have to go for an older TDI. You won't get the 2.0 and cash in hand.

    Drive some of the older TDI's and see what you think first, but I don't think you'll be quite as happy unless it's a newer TDI.

    Kev.
    #2
  4. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Aug 2, 2005]
    Well I'm enjoying my A4 Avant TDi 130bhp (never thought I'd say that), specifically being unable to get less than 48mpg (twice that of my 2.8Q), and cruising at just under 80mph a staggering 63mpg.
    However I've never driven an S3, but the 2.8Q is 0-60 in 7.2secs so it's no slouch, but you really have to rev it, sweet spot is 5k revs, whereas on the TDi its 2k.
    It completely changes your driving style and your bank balance, with the mileage I do for work I'm making £100 a month just on fuel.
    #3
  5. Kevint
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    Kevint Active Member

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    [Aug 2, 2005]
    How old is the S3 and how many miles?

    Gives me a clue as to what you could get for the money.

    Kev.
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  6. The Slug
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    The Slug Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 3, 2005]
    The 1.9Tdi PD130 engine is just as punchy as the new 2.0Tdi in fact the 1.9 has a more defined turbo kick, whereas the 2.0 has been smoothed out a bit more throughout the rev range and being a 140PS agaisnt the 130PS engines there is very little difference it terms of top end speeds. Go for the A3 TDi Quattro sport model, there great trust me!!
    #5
  7. DAF
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    DAF Member

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    [Aug 3, 2005]
    spot on the slug, my 52plate A3 Tdi is for sale 130bhp. pm anyone £11.250 now. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
    #6
  8. peteA3tdi
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    peteA3tdi Member

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    [Aug 3, 2005]
    having owned both the new A3 2.0tdi and a S3 i must say the S3 is the better car in build and drive, the only down side of the S3 is mpg but smiles per mile more then make up for that
    #7
  9. MikeA3
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    MikeA3 Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 3, 2005]
    Noodle,

    The TDI would be a cheaper car to run, insure etc plus you could always get it tuned, I think AMD can get around 170bhp from the 130 pd engine which is very good for a diesel.

    It will come down to your own requirements, personally, I'd love to own an S3 but at the moment I have to do quite a bit of motorway driving for work so the TDI was my best choice.

    Hope you figure it out mate

    Mike
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  10. MikeA3
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    MikeA3 Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 3, 2005]
    Sorry for double posting but i forgot to add that David R has a 2.0 TDI se advertised in the trading post for £13,250 - might be worth a look depending on your budget
    #9
  11. noodle
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    noodle Member

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    [Aug 3, 2005]
    Thanks for the feedback fella's.

    What a furking dilemma /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif I LOVE the S3, but it's costing me approx. £55 quid in fuel (albeit aptimax!) and that really add's up. I think I could half that with a TDI (suggestions???).

    It might be that I can't swap and get cash in hand, but over a year it'd be a saving. ( I keep telling myself this anyway!!)

    I think it's time to call Audi and see what they've got on their books.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

    Cheers
    N
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  12. JasonM
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    JasonM Member

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    [Aug 3, 2005]
    I to had an S3 for 3 years & 105K miles.

    Now the 2.0tdi sport sportsback.
    (company car tax main reason /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif )

    I'm amazed at how much torque this diesel has, not quite S3 pace though if you catch someone off guard they can be embarassed.
    Much more refined than the 130 bhp varaint, very petrol like IMHO.
    This new chassis is a lot better also.

    Don't agree that the S3 was any better built, though its evident in the cabin with some of the plastics, also miss the locking glovebox.

    I'd say it really depends on how many miles you do a year
    #11
  13. RacingTeatray
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    RacingTeatray Freezing in Moscow

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    [Aug 3, 2005]
    My mother has a 2.0 TDi Sportback and whilst she's not going to be beating me in the 0-60 stakes any time soon, the in-gear shove merges on the indecent and certainly doesn't feel materially slower than that which my S3 provides.

    Pity about the agricultural noise though.

    The S3 may not be better built but the quality of materials in the new A3 ain't what it was in the old model (although it's nowhere near as bad as in the Mk5 Golf).
    #12
  14. noodle
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    noodle Member

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    [Aug 3, 2005]
    I'd agree, I seem to have been pulling away from more cars, without really trying, once at reasonable speeds since I've had the TDI. It might be down to folk not really trying, unlike when thry see a performance car - everyone becomes a race driver against you!

    In the S3 it's an effort to have to change gear from 6th to 4th, in those situations where youe sitting behind a TDI and both floor it at about 60/70.

    I do stick to the comment about build quality though. The TDI just doesn't sound as well build when closing the doors/boot. I like the clunk I get when closing the S3's door and boot, it's somehow very satisfiying. Also the interior just doesn't seem as well put togehter, especially the plastic piano trim, which to me looks very cheap. After driving it for a few hours every day, I've started to push and prod things, and it's just not as tactile. The plastics are harder and the roof/piliar linings are also hard to the touch, unlike the S3, which are a bit softer to the touch.
    Obviously I also prefer the Recaro's in the S3 also, however the seats are very comfortable in the TDI, just not as 'hugging' (if that's a real description!)

    As I've already said, I am enjoying the TDI and will seriously consider a change, so please don't take this as an insult if you do own a TDI, as it's just my observations.

    N
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  15. neversaydie
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    neversaydie Post Whore

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    [Aug 3, 2005]
    I've converted to Diesel, Have to say I'm loving it!
    #14
  16. imported_fingermouse
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    imported_fingermouse Guest

    [Aug 4, 2005]
    "I'd agree, I seem to have been pulling away from more cars, without really trying, once at reasonable speeds since I've had the TDI. It might be down to folk not really trying,"

    or they back off to see wfere they are going :p
    #15
  17. rickquattro
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    rickquattro Member

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    [Aug 4, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Go for the A3 TDi Quattro sport model, there great trust me!!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    If Belgians can get away with Mayo and Chips, wait till you try Quattro, (super) Chips and a splash of diesel sauciness....

    Go on, spoil yourself and be greedy. Have the bloody lot !

    Rick
    #16
  18. neversaydie
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    neversaydie Post Whore

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    [Aug 4, 2005]
    It's not full time Quattro though is it?
    #17
  19. rickquattro
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    rickquattro Member

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    [Aug 4, 2005]
    Its as full time as the S3 one using the same Haldex system.

    But not as completely full time as the other S/RS models...

    But slightly more full time than the BMW 120d...which is half time....
    #18
  20. TDI-line
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    TDI-line Uber Post Whore

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    [Aug 4, 2005]
    Ouch!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
    #19
  21. The Slug
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    The Slug Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 4, 2005]
    same as S3 haldex, but with more torque pumpin thru, it may as well run full time!! lol
    #20
  22. neversaydie
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    neversaydie Post Whore

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    [Aug 4, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Its as full time as the S3 one using the same Haldex system.

    But not as completely full time as the other S/RS models...

    But slightly more full time than the BMW 120d...which is half time....

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeah lol... Its rear wheel drive and it would "half" the time of your performance.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/goofy.gif
    #21
  23. bampy
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    bampy Member

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    [Aug 12, 2005]
    Just throw this thought in for what it's worth.

    I was at a set of lights a week or so ago and on the outside of me a bad boy appeared in his RS Skoda diesel giving me the look and rattling the /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/swear.gif out of his performance diesel.

    Lights went to green, what a disappointment, the bad boy was way behind, and I wasn't trying that hard.

    If you want a performance diesel, there are only three. BMW 330D, 535D and the new A8, the rest are sh*t, no matter what anyone will try to tell you.

    Diesels are good, but not that good. If they were Carlsberg would make one. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/fuck_you.gif
    #22
  24. neversaydie
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    neversaydie Post Whore

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    [Aug 13, 2005]
    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif They are not shi!t

    a) I drive one so I know there good first hand. With a remap it will be much much faster.
    b) it depends on the driver, dont be a nub and pretend you didnt know that.
    c) have a good day, but dont cry when a remaped diesel will out torque you in 5th/6th or keep up with you from the lights.

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
    #23
  25. noodle
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    noodle Member

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    [Aug 13, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]

    I was at a set of lights a week or so ago and on the outside of me a bad boy appeared in his RS Skoda diesel giving me the look and rattling the /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/swear.gif out of his performance diesel.

    Lights went to green, what a disappointment, the bad boy was way behind, and I wasn't trying that hard.

    Diesels are good, but not that

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The RS Fabia 'can' be a furking quick car - I know, as I was rudely made aware a couple of months ago.

    Coming home on a dual carriage way I noticed a car getting nearer 'very' quickly. As It came into full rear view mirrow, I noticed it was a Skoda. Furk this I thought, as the traffic ahead pulled out the way, so I floored it in 6th. He was with me all the way. So after the next lot of traffic cleared, this time it was 6th to 4th. He was still with me at 135 (kph /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angel.gif), although I had pulled a car or two's length away.

    I couldn't believe what had just happend, as at the time I had no idea what sort of Skoda it was, so when I got home I went straight on tinternet to do some research.

    It transpired that it was the Skoda Fabia RS TDI !! I nearly fell out of my chair, so posted some comments on here to get some more information, and it seems that this little poclet rocket can 'easily' be tuned to 200Bhp with massive amounts of Torque.

    So, I have a lot more respect for TDI's now and don't assume that I'll 'blow' them away, should I choose.
    #24
  26. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Aug 13, 2005]
    TDi's are not sh!t cos I have one, and it's not a BMW /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
    #25
  27. DavidR
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    DavidR Active Member

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    [Aug 13, 2005]
    I have spent 2 months with a 2.0TDi (just sold it this morning) and I'm sad to see it go...

    The new A3 is a better car than the old A/S3 in terms of ergonomics, perceived quality and refinement. The 2.0TDI always feels very quick and powerful at low rpm, but really fades at the top end and I guess a rechip would be a good option. The MPG is amazing but as with most cars I own after a while the initially subdued diesel engine gets more noticeable as I tune in to it. It's no drivers car but as a comfortable efficient form of transport (i.e. my 90 mile per day mway work commute) it is ideal.

    To swap from an S3 to an A3D is to swap from completely different cars and you'd have to feel comfortable that the priorities have changed... A better (but less economical move) would be to an A3 3.2... Very quick, very smooth, reasonable handling and exceptionally subtle... My old man picked one up last week and it's very impressive /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
    #26
  28. The Slug
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    The Slug Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 15, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]


    It transpired that it was the Skoda Fabia RS TDI !! I nearly fell out of my chair, so posted some comments on here to get some more information, and it seems that this little poclet rocket can 'easily' be tuned to 200Bhp with massive amounts of Torque.

    So, I have a lot more respect for TDI's now and don't assume that I'll 'blow' them away, should I choose.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well said, and so every1 should too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ok.gif
    #27
  29. bampy
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    bampy Member

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    [Aug 26, 2005]
    You rattle lover's seem to be missing the point. You won't pass a S3 in 5th and 6th on torque simply because to beat you and beat you easily all a S3 driver has to do is drop a gear or so and then leave you for dead.

    Diesels are good if they are infront of you for one very good reason-the driver behind the diesel can't drive in all the black smoke you guys pump out.

    If you watch one of the last Top Gear programmes it proved once and for all diesels not matter how good they are, will never be as fast as the equivalent petrol car. They put the Stig in the petrol 535 which is not over powered for it's size and Clarkson in the 535 diesel which has more torque than the new M3 and Clarkson could not pass the Stig.

    When you look at the layout of the Top gear race track with all it's bends, the diesel car should have beaten the petrol hands down. But it didn't. So forget your torque, in a straight race it meaningless. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif
    #28
  30. neversaydie
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    neversaydie Post Whore

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    [Aug 26, 2005]
    to put all of what you just wrote into perspective.

    The new Seat 2.0T has 185BHP VS the BMW 120d 163BHP - what do you think is faster?

    Enough said!

    S3's really are not that fast unless there chiped up like Fasteddies, now me and him had a little race around a stretch of our private circular drive, of course he was wasting me, but he wasnt exactly loosing me either.

    A standard S3 I can honestly say I would not be at all suprised if was (or not) to drop a gear and keep up with your 1.8T 210/225BHP.
    #29
  31. bampy
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    bampy Member

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    [Aug 26, 2005]
    Just an aside I am very happy at the moment as this is my first post that has caught fire, fantastic.

    While I am on my soap box, compare like with like.

    The latest diesels are very quick and powerful, as the last post says nearing 200BHP the current S3 has been around a long time. If they produce the new one with the alledged 320 BHP, we can then have another discussion with the rattlers on which is the fastest the 200BHP smokers or the new S3.

    I know which car my money would be on. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif
    #30
  32. chasdrury
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    [Aug 28, 2005]
    "If you watch one of the last Top Gear programmes it proved once and for all diesels not matter how good they are, will never be as fast as the equivalent petrol car. They put the Stig in the petrol 535 which is not over powered for it's size and Clarkson in the 535 diesel which has more torque than the new M3 and Clarkson could not pass the Stig."

    The Stig was in an equivalent V8 engined 5 series, clarkson said, which rules out it being the 535 - i think you will find that the stig was in a 540 or 545.

    And in the Audis, my dad has a 3.0TDi A8 and it is considerably quicker than the 3 litre petrol

    Charles
    #31
  33. myrichdad
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    [Aug 28, 2005]
    I didn't see that particular top gear, but the car is largely irrelevant isn't it?

    The charactersitics of diesels engines are fundamentally different to petrol, better specific fuel consumption, and noisier due to method of fuel detonation.

    While the standard is rising on power output and torque is awesome and has always been noticeable better, from a performance point of view the current answer is still petrol.

    Just my opinion, but if you don't believe me ask the senior engineers at any of the following;

    Ferrari, Lamborghini, Pagani, Maserati, Porcsche.

    No diesel supercars yet.......

    But WTF would I know, I'm just a humble contractor trying to earn an honest shilling.....as a friend of mine says. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
    #32
  34. bampy
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    bampy Member

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    [Aug 28, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    "If you watch one of the last Top Gear programmes it proved once and for all diesels not matter how good they are, will never be as fast as the equivalent petrol car. They put the Stig in the petrol 535 which is not over powered for it's size and Clarkson in the 535 diesel which has more torque than the new M3 and Clarkson could not pass the Stig."

    The Stig was in an equivalent V8 engined 5 series, clarkson said, which rules out it being the 535 - i think you will find that the stig was in a 540 or 545.

    And in the Audis, my dad has a 3.0TDi A8 and it is considerably quicker than the 3 litre petrol

    Charles

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You are right about the engine size, but all the oil burners go on about is torque and the 535d had it in bucket loads over the petrol car and it could not beat it!

    3 litre petrol in an A8, won't even both to test drive it, as it is so underpowered.

    The point of this topic was that no matter how you spice up a diesel, at the current level of technology, they are no match for the petrol unit. In my last post I almost said that when diesels are that good they would be found in a Porsche, but someone else got here before me.

    As for the guy that called me a "nud" whatever that means, sums up your average performance diesel driver. Does he seriously think that your average driver if racing an oil burner is going to be driving around in top gear just waiting to be passed by one of these fools. You drive to your car's strengths and in a diesel that's fuel consumption not performance.

    As he says he'd like to meet up with me and torque his way past me, I think he got his spelling wrong, perhaps he meant talk. We'll meet one day and he will experienced the back end of my S3 disappearing into the distance. As he is changing up at a huge 4000 rpm I will still be in the middle of the power band waving him goodbye.

    As I said in my first post, the Skoda RS which is supposed to be a quick diesel was so slow, it wasn't even a race and the badboy rattler gave up.
    #33
  35. dgannon69
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    [Aug 28, 2005]
    i remember jag were going to bring out the RD6 which was a 3litre V6 twin turbo diesel.

    0-60 in 6 seconds i think. thats getting towards been a supercar...
    #34
  36. The Slug
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    The Slug Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 31, 2005]
    why does it always seem to be straight line "racing", u try getting away from a tdi round country lanes with real tight bends and bumpy nakkered roads, most will keep up with a petrol eq.

    Oh another good point to make is 40+ to the gallon with fast pace fun, you cant beat it soz MR.20mpg, lmao
    #35
  37. mickey_a6
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    [Sep 1, 2005]
    "Real World" driving is always different from the paper statistics - depends on many different factors (driver skill, gear ratios, suspension setup, tyre size/pressure, etc. etc. you know the list). I never thought I would ever buy a diesel car, but even the "lowly" 1.9TDI in an A6 is a mightily impressive engine and constantly surprises me. Even in the A6 which is a big, fairly heavy car.

    I have embarassed many allegedly more "powerful" cars - example: during recent trip to France, hooked up with a Honda Accord Type R with UK plates - lets not forget this cost £24k new and is a 210 bhp car (130 for my A6), but only has 158 lb/ft torque (210 for A6). Over 100 miles of fast progress, quality autoroute driving there was absolutely no way he could get away from me. In any straight stretches, sure he could make a bit of progress, but the minute we go up hill, or hit traffic he's going backwards as fast as I'm going forwards and I could pass him easily. So at the end of the 100 miles when I have to turn off, we're still together - torque definitely talks the talk!! (and we were getting more than 40mpg /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif). For sure, at the traffic lights Grand Prix he would blow me away (7 sec 0-62 vs 10), but that's not real world driving.
    #36
  38. bampy
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    [Sep 2, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    "Real World" driving is always different from the paper statistics - depends on many different factors (driver skill, gear ratios, suspension setup, tyre size/pressure, etc. etc. you know the list). I never thought I would ever buy a diesel car, but even the "lowly" 1.9TDI in an A6 is a mightily impressive engine and constantly surprises me. Even in the A6 which is a big, fairly heavy car.

    I have embarassed many allegedly more "powerful" cars - example: during recent trip to France, hooked up with a Honda Accord Type R with UK plates - lets not forget this cost £24k new and is a 210 bhp car (130 for my A6), but only has 158 lb/ft torque (210 for A6). Over 100 miles of fast progress, quality autoroute driving there was absolutely no way he could get away from me. In any straight stretches, sure he could make a bit of progress, but the minute we go up hill, or hit traffic he's going backwards as fast as I'm going forwards and I could pass him easily. So at the end of the 100 miles when I have to turn off, we're still together - torque definitely talks the talk!! (and we were getting more than 40mpg /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif). For sure, at the traffic lights Grand Prix he would blow me away (7 sec 0-62 vs 10), but that's not real world driving.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    As I started this thread I suppose I had better answer this one.

    In the real world, the guy in the Honda probably wasn't racing. If he was you would have been left behind, in that there is no doubt.

    You mention that in traffic you just reeled him in. maybe he was being sensible and you were driving like a clown.

    I have raced one of the best diesels the Skoda RS. Forget torque, diesel is just not up to it. My S3 has been chipped and shows about 244bhp but it has nearly 300lbs/ft torque.

    You rattling , smoking drivers are breathing to much of the smoke you are blowing out of your back end, you will never ever get near us in the tractor that you drive.

    Face reality, if you could afford a S3 you would be driving one, not watching your pennies and trying to convince the great unwashed that a diesel is fast!
    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif
    #37
  39. Timbo
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    Timbo Slowest car ever round the Top Gear track?!?

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    [Sep 3, 2005]
    Playing devils advocate, the Skoda vRS isn't a particularly fast car Bampy (I presume you're talking about the Fabia?)

    0-60: 9.3 - Woooo!

    * Yaaawn!! *

    And I know it's not all about 0-60 speeds, but if you didn't p*ss all over him in a chipped S3 I'd have your doctor look at your right foot for problems. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    So... there are still plent of RWYB days left at the 'Pod this year if people want to stop posturing and start putting their money where their mouths are!

    I'll come along with my 1.8T... even though it's a b*gger to get off the line with no traction control...
    #38
  40. bampy
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    bampy Member

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    [Sep 3, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Playing devils advocate, the Skoda vRS isn't a particularly fast car Bampy (I presume you're talking about the Fabia?)

    0-60: 9.3 - Woooo!

    * Yaaawn!! *

    And I know it's not all about 0-60 speeds, but if you didn't p*ss all over him in a chipped S3 I'd have your doctor look at your right foot for problems. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    So... there are still plent of RWYB days left at the 'Pod this year if people want to stop posturing and start putting their money where their mouths are!

    I'll come along with my 1.8T... even though it's a b*gger to get off the line with no traction control...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's the point, the rattlers think they have a fast car, in this thread they say they will torque past a S3 pure fantasy or stupidity, the latter I think.

    Diesels are good cars, but not performance cars.
    #39
  41. rickquattro
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    rickquattro Member

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    [Sep 4, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Thought I'd get some opinions:

    My S3's in the stealers at the moment, due to an intermittent knocking in the passenger door,

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well let the bank manager in to talk about your petrol soaked overdraft then !

    You got a load of opinions but it seems to boil down to speed in this thread.

    Yep. I could have bought an S3. Cash. I didn't, and made a choice on an A3 Tdi Q instead. And I love it, rattler that I am. You made your choice and you seem happy with that. Or are you? Reading the first post you made here, its not so clear cut.......

    Go on, yo know you want the diesel but the marketing won. Thats why Lambo cant make a diesel. Marketing also has them making Tractors.

    Now off you go on the agricultural angle LOL....
    #40

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