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TDI Tuning

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by deano670, Feb 24, 2010.

  1. deano670
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    deano670 Too Much Hype

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    [Feb 24, 2010]
    Just looking at tuning by ABT for the 140 and 170 A3 tdi's.

    Silly question really - does the tuning effect your mpg? I read that tuning can actually improve mpg 'is this correct'? :think:
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  3. dunk
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    dunk Member

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    [Feb 24, 2010]
    =for the same driving style, there is likely to be no difference in mpg, but if you now have 200 or more hp and hoof it a lot your mpg may go down quite a bit

    my pd140 did 42-45 average before tuning
    remap plus hybrid turbo plus exhaust and decat gives 230-240hp and i now get 42-43 mpg ave
    #2
  4. 4NT
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    4NT Terminal Douche Bag!

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    [Feb 24, 2010]
    As with Dunks comment, I found similar mpg post remap (I didn't go as far with zorst and turbo) but never batter and found I drove it harder due to the fact it was willing me to give it some, this meant figures were about 2 or 3 mpg lower overall. Tricky, can you drive sensible to get better mpg???
    #3
  5. smudge_don
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    smudge_don Active Member

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    [Feb 24, 2010]
    Most remaps actually now increase performance as well as MPG
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  6. 4NT
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    4NT Terminal Douche Bag!

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    [Feb 24, 2010]
    Smudge Don, have you decvided on a colour or fitted those new wheels yet??
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  7. deano670
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    deano670 Too Much Hype

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    [Feb 24, 2010]
    cheers guys - interesting figures. 240bhp - bloody hell! what performance are you getting from that??

    A quick note - the new 2010 tdi's 'dont they have a new drive train' and do they now get better mpg than the 2009?
    #6
  8. b19ctr
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    b19ctr The King of Cannock

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    [Feb 24, 2010]
    out of interest how much are the hybrid turbo's?
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  9. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 24, 2010]
    About £550 on exchange so I've been told!
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  10. devonmikeyboy
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    devonmikeyboy As far from JBS as possible !

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    [Feb 24, 2010]
    It`s £550 to get your existing turbo made into a hybrid from companies like CR turbos. £1100 + for a full new unit which is a better way to go as many recon hybrids have since blown up which is why Turbo Dynamics don`t do recon anymore just new.
    If somebody want a remap to increase mpg most companies sale such maps but they don`t claim much higher bhp normally. Most remaps are done for performance and as such most people who buy remaps tend to be slightly heavy on the accelerator so if the new performance map did actually increase mpg is gets losts while the driver is grinning driving around the place faster then before.
    #9
  11. akash_sky1
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    akash_sky1 Active Member

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    [Feb 24, 2010]
    Just re-read your write up there ( had read it a long time a go nearer to when it was originally done).
    Nice power & torque there, but as a daily driver does your car not feel laggy as hell? As I see the torque curve only really shoots up at 3500ish rpm. also what clutch u using?
    #10
  12. rickyquicky
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    rickyquicky Member

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    [Feb 24, 2010]
    A remap wont make any real difference to MPG even if you managed to drive as sensibly as before. The problem with a remap is the heavy right foot afterwards!

    If you drive sensibly you will definately be in the region of original MPG though before remap.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2010
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  13. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 24, 2010]
    If thats the case then no chance of me going down the hyrbid route! :no:
    #12
  14. waqi
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    waqi Member

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    [Feb 25, 2010]
    The idea of wanting to go hybrid makes me wanna save up, but then you gotta look at up rating clutch :sadlike: maybe one day though!
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  15. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 25, 2010]
    I have DSG, so I only need to do software, plus I already have turboback exhaust and brakes!
    #14
  16. dunk
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    dunk Member

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    [Feb 25, 2010]
    my first turbodynamics exchange turbo blew up after a few thousand miles - td blamed the tuner, but they had also recommended them

    if you go down this route use a 1-stop shop- - fit, supply turbo, do mapping etc
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  17. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 25, 2010]
    Good advice dunk..
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  18. b19ctr
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    b19ctr The King of Cannock

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    [Feb 25, 2010]
    where does the 170bhp turbo stand in relation to a hybrid as its a bigger/different turbo to the 140 isn't it? I was told the 170 with the dpf deletion and full Milltek and remap could be looking at over 210bhp?
    #17
  19. Scott
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    Scott Well-Known Member

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    [Feb 25, 2010]
    In that case it may well be better upgrading from the 140 turbo to 170 (and not hybrid) for piece of mind, if that's possible
    #18
  20. devonmikeyboy
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    devonmikeyboy As far from JBS as possible !

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    [Feb 25, 2010]
    The orginal map wasn`t great but you just learn to drive in the power band. After a few tweaks and some mapping end result was around 320-330 bhp and 490lb torque.

    [​IMG]
    #19
  21. devonmikeyboy
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    devonmikeyboy As far from JBS as possible !

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    [Feb 25, 2010]
    The PD170 turbo is a GT1749VC so the internal wheels are the same size just a slightly different design and i think i an right in saying the exhaust outlet is larger. The manifold is deffinately a different design so it will yake some fabrication work to fit the exhaust etc. Basically a no brainer unless you get a new turbo for free, just get a hybrid PD140 turbo if you only want 230ish bhp.
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  22. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 25, 2010]
    So basically, hybrid is for people who have DEEEEP pockets, especially for manual boys as they have to get clutch as well. I worry about 240bhp going through the front wheels, as my car is running roughly 185bhp and about 310ft-lb and it wheel spins enough, wonder if LSD would help??......I'm sure Mikey will be along to answer...
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  23. devonmikeyboy
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    devonmikeyboy As far from JBS as possible !

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    [Feb 25, 2010]
    An LSD would help put the power down but the max torque rating of your DSG box is 310lb which is the real limiting facture when tuning your car. I know about the uprated software but that still doesn`t change the torque rating of the DSG clutch plates.
    #22
  24. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 25, 2010]
    Really, as dunk's was running 360ft-lb and was fine, and Awesome GTIs MK5 Big Turbo was running 370ft-lb that was for 20,000 miles without a single problem, so are you sure on that Mikey?
    #23
  25. sijones
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    sijones Member VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 25, 2010]
    Mine's still on the standard clutch and it's been ok (hybrid and new map)... although it will prob go now av put this!

    You do have to drive differently tho, and keep in the power band for it to accelerate hard, general keeping up in traffic aint bad below 2500rpm except first gear really dont have much poke unless you push it hard.

    Turbo Solutions do hybrids on exchange basis, think it was £600 inc del, and as for worrying about it being exchange, they said a new one is as much likely to blow as a recon as they put all new insides in them, just depends how much power you want and how hard you work the turbo...
    #24
  26. akash_sky1
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    akash_sky1 Active Member

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    [Feb 25, 2010]
    thats the whole reason I went for a 2.0 TFSI over a PD170. As well as the additional cost to buy ( about 2500-300k although never saw any PD170 Quattro Sportback as nice as mine) you need thousands£££ to get it up to really rapid performance levels unlike the petrol. Over 190 bhp and your looking at hybrid turbo, new IC & hoses, and new clutch, and if yours is fwd then a LSD to put even a smidgen of the torque down..just shitloads of cash. those thousands would take 10s of 1000 of miles to recoup in saved fuel costs.
    Although mine only does about 32 mpg on ave and 38 at best ( which is not bad at all) and takes super, I reckon i've still saved loads in the long term.
    #25
  27. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 25, 2010]
    To be fair, my car is quick enough for me on a daily basis. Mine now is pushing 185bhp with 310ft-lb, low insurance, £150 tax for the year, even with the odd blast hear and there I still see 450miles on average from £60 V-Power diesel. I had the choice of quattro or DSG, and for me, you need big power to warrant quattro as you lose so much the drivetrain. I love DSG. Mine is FWD and still handles pretty well to be honest, as I have ARBs and Coilovers. My friends 2.0TFSI is pushing 270bhp and was very very quick, was really impressed with the engine!
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  28. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 25, 2010]
    To be fair, my car is quick enough for me on a daily basis. Mine now is pushing 185bhp with 310ft-lb, low insurance, £150 tax for the year, even with the odd blast hear and there I still see 450miles on average from £60 V-Power diesel. I had the choice of quattro or DSG, and for me, you need big power to warrant quattro as you lose so much through the drivetrain. I love DSG. Mine is FWD and still handles pretty well to be honest, as I have ARBs and Coilovers. My friends 2.0TFSI is pushing 270bhp and was very very quick, was really impressed with the engine!

    I'm gonna pass on going hybrid and get a re-trim and new rims :wub:
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2010
    #27
  29. Sarah's A3
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    Sarah's A3 MODERATOR V6 S3 Hybrid Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 25, 2010]
    I remapped my VW golf 130 tdi and I got great increase in power and mpg. Heavy right foot for a while but it calmed down lol. Sadly when I remapped my A6 2.0 tdi I got a shed load of problems. Think the boost must have been too much as it went through 3 turbos!!!! Very costly! but saying that, the mpg was good lol.
    #28
  30. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 25, 2010]
    Who did the mapping Sarah?
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  31. waqi
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    waqi Member

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    [Feb 26, 2010]
    Whore :moa:
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  32. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 26, 2010]
    [​IMG]

    :laugh:
    #31
  33. dunk
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    dunk Member

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    [Feb 26, 2010]
    theres a lot of stuff here about things you do NOT need to get a big power 2.0tdi

    if its dsg then its good for 390-400lb ft without any upgrades at all - there are plenty of v6 turbo tuners who use this as the sensible limit
    you dont need an exhaust / filter but a decat and rear box will help reduce spool-up delay
    there is no limit to the amount of power for fwd, but the torque can give a lot of problems - understeer, torque steer etc
    you dont need an lds for 360lb/ft fwd - you need some decent tyres and sensible suspension mods (not coilovers etc, proper effective mods)
    exchange turbos are available for about £500-£600 with a custom remap about £400 or so,
    you dont need an intercooler or hoses, - the pd140 and pd170 for that matter come with a good fmic thats fine for a hybrid turbo
    #32
  34. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 26, 2010]
    Cheers Dunk, I'm gonna stick with my power for now, me thinks, but thanks for your help.
    #33
  35. smudge_don
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    smudge_don Active Member

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    [Feb 26, 2010]
    At some point i want to stick a hybrid turbo on my 170, along with new exhaust system and a map :wub:
    #34
  36. akash_sky1
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    akash_sky1 Active Member

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    [Feb 26, 2010]
    Yeah its true you don't NEED an LSD fot a big power TDI, but to have useable permorfance where you can actually get the power down out of a bend without horrendous torque steer, you really would be silly not to. I thought only the 170 had a FMIC? Certainly the standard IC in either car running much over 200 bhp will heat soak very quickly on a warmish summer day and on hard slow/fast run. The hoses are known to pop off at high boost and most tuners would recommend improved hoses and clamps for the IC for both petrol & diesel running big power.
    As mentioned above recon. hybrids are being known to blow often which is why some people are not offering them anymore.
    Certainly a DSG quattro would be a much better place to start for TDI tuning unless you were going past 380lb ft torque.
    #35
  37. devonmikeyboy
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    devonmikeyboy As far from JBS as possible !

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    [Feb 26, 2010]
    Sorry let me put it a better way. The max safe torque of the DSG box is about 310 lb unless you start to alter the software on the DSG box as well which raises the limit to about 368 lb before the DSG computer start to cut in and automatically limit the torque. It is true tuning companies have ran cars with much higher torque such as HPA with the stage 3 software but if you read the small print at the bottom ....

    STAGE 3
    EXTREME PERFORMANCE
    Price $1995

    Stage 3 software is a must for all 400+ HP applications and those drivers who demand the most out of their chassis in D, S, or M mode. In addition to the upgrades offered in the Stage 2 package, Stage 3 includes the following benefits:
    Stage 3 is a complete departure from the factory software, every gear interchange throughout every mode (D, S, and M) at every driving condition (tip, partial, or wide open throttle) is recalibrated to accommodate torque in excess of 600 ft lbs of torque.
    Our programming revamps the clutch engagement curve and allows you to take advantage of the increased grip from performance clutches by scaling out the pressure calibration field. With more pressure on tap to clamp down the clutches, the additional TQ applied through High HP applications won’t strain your clutch packs.
    The D mode up-shift program has been tailored to avoid sub 30 MPH 6 gear selections which, when combined with high HP and torque, will overload the sensitive input shafts of the gearbox.
    Additionally, a manual override feature enables the driver to retain manual callout in D or S mode instead of reverting back to automatic after 8 seconds.
    NOTE://OEM clutches have a durability threshold of 400 crank HP. With stage 3, we have been able to hold 500HP but the reliability of these packs can not be quantified.
    #36
  38. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 26, 2010]
    Cheers for that, whats the latest with your car?
    #37
  39. devonmikeyboy
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    devonmikeyboy As far from JBS as possible !

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    [Feb 26, 2010]
    My car was going great but keep having trouble with the tubular manifold so took it back to TRD last Tuesday and will probably get another one made. I was driving the car on a basic map but waiting for Rui who is doing the mapping this time to find time to get his little ass over to this country to map it properly live on a dyno and road. Hopefully got some custom 100% larger then stock injectors comming in 3-5 month as the P1287+ injectors probably will not deliver enough fuel for 400bhp +.
    Back to the DSG box. The clutch in a DSG box is operated via oil pressure. With stock software the oil pump makes 30bar and you can raise it to 33 bar via software, then the mechanical bypass valve opens. To make the DSG box work over 368lb torque i expect HPA etc close the mechanical bypass and map the oil pump to pump harder but how long the pump lasts and what damage is don`t to the clutch plates i don`t know as i have very little knowledge of the DSG box and it`s workings.
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  40. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 26, 2010]
    More knowledge than me! Thanks again lad.
    #39
  41. robby
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    robby Member

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    [Feb 26, 2010]
    Who did your remap (mobile?), is it ok with the standard clutch? how much was it? I'm wanting to get mine done and have seen so many tuners but want some opinions from owners who have had their car done

    oh - which TT switch have you fitted - 1 with the chrome?

    Cheers
    #40

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