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TDI fuel tanks verse Petrol fwd/awd

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by Tifun, Sep 25, 2009.

  1. Tifun
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    Tifun Highly Rated

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    Can anyone help me out with some research here, I am looking to see if a fwd tdi fuel tank will fit on the quattro car. We didn't get the tdi's here in the A4's during the b5 campaign, so I'm doing some research for a possible 1.9 swap and this is the only possible set back. Or are the tanks the same for each, meaning the tdi awd uses the same tank and the petrol 1.8t awd. Other than that I wonder what the possibility of getting the proper tank shipped would be considering the nature. Any insight???????
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  3. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    quattro tank is completely different. It sits off to one side, where the second exhaust box goes on a FWD car.

    As for using a petrol tank on a diseasel, they do have different part numbers, but thats not to say the petrol tank wont work...

    Presumably the difference will be in the breather system, given that the petrol tank will be vented to the active carbon can, and the derv tank probably isnt vented at all.

    8D0201075AT
    fuel tank / diesel eng.

    8D0201075BC
    fuel tank with narrow fuel filler neck (22mm) for lead-free fuel /

    It will all depend on wether the diesel pump will fit the petrol tank, but unless someones done it before, its a bit of a guessing game really!
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  4. Tifun
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    Tifun Highly Rated

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    I feel it might be one of those situations where I need to get some parts shipped to me including engine harness/ecu/fuel tank/pumps and lines. I have some more research to do on this topic as well. I need to find out in Canada or possibly Mexico imported the tdi. We got a tdi in the B5 Passat but in FWD, coming across one of those is simple in a wrecked shaped so my initial plan was to swap most of that over, however I want this to be as close to factory as possible. I'm tired of small block torque, I want big block torque now haha. Also, you get "Thanks" for that info above.
    -Keith
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  5. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    um... V8?

    Given that getting even 170hp out of a rotary 1.9tdi is pretty hard work i dont think it sounds like a good idea at all.

    Even the PD motors reach a ceiling around 230hp, a power level which is achievable quite easily from a 1.8T never mind a V8.

    Also, you do realise the 180hp 1.8T puts out 235nm of torque, and the 1.9tdi 110 also puts out 235nm, but becuase it doesnt rev, and the torque drops like a stone, its going to be a MUCH slower car with the TDi in it.
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  6. AEB A4
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    AEB A4 Member

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    I like your thinking Keith. A Tdi would be pretty cool over here. Not for performance, but something different :thumbsup: Shipping a fuel tank will set you back alot though. Hopefully you wont need one.
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  7. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 25, 2009]
    I dont really get the point of doing something just because its "different". I build my cars for me, as such what someone else does or doesnt have, or has/hasnt done before isnt really of any consequence.

    To me, a decision like the choice of enigine/suspension/wheels/whatever, goes thru a logical set of steps in my mind. Its either a functional component, in which case i weigh up the specs and suitability of the different options and make a choice based on that, or its a styling component, in which case i would consider how the mod looks in my eyes.

    For instance i'm dropping an Audi V8 into a Landrover, which could be seen as "being different" but it was more that i looked at the obvious engine choices (ie the rover V8) decided they were ****, and that i wanted something more powerful and more reliable. There were many options on the cars, including a BMW streight 6 which i already had, and various V8's such as the BMW M62 and a Chevy LS motor. Some ebay browsing turned up an ABZ for much cheapness and that decided it.

    I really cant see any logical reason to take a highly tuned 1.8T out, and replace it with an oil burner. Its a backwards step in everyway except perhaps fuel consumption, but i dont really think fuel consumptions an issue when your considering spending $$$$ on converting your motor into a TDi.
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  8. Tifun
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    Tifun Highly Rated

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    [Sep 26, 2009]
    My response is why not. I hate my 1.8t. I've seen the 1.9's rock out almost 500ft pounds of torque. I think I can make the 1.9 just as fast as my existing setup if not faster. I like the idea for a few reasons, 1. it's different, I like being different, may not be an ideal setup over in Europe but in my eyes it fills all my needs and wants 2. fuel consumption 3. it's still a very tunable engine and with the proper mods you can have a monster 4. it's a relatively straight forward swap that could be completed in a weekend if all parts are in order.

    Nothing i set in stone, more or less just trying to decide how much the initial cost would be for parts I can't easily get such as fuel tanks and transmissions or at least a gear set. I think it's a great option for my wants and needs.
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  9. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 26, 2009]
    while i agree its different, and that it would be streight forwards to install etc, i simply dont agree that it can be made as fast as your 1.8t, considering the 1.8T must be pushing around 280HP with that APR Stage3 turbo etc

    Yes, they might be able to make 500lbft (i've never heard of it mind), but even if they do, its only because its creating a huge spike at about 1200rpm, and the torque drops off rapidly afterwards. Its a given nature of a diesel. You can kid yourself forever that lots of torque makes a car fast, but what you convienently forget is that a) diesels dont rev, so the gearing is longer, instantly diluting the torque at the wheels, b) torque is a measure of an instantaneous force, power is a measure of work done. Work done dictates how quickly you accellerate, not the torque. That means its the area under the power graph that dictates how fast the car will accellerate, and even with your massive torque figure, i very much doubt your going to get much more than 250hp peak out of a tuned 1.9, and thats with spending a LOT of cash on it, and using a PD engine to begin with.

    The other issue is that most of the common tuning parts such as upgraded turbos for the 1.9 are for the transverse engine installation, meaning they wont bolt streight onto your A4 lump.

    The same cash spent on your 1.8T would probably see it knocking on the door of 400hp, or you could transplant an S4 lump or a V8, perhaps with a pair of turbos, in there instead and have much more interesting results.
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  10. Tifun
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    Tifun Highly Rated

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    [Sep 26, 2009]
    I understand what you are saying, however I'm not trying to break any world records with power. I've seen a few high HP numbered TDI's and have worked with a few. I'm not new to the tuning world and know what I can and cant get from certain setups. A TDI swap in the end will cost me nothing once I sell off my setup plus engine and other things. A V8 swap is the most limited swap available and the cost to modify it does not do anything for me. I would rather use good old Pushrod technology if I were to do a V8. Audi V8's just aren't worth the money for the amount of unavailable mods. 2.7 is a nice swap, however not what I want, it doesn't suit me very well. TDi Swap is where it's at.
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  11. ian52
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    ian52 2000 a4 1.8tqs-yellow

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    [Sep 26, 2009]
    why why why? its not as if the 1.8t is bad on fuel. i could see the point in doing it if it was say an engine from a different car altogether to be different but a tdi a4 is nothing unusual. you could throw loads of money at the tdi and it will always be slower than a 1.8t with same kind of money thrown at it.i know people dont do things to please other people but i dont see the logic.
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  12. AEB A4
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    [Sep 27, 2009]
    It is pretty different for people here in the US since I dont know of 1 A4 running a Tdi engine. Maybe not the fastest, but if he dosent care about speed then why not. Go for it Keith....can I have your stage 3 setup since you wont be needing it pretty please.

    :yes:<---What you say now.
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  13. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 27, 2009]
    The V8 has unavailable mods? The very fact your saying that shows a complete lack of imagination. 034 motorsport has off the shelf turbo manifolds available for them for starters, a pair of nice GT28RS's on there or even a pair of T28's would see you on the way to 500hp, but i suppose thats not modified enough?

    Ok so you'd need to sort out the management, perhaps fabricate some parts etc, but isnt that what "being different" is all about?

    You say you'd prefer pushrods, why exactly would you prefer to fit a clarty old yank V8 making about 35bhp/litre? That comment makes even less sense than wanting to fit a TDi. It also wont actually fit, if you want to keep the quattro system, unless you want it hanging out the front grille.
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  14. Tifun
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    Tifun Highly Rated

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    [Sep 27, 2009]
    My point about the Audi V8 is the cost per HP. A pushrod engine such as a LS6 puts out more power, cost way less, has tons more performance options, will produce tons more power in NA form and boosted, and cost per HP is considerably cheaper. Plus there's the availability of all those items. It's just personal taste in the end, I would much rather has the GM V8 over the Audi V8 anyday, the Audi V8 in my eyes is a HUGE waste of money. However neither of those are what I want. I've wanted to do a TDI swap for a long time. I will most likely break even with a TDI swap once I part out my existing setup, then from there I can do a full build which would be in the cards for this swap ;)

    Ian, it's just like Tyler said(AEB A4) we don't have a single TDI B5 over here in the states, so here it's the most unique swap. I know of a few V8 swaps, including Audi V8 and an push rod monster.


    I appreciate the thoughts you guys have, however in the end it is my car so if I choose to do a TDI swap it's my choice :yes:
    -Keith
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  15. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 27, 2009]
    Aye, fair enough at it being your own choice.

    Over here certainly though you can pickup an audi V8 for £500-1000 depending on spec etc, an LS6 would be the best part of 2-3grand.

    Ok the LS6 puts out 400hp, but the S8 motor puts out 340, which isnt that much less, it would also bolt streight up to the A4 tranny, which the LS wouldnt, and the Audi motor is only 500mm long, whereas the LS is over 700mm iirc which i suspect would give you big problems with clearance on the front panel/radiator unless you ditched the quattro tranny and moved the motor right back against the firewall.

    Surely the 2.5 or even one of the newer 3.0 motors would be a better conversion than the 1.9, given the performance bias?
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  16. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    [Sep 27, 2009]
    The LS series in the B5 bay will most certainly involve compromising the nose of the car.

    The Audi V8 is pretty close to the firewall, I can't see how the LS could move backwards any further, unless the car is space-framed, with a heavily reworked firewall.

    We're talking $$$ here, so any dough allegedly saved by not running the Audi motor will be out the window.

    I can however see the appeal of the TDI engine though, in a country that only got 3 petrol engine options in the B5 platform.
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