TDI 170 Acceleration

paul051 said:
GPS error also then. shame none of my equipment is working to your very high standards!! You are wasted sat on here all day, think about it if you put as much effort into you work you might progress on to a better motor than your A3 and you will have nothing to complain about.

take a few mph for speedo error it will still be hitting 75mph on the GPS.
Click to expand...

So now it's 75mph ?
Not 80mph any more then ?
75mph would mean approx 5500 rpm for a DSG or 5400rpm for a manual.
Certainly more believable,but still relies on the revs going miles beyond standard.
Can a diesel A3 rev to 5400/5500 rpm,even when chipped ?
Is it physically possible without pistons exploding/rods being thrown ?
Dunno.
Don't be getting all grumpy just because I'm using facts to doubt your claims though.
 
bowfer said:
So now it's 75mph ?
Not 80mph any more then ?
75mph would mean approx 5500 rpm for a DSG or 5400rpm for a manual.
Certainly more believable,but still relies on the revs going miles beyond standard.
Can a diesel A3 rev to 5400/5500 rpm,even when chipped ?
Is it physically possible without pistons exploding/rods being thrown ?
Dunno.
Don't be getting all grumpy just because I'm using facts to doubt your claims though.
Click to expand...
Im not getting grumpy you humour me!! Its just all of your posts ive ever read are so negative!! Are you sad because my soot chucker might be quicker than yours???

With regards to the 75mph i said give or take a few mph for speedo error, with regards to 80mph the speedo shows it. When the speedo and GPS are running concurrent there is a slight difference but not 20mph so i dont think i have major speedo error!!
 
paul051 said:
Im not getting grumpy you humour me!! Its just all of your posts ive ever read are so negative!! Are you sad because my soot chucker might be quicker than yours???

With regards to the 75mph i said give or take a few mph for speedo error, with regards to 80mph the speedo shows it. When the speedo and GPS are running concurrent there is a slight difference but not 20mph so i dont think i have major speedo error!!
Click to expand...

Taking your claims with a massive pinch of salt isn't negative,it's normal.
All the evidence is against you,yet you still claim your car revs past normal max revs by a massive amount.
Looking at Superchips website,for one thing,their chipped 140 actually produces it's peak power LOWER than standard.
Instead of 140bhp at 4100rpm,their car puts out 185bhp at 3800rpm.
The standard and chipped power graphs then take a huge nosedive down to about 4800rpm,at which point the graphs stop.
Yet you claim yours revs to 5400rpm+ ?
Itchy chin,Jimmy Hill.
 
bowfer said:
Taking your claims with a massive pinch of salt isn't negative,it's normal.
All the evidence is against you,yet you still claim your car revs past normal max revs by a massive amount.
Looking at Superchips website,for one thing,their chipped 140 actually produces it's peak power LOWER than standard.
Instead of 140bhp at 4100rpm,their car puts out 185bhp at 3800rpm.
The standard and chipped power graphs then take a huge nosedive down to about 4800rpm,at which point the graphs stop.
Yet you claim yours revs to 5400rpm+ ?
Itchy chin,Jimmy Hill.
Click to expand...

You said 5400rpm not me, i said just over 5000rpm. Im not bothered about all the tech ********, i was just telling you the characteristics of my car, it revs just over 5000rpm in 3rd the speedo shows 80mph at red line. what more do you want me to say. I have not posted for the fun of it to wind you up with lies or waste my own time, So get a grip Monsieur Boffin!:moa:
 
Now Now children, they only way to settle this is to post a pic?
 
paul051 said:
You said 5400rpm not me, i said just over 5000rpm. Im not bothered about all the tech ********, i was just telling you the characteristics of my car, it revs just over 5000rpm in 3rd the speedo shows 80mph at red line. what more do you want me to say. I have not posted for the fun of it to wind you up with lies or waste my own time, So get a grip Monsieur Boffin!:moa:
Click to expand...

By "tech ********" you mean 'facts' ?
The fact is your car has to be doing hugely inflated revs (for a diesel) to be doing anything like the speeds you suggest.
Revs that not one single tuning shop (I've checked several) claim the car can do.
They can all increase power within the standard rev range.
None claim they can extend the rev range,that I can see.

This might be of interest to you.
Even their Le Mans car doesn't rev past 5000rpm.

"stipulate that engine speeds must remain within the realms of production car performance, so the V12 TDI has a power band set between 3,000 and 5,000rpm"
 
bowfer said:
By "tech ********" you mean 'facts' ?
The fact is your car has to be doing hugely inflated revs (for a diesel) to be doing anything like the speeds you suggest.
Revs that not one single tuning shop (I've checked several) claim the car can do.
They can all increase power within the standard rev range.
None claim they can extend the rev range,that I can see.

This might be of interest to you.
Even their Le Mans car doesn't rev past 5000rpm.

"stipulate that engine speeds must remain within the realms of production car performance, so the V12 TDI has a power band set between 3,000 and 5,000rpm"
Click to expand...

How do you upload pic's????
 
No idea.
I used to be able to do it,but not now.
I can't even post smily faces and **** now.
 
The only thing that proves,Paul,is that you can't trust your instruments.
To be doing 80mph at only 5000 revs,your car would need substantially different gearing from what it does.
Tell me this,is your car running standard wheels/tyres ??
 
bowfer said:
The only thing that proves,Paul,is that you can't trust your instruments.
To be doing 80mph at only 5000 revs,your car would need substantially different gearing from what it does.
Tell me this,is your car running standard wheels/tyres ??
Click to expand...

The only things non orginal on the car are, Chrome mirrors, Bluefine and exhaust tips.

The wheels are the 18" 14 Spoke alloys (Audi job BBS CH)
Tyres P zero 225/18/40

The car does fly to be honest it is a bit quicker than my mates crossfire and that is quite impressive. ( i know crossfires are not the quickest car on the rd before anyone says)

As for the instruments GPS says 78 MPH, cant be bothered with a pic you will have to trust me on this one
 
I have found a test in Autocar from March 2003 of the A3 2.0 TDI -140 and it gives the following gear ratio information for the manual gear box. Info is gear ration / mph per 1000 rpm:

1st - 3.7 / 5.7
2nd - 2.09 / 10.3
3rd - 1.32 / 16.3
4th - 0.98 / 21.9
5th - 0.98 / 27.4
6th - 0.81 / 33.1

With 16.3 mph/1000 rpm in 3rd then 16.3x5 = 81.50mph. So assuming the car is reving to a true 5000rpm as the tacho indicates, then it is doing 80 in 3rd. If it was a DSG this would be confirmed by DIS display, but then the DSG would have forced a change at 4400 anyway.

Even assumeing the DSG 3rd gear ratio is 1.3 and not 1.32, the max revs the DSG will allow is 4400, so in 3rd that gives 70.6 mph and mine changes up well before that - usually at around 60 in 'tip-tronic' mode. Something not quite right somewhere!
 
Im not 100% clued up on gear ratio's etc etc, Mine is a manual tho not DSG!
 
Well christ knows what's wrong,but something is.
On standard gearing,according to every chart I can find online,a 140 quattro should only be doing around 69.5mph at 5000 rpm in third gear.
To be doing the GPS accurate 78mph you claim,the car would have to be doing around 5600 rpm.
Highly unlikely,nae impossible,for an A3 diesel to do that sort of revs.
So I guess another possibility is that your car is running a completely different gearing set-up from anything I can find on the net.
I can't even get my car to show 5000rpm in neutral (I've just tried).
Never mind under load !
Weird.
As David says,my DSG car changes up at just about bang on 60mph.
Be nice if it went to 80 though...
 
audi upgrades
Well christ knows what's wrong,but something is.
On standard gearing,according to every chart I can find online,a 140 quattro should only be doing around 69.5mph at 5000 rpm in third gear.
Click to expand...

Perhaps the Autocar gear ratio information is wrong. Some time ago some on this forum (I think it may have been 'southpaw66') did a spreadsheet for working the the various gearings. I've had a quick look but cannot find a copy - anyone know where we can find one?
 
I think I've found the information and possibly the answer - certainly as far as my car is concerned.

The Autocar gear ration information is wrong. This seems to be the correct information...

1000rpm 2.0DSG 225/45R17

mph
1st 5.2
2nd 8.8
3rd 13.9
4th 20.1
5th 26.7

see this post: http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?p=302363#post302363
and also if you look further down in the same thread there is one which gives similar information for the DSG/quattro/manual for various versions.

This would mean that the maximum revs permitted by the DSG is 4400 therefore 4400 x 13.9 mph/1000 rpm = 61mph, which is much more like it.
 
bowfer said:
Well christ knows what's wrong,but something is.
On standard gearing,according to every chart I can find online,a 140 quattro should only be doing around 69.5mph at 5000 rpm in third gear.
To be doing the GPS accurate 78mph you claim,the car would have to be doing around 5600 rpm.
Highly unlikely,nae impossible,for an A3 diesel to do that sort of revs.
So I guess another possibility is that your car is running a completely different gearing set-up from anything I can find on the net.
I can't even get my car to show 5000rpm in neutral (I've just tried).
Never mind under load !
Weird.
As David says,my DSG car changes up at just about bang on 60mph.
Be nice if it went to 80 though...
Click to expand...

Before my car was remapped the rvs could only go as high as 4500rpm after remappin with Bluefin it revs much faster and higher (just over 5000rpm) As for the 80mph in 3rd the car does it easily i do not need a hill etc.

Seems to me the DSG is just slower top end in 3rd thats all has any body got a standard manual 140 bhp they can try to see what they get and also someone with a chipped 140 to see its output!!
 
Just tried a 3rd gear blast (on a flat section of road Mr Bowfer :) ) in my 170 on my way home ......... at just under 5000rpm my speedo is reading a fraction under 80mph.

Must say I only tried it as I read this thread and thought that 3rd gear would no way go that high .......... wrong!! :)
 
Didnt think i was the only one who could do 80 in 3rd!! I must admit tho a change up from 3rd to 4th at 60 is *****!!
 
paul051 said:
Didnt think i was the only one who could do 80 in 3rd!! I must admit tho a change up from 3rd to 4th at 60 is *****!!
Click to expand...

Hear hear
One of my (many) gripes with DSG has always been that I felt the auto-change up (even in manual mode) was 'robbing' us of revs.
I've always been shot down in flames over that though,because many believe the car won't rev much further than 4400rpm anyway.
This thread just goes to show that the engine can,indeed,rev further than DSG allows.
Quite a bit further.
Even allowing for the lower gearing of DSG cars,we're being robbed of around 10mph,which would be very handy.
Allowing it to rev higher in third would make the big leap to 4th less of a strain,for example.

(only 4-5 months until a manual again....and counting...)
 
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