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T3 OR SCROLL SP56R

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by jamie226bhp, Feb 28, 2010.

  1. jamie226bhp
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    jamie226bhp Member

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    As above am thinking of upgrading to a bigger turbo at a later date but will buy the bits required in dribs and drabs, what are peoples opinions on what would be the easiest and best one to do, already have a fmic, decat and a 3" exhaust will be on soon, obviously injectors and a 3" maf but can i get the standard ecu to run these ok or do i need to look at emerald etc
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  2. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    What age of car is it on?

    I would thing the 56 R will closer to bolt on, but tbh the ex mani will be restricting it so you will need a mani to get any real power from it. On that basis it depends what you want from it?

    i would think the T3 frame will be all power on top end, if you like to tharsh the guts out of her all the time the Garret style comes into its own. If you want a more driveable version of what you have, the 56 R should be plenty.
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  3. jamie226bhp
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    jamie226bhp Member

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    it will be on a 2000 plate quatro, so the scroll will be better as i don't want to have to rev it's nuts out just looking for a good bit of power, do you think the ths manifold would be ok for the and would i need stanalone management or just a custom map
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  4. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    THS and std ECU with custom map should be sufficent. If you are tryinf to wring every little bit out of it then standalone and weeks of mapping will be best, but for a normal daily driver the std m5 ecu is more than clever enough
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  5. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    The stock ECU is probably more powerful than a lot of the aftermarket units on the market.

    Its more than capable of handling a 300hp 1.8T, you just need a good tuner.
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  6. jamie226bhp
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    jamie226bhp Member

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    I'd best get saving for the bits then
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  7. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    thatll be drive by wire Me7 ECU then will it? or is it too early?
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  8. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    JCB too early mate

    Still a chip out job to tweak sadly

    Could maybe go to a DBC M383 from a Golf or A3 1.8T once i can sort this immo problem

    I am working on it...
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  9. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    a full ME7 conversion would be awesome, you'd need a B6 harness and ecu, and an electronic throttle pedal though!

    Doesnt sound impossible though.
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  10. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Its a dash swap, complete wiring loom, probably ABS/ASR/ESP unit, ECU looms, sensors, inc SAI system probably, throttle pedal assy, throttle body( which would need to be reamed out to match the AJL inlet Mani.

    Not that i have given it much thought. :no:

    At least in the US they dont have the immo problem we have to deal with...
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  11. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    just buy a B6 and be done!! sounds like too much work!
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  12. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    Jamie have you got the 51R bolted on and tuned up yet?

    I'd probably go with the 56R as you already have most of the mods to make the most of it. As Byzan said you'd definitely benefit from an exhaust manifold that can flow more gas.
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  13. jamie226bhp
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    jamie226bhp Member

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    just waitng to get the decat and gaskets, bolts etc then it will be on, then i'll do the 3" exhaust and brakes and save for the scroll,
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  14. ian52
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    ian52 2000 a4 1.8tqs-yellow

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    Just sell the sp51 and that's some money towards it right away. Then you will only have to do everything once.
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  15. jamie226bhp
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    jamie226bhp Member

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    i'll take it to the 220 odd first then get use to that then go for more, and it's my mate who will be doing it twice for me lol
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  16. slappy_dunbar
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    slappy_dunbar Let's Do This

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    My understanding ist that the SP56R uses the 2275-series compressor wheel found in Audi TT225 & RS6. This is a 42/56 size, but it is not an ETT design like the smaller wheel in the SP51X. Have I got that right?
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  17. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I think so, they have to make an entire new opening for the TIP out of solid billet as there isnt enough meat to ream it out for the rs6 internals
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  18. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    I'd imagine you'd see more than that from the 51R with a good tune mate.. interested to see what it can do! Chop chop lol
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  19. jamie226bhp
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    jamie226bhp Member

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    i'll pull my finger out and post up the graph when it's done
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  20. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I recon you should see 240 with a good tune and a set of injectors and a MAF housing. The outlaw should make 260 i recon with a good tune, seeing an S3 with a similar sized turbo can make a shade under 300.

    I hope to be able to get mine tuned before the spring festival (11th April)
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  21. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    the S3/TT225 turbo has a larger compressor than the outlaw doesnt it?

    56mm vs the 51mm in the outlaw?
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  22. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    hmmm Sure?

    I thought it was the same as the K04-23 TT S3 turbo, where as the 56R is Rs6 internals @ 56mm?
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  23. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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  24. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  25. slappy_dunbar
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    slappy_dunbar Let's Do This

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    I don't want to be a crank, but have any of you asked Scroll why they are positioning their SP56R as an upgrade to the SP51X? It's a lesser turbo. That 5304 123 2015 compressor from the K04 is pants.
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  26. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    Surely its a much larger compressor and is going to flow more air?
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  27. Drizz
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    Drizz Project Plush

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    This is the info i got back, as im about to order a 51x if its any help?:


    K04-SP51X "the outlaw"

    Components:
    -SP51X K04 Compressor Housing

    5304-120-5018 (RS4 Turbine)
    5304-123-2051x (51X Compressor)
    5304-150-0017 (Bearing Housing)
    5304-151-5712 (Billet Seal Plate)
    5303-100-9019 (Turbine Housing) "optional"
    5303-711-0000 (K04 Rebuild Kit)

    Service&Build:
    1.5hrs Compressor Hsg Re-profile K03 to SP51X
    1.5hrs Turbine Manifold Re-profile K03 to K04
    VSR Balance @ 0-120K rpm
    Oil Pressure Test 4bar (live)
    Coast-up/down 0-120k rpm (20min)
    S&B=$750US+ship (client provided core)

    Quicker option would be to purchase a new turbine manifold ($250) we re-profile the new manifold and ship the turbo complete less wastegate valve. We do not sell wastegate valves so you must re-use the old valve. Normally a WGV will not fail unless the car was in a collision or a mechanic with butter fingers breaks it. Its an easy R&R which requires two 10mm combo wrenchs and a file to mark the original lock-nut position, 15minutes max remove/re-install.

    Piece of Mind, if you prefer to have the entire build completed at our facility please send the turbocharger to the address below with your contact information and email address. Normally clients send their turbo, we get them from all over the world and return them promptly.

    If you require SP to build the turbo without sending the "client core" terms are 50% deposit/50% on ship date.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2010
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  28. au_sjo
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    au_sjo Member

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    How much power do you want? That's the main thing when deciding on a turbocharger. I personally would change over to a large T3 for up to around 270bhp or a T34 (Escort Cosworth type) for power up to 350bhp.
    #28
  29. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    that is the key bit I would have thought.
    The issue with these turbos is they can't flow enough exhaust above a certain level and become hot air pumps. exhaust gas temps go through teh roof and reversion becomes an issue melting exhuats valves as it goes.

    You can keep a compressor identical and release a huge amount of power by increasing turbine characteristics.
    similarly if you have a decent flowing turbine housing/wheel (which we don't!) just altering the compressor housing and wheel size is going to free up loads of power (compare GT2860 (RS) and the GT2871, identical apart from comprssor wheel size = close to 100bhp difference in acheivable power on a 1.8t).

    It is matching the turbine to comprssor that is just as important (its why no-one uses the GT2876 - mismatch)


    TBH if the costs are similar between 51x and 656x you are talking about differences which are minimal
    I would much rather have a KO4 putting out 250 at a lower boost than a KO3s putting out the same at higher boost.
    better for every component in the system to be running well within the turbo's efficiency curve rather than on the edge of it
    #29
  30. docurley
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    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    From what I know the R is based on a K03 turbo and the X is based on the K04-15 making the X the bigger turbo.
    #30
  31. docurley
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    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Ok I'm wrong was looking at this from the old SP51R, anyways heres some info I found.

    #31
  32. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    I will have an SP51X (Outlaw), exhaust manifold and ECU mapped to 240 - 250HP up for grabs in two weeks if anybody is interested :sign_plug:
    #32
  33. ian52
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    ian52 2000 a4 1.8tqs-yellow

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    Pm sent.
    #33
  34. jamie226bhp
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    jamie226bhp Member

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    you don't like keeping your turbo's very long do you, you must love putting things on and taking them off, lol
    #34
  35. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    That was my previous past time on that car,lol
    #35
  36. slappy_dunbar
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    slappy_dunbar Let's Do This

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    these guys still need to sort out whether the turbine is a -5018 or is an RS4. The discrepancy is a big one.
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  37. Drizz
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    Drizz Project Plush

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    Id be very interested Lee. What you getting instead?
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  38. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    Slappy: whats the 5018 from and how does it compare to an RS4 turbine?

    I wouldnt have thaught the RS4 turbos wouldnt have been all that large, they are afterall only dealing with half a 2.7L engine, and consequently half the power. If an RS4 can only make 450-500ish, then the RS4 turbo is only capable of 225-250hp, and is designed to be spooled by 1.35litres of engine...
    #38
  39. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    ah, the 5018 is an RS6 turbine.
    #39
  40. Drizz
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    Drizz Project Plush

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    Now im even more confused! I just want a new turbo :(
    #40

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