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Suspension related Q ???

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by Bradderz_1988, Feb 4, 2013.

  1. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    This vague steering is really starting to piss me off now the control arms have all been replaced the only thing i can think of is its either the top mounts which i doubt it is given the setup on these cars or the anti-roll bar bushes are allowing the roll bar to move and push the lower control arms making the car want to take its own 'track'

    the symptoms are if i go along a uneven road the car tends to want to run away with any bump if the right wheel goes down a bump it wants to pull to the right and vice versa i still have the 96' rack fitted but have the 00' one still to go on and going to replace the bolts as ive heard there stretch bolts ?? when i get some spare time as im currently in process of moving out of this area its been a very stressful week and still havent been told if we have passed the application which was done beginning of last week !!

    Any how my Q's are :-

    what size is the front arb on the TQS and rear as il do them to ???

    will these top mounts fit my car Pair of Meyle Front Top Suspension Mounts Audi A4 A6 VW Passat Equiv: 4D0412377F | eBay. ???

    i think my wheel bearings are dry aswel as getting some very irratating road noise anyone recommend a full set from any where that are going to last and wont break the bank ???
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  2. HEKTOR
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    HEKTOR Member

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    I have a similar issue with mine. Recent MOT pointed out that the inner track rod ends have play which is likely causing my issues.
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  3. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Theres no play in the inner ends on the rack fitted or the rack i have to go on and also the rack that was originally on from factory for that matter. If i do the arb bushes, top mounts new rack and bolts and wheel bearings il be stumped if the problem is there its gettin on my nerves now lol
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  4. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    What setting has the alignment been set to?
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  5. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Cant remember but ive set it so the back flags were identical possibly 3, 4 or 5 with a toe in/out of no more than 1 +/- either side what should the setting be ??

    i track cars using this method at work and never had problems, maybe due to access of the track rods up in the arch they maybe not bang on to what i normally do them.
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  6. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    Are the control arms in good condition?
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  7. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Yes all new meyle hd range the old ones were shot so thought i would replace them to cure the problem and the rack thats on cured the 'free play' that was in the rack and the vagueness to a certain extent now it seems to have come back i may just order new rack bolts and see how it goes when i fit the other rack i have as im sure theres a tightening procedure for them and a coat of loctite wont harm things i guess !!

    can anyone confirm the link in my original post ?? And also point me at some wheel bearings please !!!
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  8. spartacus 68
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    spartacus 68 Member

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    Can't see the top mounts contributing to vague steering. I replaced the upper and lower front arms on mine at 135k and the top mounts were as good as new. The ARB bushes are definitely worth doing, as are the ARB links. What are the original shocks like? Also are tyres showing uneven wear?

    Source the ARB bushes from Audi, they're not expensive (from memory).

    Regards wheel bearings, then FAG or Febi bearings are OE specification. You'll pay out for labour, so no point fitting Topran or similar junk.
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  9. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I bet the vaugeness is the rear end wondering tbh. Kev, what do you have yours set to? 7mins toe in rings a bell
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  10. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    i work in a garage so labour is not applicable when it comes to my car just my free time :)

    was going to get some powerflex ones or might just order some from tps tomorrow.
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  11. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    nothing on the rear end suspension related has been touched since owning the car and ive had it 2 years, you can feel the road pulling the steering to which ever way it wants to go theres a tram bridge on the way back from the gym as i go over it on the way down it wants to just take out on coming traffic then as it becomes more flat it wants to take out pedestrians this is only if i sort of hold the steering like a new born if i hold it as if i was the hulk you can feel it pulsing towards the direction it wants to go.

    as for tyre wear theres none i did have tyre wear before but since doing control arms etc there seams to be none as im only making slight adjustments now and then, the car runs straight if you cling on to the wheel but the S/wheel is only slightly of centre.

    i may start saving for the powerflex rear bush kit, hows your bushes doing mark you still on powerflex ???
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  12. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    Have you checked the rear alignment?

    Audi spec says 7minutes toe in on the front, and a touch more on the rear. I had the avant set to 7 minutes toe out on the front, and 10mins toe in on the rear.

    The toe out makes the steering a bit sharper and more responsive.
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  13. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Wouldnt that make the wheels sit in the arches at the back and poke out from the bumper at the front ???

    never had the rear checked as it all seems to be in line as theres no tyre wear on the rear can you adjust the toe in/out on the rear thought you can only adjust the camber/castor ?????
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  14. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Mine is holding up well, but squeaky/ creaky when going slow otherwise fine. I did use silicone grease as recommended but it didn't help and i'm too lazy to strip em off and try again. Still it' worth it IMHO, but only cause I scored the lot for £80, also they are much easier to fit than OEM ones
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  15. PAULF
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    PAULF Member

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    You can adjust toe and camber at the rear. The camber is the bottom eccentric bolt/washer combo, and the toe is the top (rear control arm) eccentric bolt/washer. You will have disturbed the camber if you have changed rear wheel bearings.

    I found both of my rear toe adjustment bolts were seized solid in the bushes in both of my cars - and that was AFTER I had them 4 wheel aligned ( Rear Suspension Help ) It was not fun getting them out!!

    You can have the whole set up misaligned so there is no real uneven wear, but the thrust line is not at 90 degrees to the axle line. I had this with my saloon and after it was eventually sorted, what a difference!
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  16. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Mark you need tunap 121 suspension bush grease spray we have most of there poducts at work and some of them are just awesome, well they are made in germany !!!! Google it theres some on ebay too there brake paste (113) is ceramic based aswell maserati use the stuff to stop squeeky brakes on one of there models !! Have a look at some of there products.
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  17. dubster67
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    dubster67 Member

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    I have a similar problem on my TQS.

    It was helped alot by increasing the tyre pressures by about 5psi. I've got Goodyear asymmetric 2's and I think the sidewall is a little soft.

    I also raised my car up by putting spacers on my Bilstein B12 shocks, that helped too as the steering track rods were at a crazy angle due to the car being low, hence bumpsteer.

    I've also being looking at the rear lower wishbone bush, the huge one with the metal outer sleeve, it seems very soft and liable to move alot in both both directions. The one off of a B7 RS4 is a different design, alot more rubber in it, so stiffer, I'm going to try that instead of Powerflex.

    I've always thought the design of the bushes on the B5 is quite poor, too much rubber and too soft.

    I also don't like the idea of poly bushes in a joint that rotates due to creaking and binding, plus wear induced by the rotation action and speeded up by the grit that gets into the bush.

    For a future project I'm looking at making my own bushes using a central machined section that has a spherical bearing in it, that is then moulded into an outer sleeve using 80 shore rubber for a little NVH relief.

    I might not be able to do all the bushes like that due to size constraints, but those I can do should make a big improvement ie zero binding, and very low wear if I can seal it properly.

    Oh and for good measure I'm also replacing the front and rear subframe bushes with RS4 solid rubber ones, not 034motorsport but OE.

    I wonder if that will sort the B5's crap steering?
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  18. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    Hmm the RS4 lower rear bush is different? ETKA doesnt suggest thats the case, unless they've since applied the heavier duty bush to all the B6/7 models....
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  19. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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  20. dubster67
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    dubster67 Member

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    B7 RS4 bush - 4F0 407 183C, also listed for some B7 A4's. I got 2 off ebay from Eurocarparts, its definately a different design.

    As you know the B5 bush has very little rubber in it, plus some extra pieces that look like they are there to limit front/rear movement when accelerating/braking, but the B7 bush has alot more rubber in it and has no additional pieces.

    I think it could be an interesting mod considering the B7 RS4 gets a good rep for handling/steering.

    I'll get some pics as soon as I can.
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  21. dubster67
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    dubster67 Member

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    No pics needed, you beat me too it, thats it exactly.

    The B7 one looks miles better to me.
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  22. dubster67
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    dubster67 Member

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    I think it must be an improvement, just try putting a bar between the wishbone and subframe on your car and see how much that B5 bush moves.

    I'm going to try it anyway, can't do any harm.

    I'm just waiting for my new bearing press to arrive, got a rear wheel bearing to do.
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  23. Soupie69uk
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    Soupie69uk Owner

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    Just for clarification is that PFR3-206 on this diagram?

    [​IMG]
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  24. dubster67
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    dubster67 Member

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    The bush I'm talking about is for the front suspension lower rear wishbone, I think it is PFF3-202.
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  25. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    Interestingly enough, it seems every bush is different on the B7 platform, not just that lower rear one...
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  26. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Doesnt the B7 carry the bigger tapered lower ball joints ??? Which would mean upgrading uprights and brakes ??????
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  27. dubster67
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    dubster67 Member

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    I think the front uppers are the same
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  28. dubster67
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    dubster67 Member

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    It probably does, but that bush can be pressed in/out of the wishbone/arm.
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  29. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    the rear wishbones are the same fitment afaik, only the front one changed.

    The upper wishbones and bushes have a different part number to the older B5/6 parts.
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  30. dubster67
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    dubster67 Member

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    According to my ETKA the front uppers on a 1BV and 1BD B5 are the same as B7, other B5's are different.
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  31. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    B7 RS4 and A4 from 2006 onwards upper uses: 4E0407515D

    B5 1BV and pre-2006 B7's use: 8D0407515C
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  32. dubster67
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    dubster67 Member

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    Ah you're right. Oh well that could be another place for an OE style improvement.
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