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Sump Guard

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Mo-S3, Jul 30, 2003.

  1. Mo-S3
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    Mo-S3 Member

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    [Jul 30, 2003]
    I may as well start a new thread instead of completely changing a previous post under S3 Serviced

    Thanks Lyrac for the points that u made in ur post about the sump guard.
    I have already had lengthy discussions with a freind who is an metals engineer. We finally came to the conclusion that tempered steel would be an ideal material to use as a guard. Mild steel would flex upwards upon impact and possibly still damage the sump, where as tempered steel would most likely crack upon a HARD impact and take the damage away from the sump.
    Another material which i think would be ideal too is timber!! Ok dont laugh but if u think about it its ideal for taking a good knock, wont flex, wont crack, and can wear away if and when u bottom out the car. The only problem i forsee is keeping it waterproofed enough to last long enough.!!
    The steel guard will have with out a doubt channels and ducts cut into it to direct air upward sinto the engine bay to aid cooling and hopefully prevent excessive under bonnet temperatures.
    I personally wouldnt go for a rubber based product to cushion the guard against sump due to the extreme heat under there and the rigidity of the product too. I have already looked into a product that can withstand extreme heat, waterproof and has dampening qualities.
    Only thing i need to do now is get under the car and start the project !!

    Cheers
    #1
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  3. RizS3
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    RizS3 Member

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    [Jul 30, 2003]
    Will you be just copying a original audi sump guard? it has about 6 bolts which old it up..... so the original bolts could be used providing you drill the holes into the metal?

    Also why not get the metal painted in your car colour? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif i.e. you can see the sump guard whilest the car is moving.
    #2
  4. Mo-S3
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    Mo-S3 Member

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    [Jul 30, 2003]
    Riz, looks like uv lost the plot today !! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif
    #3
  5. RizS3
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    [Jul 30, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Riz, looks like uv lost the plot today !!

    [/ QUOTE ] yup..... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/snore.gif
    #4
  6. Ess_Three
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    [Jul 31, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Riz S3 said:
    Will you be just copying a original audi sump guard? it has about 6 bolts which old it up..... so the original bolts could be used providing you drill the holes into the metal?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    What original sump guard?
    That ridiculous plastic thing that gets ripped off on every lowered S3 that actually gets driven properly?
    That daft thing uses about 6 torx self tapping screws to hold itself up...not really suitable for a pukka sump guard.



    Anyway, back to the sump guard:

    Personally, I'd go with dural...
    Probably 10 or 12mm...and it would have to bolt firmly up to something solid...like the subframe mounts.

    At the end of the day...you are not looking for something to absorb all the impact.
    If you hit a raised up sink cover which sits so high it catches the sunp square on...you are going to do lots of damage, ripping off sumps, moving subframes etc...I don't think a sump guard would stop this kind of impact.

    If like me, you are looking for something that will act more as a skid plate, to deflect the sumps low point (the drain plug casting) them a sheet of 10 or 12mm dural will be ideal.

    I have already buffed the sump casting out...no damage but somewhat worrying!
    A sheet of dural would prevent the damage to the sump.

    If you need to run a sheet of hard steel, then in my opinion the car is probably too low for practiacl use...and the hard steel will not stop the major damage caused by hitting something solid...it'll just more the damage elsewhere too.

    Just my opinions...but I've used sump guards in the past...primarily to stop catching the sump on kerbs at circuits when driving lowered cars somewhat aggressivley. Dural works perfectly well for this purpose...and it's easily bendable when fabricating the guard.
    #5
  7. Mo-S3
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    [Jul 31, 2003]
    I agree with what ur saying Ess Three, no sump guard or skid plate is going to protect the sump 100%.
    Main citeria is to prevent the sump getting scraped and damaged from mainly speed bumps and debris on the road.
    The most rigid points under there is the subframe at the back and the chassis legs. Unfortunately our cars use a glass fibre type front panel which isnt the greatest item to bolt something to.

    Have u made a skid plate for ur car ??
    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
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  8. Little_Si
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    [Jul 31, 2003]
    What about the official Audi skid plate? Check out the pdf file.

    A3/S3 skid plate

    You gotta love ETKA!
    #7
  9. Mo-S3
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    [Jul 31, 2003]
    Si, thats a normal one for an A3, the S3 one is differnt and bloody expensive too. Riz just had his replaced at a cost of around £200 !! And thats plastic too !

    As far as i know Audi dont have a steel/Alu etc skid plate for their cars.
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  10. RizS3
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    [Jul 31, 2003]
    What i was trying to say was....
    Why not get the spec`s of the original audi sump guard and then have one made of metal exactly as the oem size.....?
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  11. Mo-S3
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    [Jul 31, 2003]
    Its too big riz, the original engine under tray is used to protect the engine from water and debris yet being made of plastic allows heat to excape too. If a metal copy was made from that then under bonnet temperature would considerably rise.
    I basically just want to protect my fragile sump from these crappy british roads that we pay billions for them to be maintained !! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burningmad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/fuck_you.gif
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  12. RizS3
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    [Jul 31, 2003]
    Ok ive got a better idea, keep the original sump guard but fit the metal section to it....... and drill holes in the metal bit for air cooling etc.
    #11
  13. Mo-S3
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    [Jul 31, 2003]
    Oh Yaar... samja karr. I fone was to attatch a metal plate to the original tray as soon as u hit that plate it would get ripped off taking the placky tray with it. The original tray has very crappy fixing points and cant withstand any force applied to them. They fixing points come away very easily.
    New guard needs to be attatched to rigid points on the car not to anything that flexes.

    Samaj ayee ?? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/idea.gif
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  14. RizS3
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    [Jul 31, 2003]
    haanjee! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_2.gif
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  15. Ess_Three
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    [Jul 31, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    MO-S3 said:

    Have u made a skid plate for ur car ??
    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No, I've not.
    I have been looking at doing so...but as yet haven't found suitable mounting points either, although to be honest I've not looked to hard recently...but after finding the buffed sump maybe I should!
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  16. LYRAC
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    [Jul 31, 2003]
    Having rallied a golf all over Europe for several years in the late 80's the Sump Guard that I user was a "Matter" one from Germany and I never had any problems with it and it should be similar to the one that we reauire for the S3. So what I will try to do is /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/idea.gif to locate one and let you all know.I should also be able to acertain as to where the fixings were as well. Hope that all of this helps!!
    Back soon folks!!
    Well ASAP.
    #15
  17. RSAudi
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    [Jul 31, 2003]
    Mo

    Why are you doing this? Rallying? I did not follow previous thread and do not understand your reasons but am interested /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
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  18. Ess_Three
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    [Jul 31, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Rob_A3 said:
    Mo

    Why are you doing this? Rallying? I did not follow previous thread and do not understand your reasons but am interested /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think I can safely say it's to maintain engine integrity!

    On lowered 3s and S3s the sump can be perilously close to the ground...close enough to buff the lowest section of the sump out on undulating roads, bad road surfaces or speed bumps etc.

    I have buffed mine a little...just at the lowest point...right below the drain plug.

    Others have not been so lucky...and have had to replace supms.

    I don't think I need to tell you the consequences of enduring more than just a slight graze to the sump at speed.
    Imagine what happens to your sump, oil and hence oil pressure when you bottom out at 100MHP...how long do you give the engine before it dies under catastrophic loss of oil conditions?
    And as the S3 sump is alloy....you don't get many second changes like you would with a deformable steel sump...one good hit and it cracks.

    A sump guard would simply be an insurance measure.
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  19. s8n
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    [Aug 1, 2003]
    I ripped my plastic piece of **** one off too! Funny thing is, my mate has a new S3 and he doesnt even HAVE ONE!!!

    #18
  20. LYRAC
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    [Aug 1, 2003]
    Prevention is better than cure?
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  21. Mo-S3
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    [Aug 1, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    lyrac said:
    Prevention is better than cure?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Exactly, when u know there is a very possible chance that ur car could hit something and damage the sump u may as well take whatever precautions to prevent wrecking ur car coz of a cracked sump.
    My S3 is lowered but lucky enough(touches wood) havent scraped my sump yet, but like Glen said its made of cast alloy and even a small knock could crack it unlike a steel one which would just bend.
    A colleage of mine at work has a Golf 4 and just had it lowered and a week later cracked his sump. The road hump took out a whole section of it by the drain plug. Total cost... £270 !!

    Prevention is definately better than the aftermath ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
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  22. Mo-S3
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    [Aug 1, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    lyrac said:
    So what I will try to do is /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/idea.gif to locate one and let you all know.I should also be able to acertain as to where the fixings were as well. Hope that all of this helps!!
    Back soon folks!!
    Well ASAP.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Thanks Lyrac appreciate it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
    #21
  23. Little_Si
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    [Aug 1, 2003]
    I don't think it is the standard one in my attached pdf. It's in the extras section in etka. Anyone have any facts on this?
    #22
  24. SimonP
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    [Aug 1, 2003]
    This isn't just useful for lowered S3's: I hit a broken portion of a house brick lying in the road and smashed the engine oil sensor on the base of the sump on my standard S3 - fortunately the sump was okay, though the dealership was amazed! I didn't have the option of avoiding the brick as it was just around a corner and a truck was coming the other way - I braked but thought I'd clear it - (big noise!) - if I'd have braked harded I'd probably have lowered the nose further and hosed the sump though.

    If there's an official audi part for it then that's probably going to be a lot less grief than a home made job isn't it?
    #23

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