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"Straining/jerky" noise when under full lock - b6 1.9TDi QS

Jimmeh Dec 22, 2010

  1. Jimmeh

    Jimmeh Active Member

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    Hi all.

    I've had this issue for some time now... a close friend said they would take a look but up until now, nothings happened.

    Whilst maneuvering my car from the off, a three point turn, bay-parking or general lock-to-lock action on the steering wheel, I get 'judders' down the steering wheel and a straining/squeaking/jerky noise from up front.

    On tickover, the idle doesn't sound great. Upon inspection, the lower pulley at the front of the block wobbles. The aux(?) belt (for power steering, alternator etc etc) was changed not long again and I hoped this would fix the issue. This was not the case.

    Is this a common problem? How could the pulley have found itself working loose? Am I in danger of having the pulley come off together? I can only assume this is the/a cause of the straining noise whilst turning on full lock...

    Any thoughts?

    TIA. Jim.
     
  2. Jimmeh

    Jimmeh Active Member

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    A pic to try and highlight where the offending pulley is (the larger one of the three at the bottem)

    [​IMG]
     
  3. S3 Paul

    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

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    Can you not get your hand down to try and see if there is any play in the pully?
    Does it bolt to the crank or on to the power stearing pump or something?
    Was it any better when the pulley was swaped? even if it then returned to how it is now
     
  4. quattrojames

    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator Audi A6 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    The following pic relates to an AVF engine from 06/2003 onwards, if yours isn't that let me know and I'll try and find the right picture.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Jimmeh

    Jimmeh Active Member

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    Thanks guys.

    James, difficult to tell. From the pic, the positioning and size, it looks to be #1. The Vibration damper.

    How do I find out which my engine is?! It's a 53 plate 130 1.9TDi Quattro Sport.

    Paul, the belt was changed and I DO believe it made a slight difference. Difficult to remember know though.. Will try get my hand down there in the morning to give it a good shake
     
  6. CMD

    CMD Pointing Forward's!!!!!!!!!

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    Engine code can be found on your log book Jim.
     
  7. Jimmeh

    Jimmeh Active Member

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    AVF 4962..

    Saw a local VW guy about it yesterday and sounds like a big job; complete front end removal etc. Gah.

    Will have it looked into in the New Year and let you know.

    Thanks all
     
  8. j033y

    j033y Member

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    I know this might sound like the most stupid response ever, but have you checked all your tyres are the same size and have equal wear! I know, it sounds stupid. But it can contribute to very funny full lock action, and create juddering and other noises!!

    Edit - just read you have a lose pully, probably the answer, however check your tyres too!
     
  9. Jimmeh

    Jimmeh Active Member

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    Thanks Joey - Four new tyres were put on ~month ago so this shouldn't be the issue.

    Certainly looks to be the Vibration Damper that James spotted.
     
  10. swarcup

    swarcup Well-Known Member

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    mine used to strain and moan only on fulll lock because the power steering fluid was low. Just a suggestion
     
  11. paul20v

    paul20v Audi fanatic

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    Hi
    i would check your clutch on the alternator pulley first as this can cause a lot of noise etc on lock and idle ,
    quickest way to check it is with the engine off take a small screwdriver and just inside the alternator you will see the cooling fan for the alternator
    this should move one way and not the other
    if it doesnt move either way the clutch in the pulley is your problem
    im not attacking james suggestion but i have not seen an audi crankshaft damper pulley breakdown yet allthou i have changed loads of alternator clutch pulleys with much the same noises as your explaining .
     
  12. phil_w

    phil_w Active Member VCDS Map User Audi A4 Audi Avant Owner Group S-line owners group Team Brill Red

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    Second that - clutch failure in the alternator pulley - same symptoms on our 52 plate 1.9TDI Quattro a few months back. Changed for a new one and problem went away - but, yes, front has to come off, so labour is the worst bit of the repair...
     
  13. paul20v

    paul20v Audi fanatic

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    You can actually fiddle the alternator off without taking the front off just dependes how your mechanics are .
     
  14. Jimmeh

    Jimmeh Active Member

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    Perhaps a bit of a project for me then on a quiet day...

    I've just been out - couldn't get a screwdriver into the alternator to turn the fan? All I can see is the coils within?!

    Ive taken a video of the noise though; sounds real bad :( I turned the wheel too so you could hear the squeaks. Back on in ten.
     
  15. paul20v

    paul20v Audi fanatic

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    Right been out and taken a pic for you and highlighted the fan
    its maybe not what you had in mind as its basically flat metal plates that spin round in front of the coils hope the picture helps .

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Jimmeh

    Jimmeh Active Member

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    You can't see the 'wobble' on the lower pulley here...

    [​IMG]

    Visually, the vibration damper (the larger one at the bottem) wobbles but smooths out once revs are picked up. Could this be down to the alt. pulley or would it be a separate issue
     
  17. quattrojames

    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator Audi A6 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    It's not my suggestion mate, all I did was post the picture!
     
  18. paul20v

    paul20v Audi fanatic

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    These symptoms are Bang on what the clutch on the alt will give you
    go and try and turn that fan blade just for 100% confirmation .
     
  19. paul20v

    paul20v Audi fanatic

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    sorry mate was just skipping over posts and thought you had suggested it :)
     
  20. Jimmeh

    Jimmeh Active Member

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    Nope. Can't turn it. Left or right (even with a little bit of force)

    (how I LOVE the internets.) Thanks guys.

    What happens next? I guess I should take it to a trusted garage... Has the large pulley at the bottom been effected by this do you think?
     
  21. paul20v

    paul20v Audi fanatic

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    Thats it then mate
    no other damage should have happened the only thing it sometimes does is effects the tensioner as its been dancing around alot but thats quite rare ive only changed a tensioner once due to the clutch but the guy had been driving round for 12months or more and only changed because his alternator pulley eventually broke up and fell off .
     
  22. quattrojames

    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator Audi A6 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    No problem, if it ends up that it was the vibration damper at fault after all I'll go back, edit the post and claim the credit lol
     
  23. Jimmeh

    Jimmeh Active Member

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    Great, ok thanks.

    You can hear on the vid its a nasty nasty noise.. I too have had the symptoms for a few months now if I am honest.

    Because of this, I'll have it over to my garage after Xmas/New Year so they can see if anything else has been effected.

    Thanks chaps.
     
  24. paul20v

    paul20v Audi fanatic

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    :laugh::laugh:
     
  25. paul20v

    paul20v Audi fanatic

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    It shouldnt have ,
    change the clutch you will be good to go .
     
  26. murran

    murran Well-Known Member

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    does your garage have the special little splined tool with the hole thru it to change these clutch pulleys?
     
  27. paul20v

    paul20v Audi fanatic

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    most garages do there not exspensive to buy .
     
  28. Funkyfin2000

    Funkyfin2000 Member

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    I have the same problem and have it booked in over the christmas period!!!
    Front end off job really.....and special tool needed as noted.

    Do you also get a noise on lift off from the throttle too????
     
  29. Tooks

    Tooks Active Member

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    My A4 had these exact symptoms, and it was the Alternator clutch pulley as described above. The tensioner was dancing around like a mad thing too, and Audi replaced that first of all, but obviously made no difference.... (fortunately, they paid for it!)

    It's very quiet now, and much easier to start the engine from hot now that it isn't trying to turn the alternator at the same time.

    My garage removed the alternator and got the clutch off with a 'windy gun', saved mucking about with the bumper. They also mentioned they get a lot of A4's in with this fault, but the owners do get a nice paperweight souvenir to take away with them! :)
     
  30. Funkyfin2000

    Funkyfin2000 Member

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    I don't get the same noise as mentioned BUT when I look down the front of the car I can see that Number 2 on the picture at the start of the tread is wobbling ALL over the place.

    Is this the clutch???? Its the V Belt Tensioner (Number 2)
     
  31. paul20v

    paul20v Audi fanatic

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    You can check the clutch as i ve already explained .
     
  32. Funkyfin2000

    Funkyfin2000 Member

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    cheers mate i will give it a go later.
     
  33. tatterz

    tatterz Member

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    had same problem took it to garage, £90 later it was fixed.
     
  34. Jimmeh

    Jimmeh Active Member

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    heh,

    Interesting to hear that I'm not the only one :).

    FunkyFun, no. No noise when I let off the throttle. It sounds rough on idle, but, is mainly affected by the turning of the steering wheel.

    Have got a series of dates booked in at my local independant VW place after NYE so will report back later. (£90 sounds cheap? I've been quoted ~£170)
     
  35. Funkyfin2000

    Funkyfin2000 Member

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    Interesting, will take a video of mine too. My mechanic has said its the alternator pulley.

    Quoted £105 to replace and fit.
     
  36. Funkyfin2000

    Funkyfin2000 Member

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    Heres my issue, theres more on the video at the end showing that part moving around on the pulley!

    YouTube - Audi Engine Misfire and Alternator Pulley Issue

    Any help appreciated.

    I have a lumpy car as well and wander if this is contributing.

    I did try moving the alternator fins back and forward but they won't turn either way!!! Although with the car started I am sure they are moving!

    Any help appreciated!

    Rich
     
  37. paul20v

    paul20v Audi fanatic

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    That means the clutch is buggered and this will cause the problem ,
    they will move with the car running thats what they do as its a cooling fan
    Clutch and decoupler pulleys overrun or "freewheel" when the engine decelerates this reduces strain on the drive belt.

    Today's generation of high-output alternators place tremendous stress on the entire accessory drive system. Those alternators are also being mated to growing numbers of rough-idling, four-cylinder and diesel engines that exert even greater belt-speed changes on the entire system. And if that weren't enough, car companies are decreasing engine idle speeds in order to increase fuel economy, which just adds more vibration and belt speed fluctuations to the mix.
    The end result? A whole lot of screeching, stretching, slipping and broken belts, dead batteries, and water pump and power-steering bearings that break down much too soon.


    Hope this explains a little towards the operation causes and needs for clutches on alternators .
     
  38. Funkyfin2000

    Funkyfin2000 Member

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    Very interesting actually.

    So just because I am stupid the clutch (the pulley) number 2 in the image posted at the beginning of the thread???
     
  39. paul20v

    paul20v Audi fanatic

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    No
    number 4 is the alternator pulley (where the clutch is) , number 2 is the belt tensioner .
     
  40. Funkyfin2000

    Funkyfin2000 Member

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    Thanks Paul, will see how Friday goes! :D
     

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