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"Straining/jerky" noise when under full lock - b6 1.9TDi QS

Discussion in 'A4/A4 cabriolet/S4 forum(B6 chassis)' started by Jimmeh, Dec 22, 2010.

  1. Jimmeh
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    Jimmeh Active Member

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    [Dec 22, 2010]
    Hi all.

    I've had this issue for some time now... a close friend said they would take a look but up until now, nothings happened.

    Whilst maneuvering my car from the off, a three point turn, bay-parking or general lock-to-lock action on the steering wheel, I get 'judders' down the steering wheel and a straining/squeaking/jerky noise from up front.

    On tickover, the idle doesn't sound great. Upon inspection, the lower pulley at the front of the block wobbles. The aux(?) belt (for power steering, alternator etc etc) was changed not long again and I hoped this would fix the issue. This was not the case.

    Is this a common problem? How could the pulley have found itself working loose? Am I in danger of having the pulley come off together? I can only assume this is the/a cause of the straining noise whilst turning on full lock...

    Any thoughts?

    TIA. Jim.
    #1
  2. Jimmeh
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    Jimmeh Active Member

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    [Dec 22, 2010]
    A pic to try and highlight where the offending pulley is (the larger one of the three at the bottem)

    [​IMG]
    #2
  3. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

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    [Dec 22, 2010]
    Can you not get your hand down to try and see if there is any play in the pully?
    Does it bolt to the crank or on to the power stearing pump or something?
    Was it any better when the pulley was swaped? even if it then returned to how it is now
    #3
  4. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 22, 2010]
    The following pic relates to an AVF engine from 06/2003 onwards, if yours isn't that let me know and I'll try and find the right picture.

    [​IMG]
    #4
  5. Jimmeh
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    Jimmeh Active Member

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    [Dec 22, 2010]
    Thanks guys.

    James, difficult to tell. From the pic, the positioning and size, it looks to be #1. The Vibration damper.

    How do I find out which my engine is?! It's a 53 plate 130 1.9TDi Quattro Sport.

    Paul, the belt was changed and I DO believe it made a slight difference. Difficult to remember know though.. Will try get my hand down there in the morning to give it a good shake
    #5
  6. CMD
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    CMD Pointing Forward's!!!!!!!!!

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    [Dec 23, 2010]
    Engine code can be found on your log book Jim.
    #6
  7. Jimmeh
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    Jimmeh Active Member

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    [Dec 23, 2010]
    AVF 4962..

    Saw a local VW guy about it yesterday and sounds like a big job; complete front end removal etc. Gah.

    Will have it looked into in the New Year and let you know.

    Thanks all
    #7
  8. j033y
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    j033y Member

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    [Dec 23, 2010]
    I know this might sound like the most stupid response ever, but have you checked all your tyres are the same size and have equal wear! I know, it sounds stupid. But it can contribute to very funny full lock action, and create juddering and other noises!!

    Edit - just read you have a lose pully, probably the answer, however check your tyres too!
    #8
  9. Jimmeh
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    Jimmeh Active Member

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    [Dec 23, 2010]
    Thanks Joey - Four new tyres were put on ~month ago so this shouldn't be the issue.

    Certainly looks to be the Vibration Damper that James spotted.
    #9
  10. swarcup
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    swarcup Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 23, 2010]
    mine used to strain and moan only on fulll lock because the power steering fluid was low. Just a suggestion
    #10
  11. paul20v
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    paul20v Audi fanatic

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    [Dec 23, 2010]
    Hi
    i would check your clutch on the alternator pulley first as this can cause a lot of noise etc on lock and idle ,
    quickest way to check it is with the engine off take a small screwdriver and just inside the alternator you will see the cooling fan for the alternator
    this should move one way and not the other
    if it doesnt move either way the clutch in the pulley is your problem
    im not attacking james suggestion but i have not seen an audi crankshaft damper pulley breakdown yet allthou i have changed loads of alternator clutch pulleys with much the same noises as your explaining .
    #11
  12. phil_w
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    phil_w Member VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 23, 2010]
    Second that - clutch failure in the alternator pulley - same symptoms on our 52 plate 1.9TDI Quattro a few months back. Changed for a new one and problem went away - but, yes, front has to come off, so labour is the worst bit of the repair...
    #12
  13. paul20v
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    paul20v Audi fanatic

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    [Dec 23, 2010]
    You can actually fiddle the alternator off without taking the front off just dependes how your mechanics are .
    #13
  14. Jimmeh
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    Jimmeh Active Member

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    [Dec 23, 2010]
    Perhaps a bit of a project for me then on a quiet day...

    I've just been out - couldn't get a screwdriver into the alternator to turn the fan? All I can see is the coils within?!

    Ive taken a video of the noise though; sounds real bad :( I turned the wheel too so you could hear the squeaks. Back on in ten.
    #14
  15. paul20v
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    paul20v Audi fanatic

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    [Dec 23, 2010]
    Right been out and taken a pic for you and highlighted the fan
    its maybe not what you had in mind as its basically flat metal plates that spin round in front of the coils hope the picture helps .

    [​IMG]
    #15
  16. Jimmeh
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    Jimmeh Active Member

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    [Dec 23, 2010]
    You can't see the 'wobble' on the lower pulley here...

    [​IMG]

    Visually, the vibration damper (the larger one at the bottem) wobbles but smooths out once revs are picked up. Could this be down to the alt. pulley or would it be a separate issue
    #16
  17. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 23, 2010]
    It's not my suggestion mate, all I did was post the picture!
    #17
  18. paul20v
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    paul20v Audi fanatic

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    [Dec 23, 2010]
    These symptoms are Bang on what the clutch on the alt will give you
    go and try and turn that fan blade just for 100% confirmation .
    #18
  19. paul20v
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    paul20v Audi fanatic

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    [Dec 23, 2010]
    sorry mate was just skipping over posts and thought you had suggested it :)
    #19
  20. Jimmeh
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    Jimmeh Active Member

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    [Dec 23, 2010]
    Nope. Can't turn it. Left or right (even with a little bit of force)

    (how I LOVE the internets.) Thanks guys.

    What happens next? I guess I should take it to a trusted garage... Has the large pulley at the bottom been effected by this do you think?
    #20
  21. paul20v
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    paul20v Audi fanatic

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    [Dec 23, 2010]
    Thats it then mate
    no other damage should have happened the only thing it sometimes does is effects the tensioner as its been dancing around alot but thats quite rare ive only changed a tensioner once due to the clutch but the guy had been driving round for 12months or more and only changed because his alternator pulley eventually broke up and fell off .
    #21
  22. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 23, 2010]
    No problem, if it ends up that it was the vibration damper at fault after all I'll go back, edit the post and claim the credit lol
    #22
  23. Jimmeh
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    Jimmeh Active Member

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    [Dec 23, 2010]
    Great, ok thanks.

    You can hear on the vid its a nasty nasty noise.. I too have had the symptoms for a few months now if I am honest.

    Because of this, I'll have it over to my garage after Xmas/New Year so they can see if anything else has been effected.

    Thanks chaps.
    #23
  24. paul20v
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    paul20v Audi fanatic

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    [Dec 23, 2010]
    :laugh::laugh:
    #24
  25. paul20v
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    paul20v Audi fanatic

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    [Dec 23, 2010]
    It shouldnt have ,
    change the clutch you will be good to go .
    #25
  26. murran
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    murran Active Member

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    [Dec 23, 2010]
    does your garage have the special little splined tool with the hole thru it to change these clutch pulleys?
    #26
  27. paul20v
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    paul20v Audi fanatic

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    [Dec 24, 2010]
    most garages do there not exspensive to buy .
    #27
  28. Funkyfin2000
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    Funkyfin2000 Member

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    [Dec 24, 2010]
    I have the same problem and have it booked in over the christmas period!!!
    Front end off job really.....and special tool needed as noted.

    Do you also get a noise on lift off from the throttle too????
    #28
  29. Tooks
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    Tooks Active Member

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    [Dec 24, 2010]
    My A4 had these exact symptoms, and it was the Alternator clutch pulley as described above. The tensioner was dancing around like a mad thing too, and Audi replaced that first of all, but obviously made no difference.... (fortunately, they paid for it!)

    It's very quiet now, and much easier to start the engine from hot now that it isn't trying to turn the alternator at the same time.

    My garage removed the alternator and got the clutch off with a 'windy gun', saved mucking about with the bumper. They also mentioned they get a lot of A4's in with this fault, but the owners do get a nice paperweight souvenir to take away with them! :)
    #29
  30. Funkyfin2000
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    Funkyfin2000 Member

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    [Dec 25, 2010]
    I don't get the same noise as mentioned BUT when I look down the front of the car I can see that Number 2 on the picture at the start of the tread is wobbling ALL over the place.

    Is this the clutch???? Its the V Belt Tensioner (Number 2)
    #30
  31. paul20v
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    paul20v Audi fanatic

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    [Dec 26, 2010]
    You can check the clutch as i ve already explained .
    #31
  32. Funkyfin2000
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    Funkyfin2000 Member

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    [Dec 26, 2010]
    cheers mate i will give it a go later.
    #32
  33. tatterz
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    tatterz Member

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    [Dec 26, 2010]
    had same problem took it to garage, £90 later it was fixed.
    #33
  34. Jimmeh
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    Jimmeh Active Member

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    [Dec 27, 2010]
    heh,

    Interesting to hear that I'm not the only one :).

    FunkyFun, no. No noise when I let off the throttle. It sounds rough on idle, but, is mainly affected by the turning of the steering wheel.

    Have got a series of dates booked in at my local independant VW place after NYE so will report back later. (£90 sounds cheap? I've been quoted ~£170)
    #34
  35. Funkyfin2000
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    Funkyfin2000 Member

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    [Dec 27, 2010]
    Interesting, will take a video of mine too. My mechanic has said its the alternator pulley.

    Quoted £105 to replace and fit.
    #35
  36. Funkyfin2000
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    Funkyfin2000 Member

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    [Dec 28, 2010]
    Heres my issue, theres more on the video at the end showing that part moving around on the pulley!

    YouTube - Audi Engine Misfire and Alternator Pulley Issue

    Any help appreciated.

    I have a lumpy car as well and wander if this is contributing.

    I did try moving the alternator fins back and forward but they won't turn either way!!! Although with the car started I am sure they are moving!

    Any help appreciated!

    Rich
    #36
  37. paul20v
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    paul20v Audi fanatic

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    [Dec 28, 2010]
    That means the clutch is buggered and this will cause the problem ,
    they will move with the car running thats what they do as its a cooling fan
    Clutch and decoupler pulleys overrun or "freewheel" when the engine decelerates this reduces strain on the drive belt.

    Today's generation of high-output alternators place tremendous stress on the entire accessory drive system. Those alternators are also being mated to growing numbers of rough-idling, four-cylinder and diesel engines that exert even greater belt-speed changes on the entire system. And if that weren't enough, car companies are decreasing engine idle speeds in order to increase fuel economy, which just adds more vibration and belt speed fluctuations to the mix.
    The end result? A whole lot of screeching, stretching, slipping and broken belts, dead batteries, and water pump and power-steering bearings that break down much too soon.


    Hope this explains a little towards the operation causes and needs for clutches on alternators .
    #37
  38. Funkyfin2000
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    Funkyfin2000 Member

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    [Dec 29, 2010]
    Very interesting actually.

    So just because I am stupid the clutch (the pulley) number 2 in the image posted at the beginning of the thread???
    #38
  39. paul20v
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    paul20v Audi fanatic

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    [Dec 29, 2010]
    No
    number 4 is the alternator pulley (where the clutch is) , number 2 is the belt tensioner .
    #39
  40. Funkyfin2000
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    Funkyfin2000 Member

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    [Dec 29, 2010]
    Thanks Paul, will see how Friday goes! :D
    #40

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