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Steering issues

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by Bradderz_1988, Nov 5, 2012.

  1. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Has anyone come across knocking from the steering rack/column if you shake the wheel left to right ?? Also when im driving on the motorway if i hold the steering wheel so that the wheels are straight you can feel play and if i hit a bit off road with a dip on one of the wheels its as if i have no control over the steering in this play spot, all control arms have been replaced and also track rods i thought before it was the control arms that were causing this but it may have been a mixture of the two but the arms were definatly knackerd as the tyres were well worn on the inner edge as the lower rears were totally shot. Any pointers or experiences will be great before i have to start stripping things down. Also what racks/columns are compatible with the TQS.... 1.8T FWD, S4, RS4 ????? Just incase i cant get a TQS one.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2012
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  2. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    inner rod ends?
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  3. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    I checked the rod ends while track rods were off well pretty sure i did may have missed the drivers one checked with the wheels on but i presume you wont feel much on b5's with the way the suspension is, but ive never come across a car with play in the steering wheel that was due to play in the inner rods will any B5 lower colomn knuckle/uj shaft work with my car theres one on ebay for about £20 might be worth changing it out first rather than tackling the rack. I might change out the rack anyway whats best brand to go for or recon unit ???
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  4. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    that reminds me, mark chased a clonk like this and it turned out one of the steering rack mounting bolts was loose.

    Worth a look!
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  5. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    I was thinking that myself actually if it turned out it wasnt the uj, where are the mounting bolts mounted iirc i think there under the scuttle where the battery is ???
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  6. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Well just been out taking the little un to the doctors sat in the car park and had a play with the steering wheel and the knocking noise is more when turning to the right from the left when moving the wheel left to right it doesnt knock when turning it right to left, im thinking its definately UJ related as if it was something loose or inner joint etc it would be there all the time ???
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  7. NineNails
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    NineNails Proud sponsor of the snack food industry

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    I have this to a certain extent too. No knocking but just slight play in the wheel but it's not all the time? Does yours tramline much Bradderz and you find yourself constantly making little steering corrections?
    I thought about the column joint Audi A4 (B5) - Lower Steering Column | eBay but after looking I can find no play in it at all.
    All I can think of is bottom ball joints but they look fine on mine too. I am running 245 tyres which may be knocking things out a bit...
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  8. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    your not really supposed to seperate the upper and lower columns. Audi sell them as one part, and it comes with explicit instructions not to split the two halves.
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  9. NineNails
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    NineNails Proud sponsor of the snack food industry

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    Thoughts on why that would be Kev?
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  10. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    I constantly find myself making steering adjustments as though the camber of the road is dictating the 'track' of the wheels through the play in what evers worn and i have to adjust the steering accordingly if the shaft is splined i dont see a problem removing it some cars have collapsable shafts which are splined with a bolt clamp on the upper colomn is the B5 similar design ??

    i may double check the rack mountings for petes sake are they bushed or bolt clamped brackets ???

    Are they differances between rack specs on certain models ???
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  11. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    Rack is just bolted to the shell. No bushes, clamps or brackets. Two bolts down from the scuttle area, and one up from underneath. Think it was the underneath one that was loose on marks.

    Does your steering wheel/column creak at all?

    The steering on the avant does, and i'd just put it down to some warped trim or plastics in/around the shroud, however i've recently noticed that the avants steering is much stiffer than the saloon. It feels like something is binding very slightly. Its not really noticable unless you switch between the two cars, and even then its only really evident if you want to make very small "fingertip" adjustments, then you find that you need to apply a slightly increased amount of force to overcome the slight sticking sensation, then the wheel sort of jumps as it becomes free meaning your small correction ends up overdone and you need to turn back again. On some roads it gives the sensation of always having to make corrections as you really notice them. However drive along the same road in my car, and you then realise that the same corrections are being made, but they require almost no wheel input and just a tiny flex of the wrist.

    I think i'm going to try changing out the column at some point.
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  12. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Right well ive checked the uj and all seems fine the knock seems to be more in the rack but ive checked all the bolts the underneath one is a pig to get at but looking at it whilst someone moved the steering it didnt seem to move only otherthing was i had the car up on the ramp and engine off so i could try and pin point the noise and as my work mate was turning the steering lock to lock the fluid was being pressurised and forced out the relief valve of the resivour cap also after being on full lock it seems to become noisey either the rack or pump but pumps definately working ??? Im thinking my rack may be knackered any suggestions ??

    Priced an exchange unit from tps and it was £670+vat ouch !!!

    ECP seem to list 3 racks one being a QH iirc description as no steering damper and the other two being remy one with and one without ?? Which one do i need also recommendations on brand. Spoke to andrew pages and they wanted to no the same wether it has steering damper or not and if the rack is a KOYO or something along them lines ???

    what are the racks like to do as it looks a right ball ache lol
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  13. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Anyone with ETKA can you give us the part number i need cheers.
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  14. Sulli79
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    Sulli79 Active Member

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    I think its 8D2 422 052 D , might be worth messaging stoke audi on here with your chassis no to confirm though
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  15. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Ive just looked on etka didnt have it at hand before and it seems that it is 8d2 442 052 AX and looking on gsf i can get it for £318.00 delivered and get £102 back if i return my old unit, and they list it as having a steering damper. So may go with them.

    POWER STEERING RACK
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  16. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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  17. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    No facelifts have a damper.
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  18. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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  19. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    Ok just had a look, it seems some facelifts DID infact get a damper. they dropped it early on Y chassis code (MY2000) if your car is on X (1999) then it will have a damper, and has steering rack 8D2422052D which is specific to the early TQS and PFL (and early FL) S4.

    The 052AX part number you mention above is a PFL damper type for normal V6 engined A4s, not what you want.

    053AX is listed as 2000> AJL and V6 engines (no damper)
    052HX is listed as 2000> S4

    Personally i suspect later TQS's will actually have 052HX.
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  20. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    What if i fitted a rack without a damper surely if they fitted them to later TQS's then it should be fine ??

    when i look on etka with my chassis no' there was only two that are listed for the AJL and some V6 models and the only one available is the exchange as the other was dropped in 2005 and superseded to 8d2 442 052 ax ??

    i just hate trying to narrow down the right part when the genuine ones are fooking expensive lol
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  21. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    052ax is PFL and has a damper, but is not the same as what you have.

    The issue is what did audi change on the S4 rack compared with the standard A4 one...


    If you want a non-damper rack, then IMO you want the later S4 one, which is 052HX.
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  22. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Whats this part number off it says S4 on listing and gives this number - 8D1422071Q ??

    is it a earlier PFL S4 rack as its date stamped 97 and has no damper bracket on the n/s of the rack ???
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  23. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Ive just popped someone else's reg in ecp finder and it lists the same three for mine now what would be the best out off the two that dont have the damper ??? Im thinking the remy one for £538 inc surcharge so works out at £303, if i put a S4 reg in they dont list any PFL or FL ??

    Steering Rack | Steering Mount | Quality Car Steering Parts
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  24. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Well ive orded one off ebay from a X reg TQS £80 posted hes actually got a set of recaros up for sale out of his avant his ebay name is vagmysta2011 if you fancy some recaros. He said its got no damper so fingers crossed its as aragorn said and it has the 052 HX rack and not just the seller whos a blagger lol !!

    i cant wait to remove mine and see if some plonker has fitted the wrong one and hope that it cures my problem. Will update with pics have had a look at a few right ups and it looks like its not actually a bigger job than it looks im actually quite excited to nail down and get it replaced when the new/used rack arrives lol
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  25. spartacus 68
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    spartacus 68 Member

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  26. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    I found this one - [FONT=.HelveticaNeueUI]http://audisrs.com/archive/changing-steering-rack__o_t__t_7154.html[/FONT]
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  27. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    Be interesting to see which one turns up!

    I'm really not sure what difference is between the normal and S4 ones. Theres clearly some difference, or they wouldnt have fitted a different part, who knows what it is though?
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  28. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    I also messaged another seller who was breaking a 2.4 2000 reg and he gave me this number 8D2 422 071N and it has no damper as he has emailed me pics of the rack.

    ive also seen that number on some german ebay S4 racks aswell ???
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  29. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Well the car is sorted ive replaced the rack with this one 8d2 422 065 p it was date stamped 96' and had no damper but the car i thought it was coming off was a X reg TQS so i think the seller has a few hes breaking and just sent any rack he had lying around, the cars steering is alot lighter and seems to be quicker ratio than the old one and my play has gone in the steering now the knock is there but i think it may be in the upper column or that area it doesnt sound to bad and only does it when stationary at idle so ill just live with that for now.

    The job in hand wasnt to bad at all smashed my thumb off the clutch pedal when pulling the boot off from the uj though ouch lol
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  30. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Bit of an update -

    this weekend i replaced the 2 front tyres from pirelli pzero assy's to conti sport contact 3's and also had a play with the wheel alignment i got the back flags identical and the fronst are towing in/out +- 5 which in theory should cancel out to 0 as they are straight to the rear wheels any advice ?? Steering was a little of maybe 2 or 3 splines as i took the wheel off last night and placed it straight now theres now wandering of the steering, well only on motorways depending on the camber the wheel seams to turn slightly away from the camber to allow the car to go straight also in a straight line if i let of the wheel it wants to try and pull towards the camber towards the hard shoulder ?? Is this normal or should i check the alignment again ??
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  31. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    cars always follow the camber downhill, which means on most UK roads, they will pull left.

    What exact alignment settings did you use?

    You want the rear end toed in slightly (8minutes or so) for stability. Front if you toe in it will become more stable at speed, but less willing to turn. Toe out makes it much more willing to turn, but can make the car fidgety at speed. I put 7minutes of toe out on the avant when i had it aligned.
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  32. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Its a supertracker laser alignment so only goes of +10, 0, -10 then it has millimeters above them but both showed 8 on rear flags then the fronts were -5 and +5, i may get it 4 wheel aligned when i tackle the rear bushes but for now it doesnt pull on bumpy roads so im happy will just keep an eye on tyres for any abnormal wear !!
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  33. Oranoco
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    Oranoco Well-Known Member

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    I have been experiencing identical issues to you with that bit of play and vagueness to the steering, seems very skitty and goes where it wants to on the bumpy bits. Looks like a rack will need to be on the shopping list.
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  34. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    find a kwikfit that has hunter kit and ask them for a free alignment check :)
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