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Stage 2 Re-map at 152,000 miles good idea or not?

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by lil bob, May 18, 2013.

  1. lil bob
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    lil bob New Member

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    [May 18, 2013]
    Hi all,

    Is it safe for me to get a stage 2 map on my A3 AUM 1.8T which has got 152,000 on the clock? As far as I am aware everything is original in the engine. Modification wise I am planing to do the following before mapping:
    Forge tip
    Forge 007p
    turbo back exhaust with sports cat
    maybe front inter-cooler
    extra cold air feed to the air box
    replace all vacuum hoses

    Is this a good idea or will I blow my engine or turbo? If not what sort of bhp figures am I looking at?

    Martin
    #1
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  3. Gops
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    Gops 6th gear @7000rpm

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    [May 18, 2013]
    You'll need all that for a stage 2 at least! IC, down pipe, tip. Try rid of any leaky pipes too! My cars done 182k and hopefully getting a stage 2 in a couple of weeks. Try and make sure you car is running at best as possible as its easier for the tuner.
    #2
  4. kwistof
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    kwistof South East Events Moderator Regional Rep

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    [May 18, 2013]
    Agree with what gops said above...replace as many of the hoses as possible- be good to have an oil catch as well for the sake of £40

    Hopefully your clutch is in okay nick. Oem will hold for stage 2 but will highlight a weak clutch when mapped as stage 2 is mostly for extra torque compared to stage 1.

    I take it by you saying that everything is original - means you have a completely standard car at the moment?
    #3
  5. Darren4
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    Darren4 Member

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    [May 18, 2013]
    You might to get a low mileage fuel pump as yours might be a bit old :)
    #4
  6. lil bob
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    lil bob New Member

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    [May 19, 2013]
    Gops can you let me know how it goes?

    Kwistof, Yeah the clutch feels fine no slipping what so ever and the biting point is in the middle of the peddle. Yeah the engine is standard, but suspension side isn't:laugh:. Are the catch cans easy to install and why would I need one?

    Darren, What will happen to the fuel pump if i don't replace it then?
    #5
  7. Vex182
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    Vex182 Guess what I drive...

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    [May 19, 2013]
    Catch can is easy and stops all the **** being pulled into the intake and a weak fuel pump will allow it run lean!
    #6
  8. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

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    [May 19, 2013]
    Would you S3 boys bugger off?

    A standard clutch won't hold for a stage 2 map, not for long.

    The fuel pumps on A3's seem to hold a bit better due to being 3 bar not 4 bar. His is probably fine.

    When you say the suspension isn't standard, what have you done? What anti roll bars have you got? What polybushes did you get, are they caster corrective? What top mounts are you using? Have you changed the hubs and lower arms?

    Stage 2 isn't just engine tuning, a proper stage 2 car is a complete tuning package which should include the suspension, brakes, clutch and lastly the engine. Don't just think you can jump into stage 2, because to build a proper stage 2 car you will be spending double what the car is worth. Easily.

    My suggestion is to go stage 1, do the clutch with a VR6 upgrade, polybushes, engine mounts, roll bars, hubs, lower arms, subframe bushes, LCR/S3 steering rack, rear beam bushes etc and THEN upgrade what you have to stage 2 or even better a custom map.

    Stage tuning is for losers anyway, but there is still a route which must be taken.
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  9. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

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    [May 19, 2013]
    And last but not least, don't tune to figures. Tune to what the hardware can safely provide and what makes you happy.
    #8
  10. lil bob
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    lil bob New Member

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    [May 19, 2013]
    AP coilovers, 22mm white line front ARB, 24mm white line rear ARB (adjustable), front and rear wishbone powerflex bushes, Home made drop links, hel front braided hoses, super blue brake fluid. Oh and just had new steering arms fitted yesterday.
    #9
  11. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

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    [May 19, 2013]
    Are you still on standard wishbones and front hubs? Put LCR or S3 ones on there if you can. You might also be interested in a shorter LCR/S3 steering rack, which takes a turn out of the rack.

    Are you still on standard size brakes?

    The spec is good, better than most. There's a few more bits to go until you can say it's sorted though ;)
    #10
  12. lil bob
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    lil bob New Member

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    [May 19, 2013]
    Yep standard wishbones and hubs. brakes are discs and pads are standard, i did hear that you can put s3 discs and pads on there is that true and is it easy to do?
    #11
  13. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

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    [May 19, 2013]
    Super easy to do. But they're not great.

    Better off going straight to Leon Cupra R Brembos, a much better setup. S3 brakes barely stop the S3 under a spirited drive, they're slightly better on an A3 but still don't have the staying power of a set of Brembos.
    #12
  14. lil bob
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    lil bob New Member

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    [May 19, 2013]
    What parts do you need for this conversion and is it including the rear to?
    #13
  15. R34nel
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    R34nel Active Member

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    [May 19, 2013]
    bit extreme all that lot 16klappe

    It really depends how the car is used as to what bits will benefit you, mine is an s3 at revo 2+ but I haven't touched the suspension or brakes because I don't track the car or go round corners above normal speeds, I just like a bit of point and shoot acceleration for straight lines, I've never been short of braking power with my driving
    #14
  16. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

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    [May 19, 2013]
    Hardly extreme, it's just that your driving doesn't get the brakes working. 312's are shocking when driven in a "spirited fashion", especially compared to the Brembos off an LCR of the same chassis.

    It amazes me that they put skinny 312's with an antiquated single sliding piston iron caliper on a ton and a half of AWD Audi when the cheap Spanish LCR's got a blinding set of Brembos with thoroughly vented discs of a larger diameter.

    They barely bring my A3 to a stop with a spirited drive, let alone every S3 I've driven with one. And given the suspension spec of the A3 this guy is building I'm fairly certain he wants to do more than point and shoot acceleration in straight lines.

    :beerchug:
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  17. lil bob
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    lil bob New Member

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    [May 19, 2013]
    What parts do you need for this conversion and is it including the rear to?

    Martin
    #16
  18. Gops
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    Gops 6th gear @7000rpm

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    [May 19, 2013]
    Brembo's are good on the s3. Definitely better under spirited driving!! I think jardo is right here, you want all the speed, it's better to have the package too. Like having really fast broadband and a really slow computer.. Get the car set up so it'll stop and corner like a stage 2 should. If you don't want any suspension or brake mods etc then stick with stage 1.
    #17
  19. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

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    [May 19, 2013]
    For the S3 conversion, just the caliper carriers and the discs. The same calipers are used.

    For LCR's it's a little more complex, discs, calipers and pads, carriers and brake lines. But very much worth it.

    The thing with LCR Brembos is that they will ALWAYS be worth £4/500. So if you split the car you've got a good chunk of money back from them, and people always want them.
    #18
  20. lil bob
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    lil bob New Member

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    [May 19, 2013]
    Okay cheers for that 16Klappe? So going back to getting the engine ready for a re-map 1 or 2 what i need to is what i said in the first post. Do i really need to worry about the fuel pump and catch can or do i need them? Apart from just focus on handling?
    #19
  21. s33nyboy12
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    s33nyboy12 Well-Known Member

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    [May 19, 2013]
    I agree with jaardo here, and r34nel must drive his stage 2 like my granny drives her mobility scooter !

    You should ( O.P) check out prawns build thread ;-) , or jaardo s , but at minimum I would consider some lcr brembo s, they aren't that expensive and so many lcr being broken at the minute. Discs and pads are good price, your car is lighter than lcr and s3 soooo win win for you. People see a car then they read stage 2 on a forum and there like a fat kid with cake, but you need a lot of money to make a car a sorted , driveable and useable stage 2 car . Especially if you take into account the car value and mods cost, labour if you not doing it yourself. ££££'s
    Do your homework and research the threads, sounds like you made a good start on your suspension and chassis upgrades . You've got to love your car or be looking to keep it to warrant the money and time going stage 2. :)

    Sean
    #20
  22. s33nyboy12
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    s33nyboy12 Well-Known Member

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    [May 19, 2013]
    Fuel pump , not urgent......... Catch can ,recommended!
    #21
  23. lil bob
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    lil bob New Member

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    [May 19, 2013]
    Okay cheers for that 16Klappe? So going back to getting the engine ready for a re-map 1 or 2 what i need to is what i said in the first post. Do i really need to worry about the fuel pump and catch can or do i need them? Apart from just focus on handling?
    #22
  24. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

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    [May 19, 2013]
    A3's feel best with 230/235bhp and 280/290lbft. To get those figures you need a Forge TIP, a non-leaking DV, a front mount, a strong actuator (stock is fine if new), a downpipe and decat, a decent filter, a PCV delete, an N249 bypass and a few other odds and sods. A good map (Niki at R tech or Bill at B5) will bring out 230 from that setup.

    I wouldn't worry about the fuel pump until your one fails, IF it fails. Logging at the time of mapping will show the fuel pumps health.

    Catch can is ok; but I prefer to keep it clean and just have a PCV tidy up and then have it running down to the subframe and under the car. Most of the liquid in a catch can will be water, with the odd drip of oil so you're not harming the enviroment too much.
    #23
  25. lil bob
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    lil bob New Member

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    [May 19, 2013]
    cheers Sean much appreciated, i am planning to keep it for a while wanna go jap next and get into the art of drifting. Got to wait until my insurance is cheap and can afford a 200sx :w00t:.
    #24
  26. R34nel
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    R34nel Active Member

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    [May 19, 2013]
    I don't drive the car like a granny but if I'm gonna give it the beans ill do it somewhere that I don't need to stop in such a hurry that I need uprated brakes for, I'm not being funny or judging anyone else on here but if I needed uprated suspension and brakes in a car only used on the road then I'd be a little worried that I might be putting other road users in danger. On the other hand I like lowering for looks or sometimes on basic models they feel better cornering with upgraded suspension but big brakes? My stockers could stop me in ample time from the speed limits or even a moderate amount above
    #25
  27. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

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    [May 19, 2013]
    Well good for you. But I think they're turd and will continue to tell everybody to buy better brakes in the interest of safety.

    Good day.
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  28. R34nel
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    R34nel Active Member

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    [May 19, 2013]
    It was aimed at the person who said I must drive like a granny on mobility scooter lol
    #27
  29. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

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    [May 19, 2013]
    I agree with him :p

    :beerchug:
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  30. lil bob
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    lil bob New Member

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    [Jul 1, 2013]
    Hey Gops,

    Just wondering if you had your re map and how it went?

    Martin
    #29
  31. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 1, 2013]
    #30
  32. S3quatt
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    S3quatt Flat Oot like a ducks Foot

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    [Jul 1, 2013]
    Or better still, trade it for an S3
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  33. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

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    [Jul 1, 2013]
    I'd rather die.

    Overweight lumps of fake 4WD turd, never in a million years would I want to subject myself to such a blancmange of a vehicle. And nor would I want to drive around in a mass marketing ploy designed to trick people into thinking that the car they were buying was in any way shape or form related to the past motorsport successes.

    :beerchug:
    #32
  34. Pubemammal
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    Pubemammal Active Member

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  35. robloake
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    robloake Member

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    [Jul 2, 2013]
    Don't suppose this that relevant but I recently had a stage 1 remap on a standard, very rattley A3 1.9 tdi 110, bhp is now close to 150, with loads of torque, this car has done 163,000 miles. Much more fun, smoother, longer power pulling thru the gears and 45/50 mpg, I was nervous but ok now !! gonna get a big turbo next, whats the worst that can happen ??
    #34
  36. S3quatt
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    S3quatt Flat Oot like a ducks Foot

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    [Jul 2, 2013]
    Remind us again why the 1.8t is so much better?
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  37. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

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    [Jul 3, 2013]
    You aren't worth my time explaining.
    #36
  38. Pubemammal
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    Pubemammal Active Member

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    [Jul 3, 2013]
    Eoush!
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  39. S3quatt
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    S3quatt Flat Oot like a ducks Foot

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    [Jul 3, 2013]
    Haha! Thats a cop out if I ever read one. Nice.
    #38
  40. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

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    [Jul 3, 2013]
    Well you must be a bit of a special case to pop up in an A3 thread, for A3 tuning asking for advice about an A3 with the suggestion of "better still trade it in for an s3." If you can't comprehend the reasons an A3 might be better than an S3 then why should I bother wasting my time talking to you about it.

    Truth is, you'r trolling and have nothing constructive to add to this thread. How sad. :(
    #39
  41. S3quatt
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    S3quatt Flat Oot like a ducks Foot

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    [Jul 3, 2013]
    Oh come on.
    Not trolling, just retorting to your anti S3 post, giving you a dig in the ribs ;) Lighten up.
    I am genuinely curious as to why you seem to hate the S3 so much?
    You say its fake 4wd. That I don't dispute, but the 1.8 tq is exactly the same with a little less power.
    Personally I've never heard of the S3 being compared to the UR. They are worlds apart.

    Surely you can't deny the S, at the time of release was a better handling car out of the box?
    Like I said, I just can't comprehend your hatred towards them.
    Personally, I'm Audi through & through. Had six of them now, including a UR, S2 & S4. IMHO the S3 is one of the best I've had & the reason I kept it so long!
    #40
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