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Stage 2 apr remap

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by ollie2013uk, Jun 15, 2013.

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  1. kwistof
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    kwistof South East Events Moderator Regional Rep

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    Haha....This is EXACTLY what happened when I took my car on a 400 mile round trip to Bill's....

    Bill could have mapped it but advised me about the issues and sent me away to get it sorted.

    I remember everything being all okay with the fault codes (none)- but not when it was hooked up to VCDS and taking logs...it turned out my MAF and Lambda sensor was not reading correctly and needed replacing, and the smoke test resulted in a split pipe under the inlet manifold.

    2 weeks later I was back up there with new parts and got a CC remap :)
    #41
  2. Scullies
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    Scullies Active Member

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    What made you get a CC phase1 from Badger5, when he could do a custom map? Just curious
    #42
  3. kwistof
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    kwistof South East Events Moderator Regional Rep

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    Not going to lie but I haven't got a a fecking clue dude on what made me go for CC......

    I literally told Bill what I was after from my S3.....which was a strong pulling car in the middle of the rev range which was often used for fast road use.

    I believe he was tweaking the CC map to suit my car and tbh I have no complaints about the map or about the service I received- I went in with 208bhp and around 220lbfts and left with......250bhp and about 270lbfts.

    I'll be going for a full on custom mapping session for stage 2 though :) I believe Bill has stopped CC maps.
    #43
  4. Brodster
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    Brodster Shark Performance In Scotland Regional Rep Site Sponsor

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    Jesus even Scotland was hot today......god damn hot.....well for my peely-wahly skin it was.....lol
    #44
  5. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    This thread is AWESOME! :laugh:































    I'll get my coat! :sorry:
    #45
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  6. AwesomeMark
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    AwesomeMark New Member

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    Bill

    Like i said i appreciate your comments on here and everybody else's but the same applies to you please feel free to give me a ring directly to discuss, as far as we are concerned we carry out a good health check and do not get hardly any issues with a car once we have mapped it, maybe the odd inter cooler hose popping off but you cant tell me you check for them, we do check for split PCV vac pipes as we all know what is popular to perish or split and we too have a smoke test machine should a boost leak arise, we have also on many occasions refused to map cars unless certain issues have been sorted otherwise as you know it's like opening a can of worms, I'm glad that you carry out all of the above that i mentioned including checking Turbo condition putting the car on rollers and checking vac pipes, inter cooler pipes, air and fueling and EGT's, we dont do as many Old 1.8ts as you mention compared to the thousands we have done over the years, we have to balance our experience of what is needed and required, with time scales that the customer expects and also costings.

    We can all find extra work to do on most 1.8t's due to the age of these cars now but some customers do not have expendable cash at hand, they simply just want a map and that's all they can afford, obviously from a tuner point of view the map has to be carried out in a responsible manner and we try to do that the best way we can, percentage wise it is a very small number that ever have an issue with and this is always picked up on Road test and discussed with the customer after, and would normally be only the odd pipe that has an issue and is replaced at very little cost to the customer.

    Like i said i appreciate your work ethics and i am sure that the many customers who have visited awesome appreciate ours.

    Regards Mark
    #46
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  7. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    I dont believe "our" respective methods are the same Mark with all due respect ;)

    I will continue doing what I feel to be the best thing for the customer and car vs expectations....... and of course customer budget.

    Road tests do not show leaks.. Visual inspections do not show leaks.. Smoke tests do, which is why I purchased my tester several years ago, and Always start the remap process with Smoke test, followed by before dyno with full logging to set a baseline for EVERYONE to see. Transparency of whats being done so customer see's his before power figures and supporting logs... and again, quite often these dont bode well for a remap, and I will not remap sick cars as would'nt anyone sensible, but at that point I can show customers their cars issues with supporting data and logs, (and oil running out of their throttle bodies!) often as to reasons its unsafe to proceed without fixing.

    These checks are always included in my custom remap price. the checks are for my benefit as much as they are for the customers.. Previously I had been mapping a car to get to a point where it was'nt responding as expected, and then did a leak test to find I had been mapping something which had unknown to us been leaking liek a proverbial seive.. Many hours Wasted time for me at that point.

    We have our different approaches to doing tuning.
    I am happy with how I choose to operate.

    To conclude though mark, newer cars wont have developed their faults as yet, but the older ones especially 1.8ts have many issues being 10+ years old.
    #47
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  8. AwesomeMark
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    AwesomeMark New Member

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    Bill

    I do not require your respect as i never even mentioned that our tuning methods were the same, maybe you misread my post, however i am happy that you have your way of checks.

    I don't need to get into an argument or discussion with you over remapping cars as we have experience with both APR and Revo and have learnt valuable information of issues in mapping cars for well over ten years, and have countless experience's in our workshop of what potentially could be an issue.

    If you wish to promote your business over Awesome and put across on here how much more worthy you are then please go ahead, but like i said if you wish to discuss it further rather than from behind a screen both Jim and i are free to talk as we are for any customer too.

    I bid you a great sunny day and all the Best

    Regards Mark
    #48
  9. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Slayer

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    When Bill said about cars getting old and worn out, like the tuners tuning them I can totally relate to that.

    My car is JUST like the tuner who tuned it.

    One day it is AWESOOOOME, then I get in it the next day and it is grumpy, hesitant and pisses its fluids all over the floor.

    :shrug:
    #49
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  10. Gizmo20VT
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    Gizmo20VT Member

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    This thread has derailed somewhat now but I can see why Badger 5 and R tech have growing reputations daily. For myself I would much prefer a map that meets my motors needs then a generic with some fine tunning and be sent on my way... In addition as a normal end user that has minimal techinical knowledge on motors, Im sure they would prefer their Tuner to specify the problems at hand if any and also show them the gains that they have just payed for.
    #50
  11. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    Mark,
    Seeing as you seem to want to elevate this into something more personal....?? As thats how it reads from my perspective seeing Your Written words here..

    You now suggest my post is "promote your business over Awesome" To QUOTE you...
    You are WRONG! - Nope... You reading it thru your "eyes" not from my "words" Mark

    I am saying what I do, and the reasons I "have" to do such checks....... Old cars, many of them have issues.
    The ones you see will be NO DIFFERENT to the ones I see. So if you choose not to do equivalent checks during your "install a map" process there is a Clear and Obvious Difference in approaches between Badger5 and Awesome GTi . ;)

    Thats not promoting my business over and above Awesome GTi.... Its distinguishing a fundermental Process difference in approach. One is more thorough than the other.

    Folks reading this, and those who do the actual tuning hands on, will know fully where I am coming from.


    I have no beef with Awesome, you nor Jim... However, the facts and statements describing my process shows clear diferences.

    Customers will decide which approach they are more comfortable with.. To make that Clear to you Mark, thats not a dig at you/jim/Awesome. ITs applicable to ANY and ALL other tuners of vag's, 1.8t's in particular.... Most dont do the tests I do. Thats not singling anyone out..

    If you remember where/how this thread started and what it was based upon apparent and perceived missing test steps (by others who posted before me). What you described as an Awesome GTi reply, imho falls short of what should be done to be thorough. Yes it takes me longer to do what I do than do what you do. Customers appreciate the extra checks and effort I believe. Its not something to ignore. You will do what you do, I will do what I do... We Both have our customer base and fan base - lol. On the matters here, we shall have to agree to disagree I'm afraid if you believe your process is as good as it can be (and thats not the same as saying "as good as its costed to be!" )


    We all know APR code is sound, and well written generic code. The 10+year old 1.8t's they are installed upon however are not as well... They are old, cantancerous things, with 10+ year old wear and tear and common issues... Good code on worn out car does not make for good performance or reliability remember.



    Makes for some debate.
    No hard feelings Mark/Awsome

    regards
    bill
    #51
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  12. Scullies
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    Scullies Active Member

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    ^^ like a boss
    #52
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  13. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Slayer

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    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2014 at 12:29 PM
    #53
  14. Gizmo20VT
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    Gizmo20VT Member

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    LMFAO [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    #54
  15. AwesomeMark
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    AwesomeMark New Member

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  16. Chlippo
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    Chlippo Member

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    This thread going no where...if we can go back to main subject :)

    Respect for all
    #56
  17. Scullies
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    Scullies Active Member

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    This thread is dead, everyone has had their say.
    At the end of the day its the customers choice

    flash & go
    OR
    custom & know
    #57
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  18. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    LMAO

    This was the original post lest it be forgotten... lol
    #58
  19. AwesomeMark
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    AwesomeMark New Member

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    you beat me to it Bill, Just had my s3 remapped at awesome. One word WOW!!


    #59
  20. kwistof
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    kwistof South East Events Moderator Regional Rep

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    Have to disagree with this comment because everyone hasn't had their say.

    We've heard from the customer, (the OP)
    We've heard from the distributor, (Awesome GTI)
    We've heard from a custom live mapper who also distributed generic maps e.g Revo/CC

    Still haven't heard anything from the creators/developers of the APR remap which I think is a very important part of this topic.

    I'd be interested in how much R&D they put into the map, for each level of tune/stage....and I don't mean for APR maps in general...I mean for our 10+ year olds 8Ls that the majority have done over 100k+ miles in.
    #60
  21. Scullies
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    Scullies Active Member

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    I don't think APR needs to explain their software. Its proven world round with thousands of happy customers. Along with the other big brand names ie REVO, Unitronic, GIAC, etc etc
    I doubt they are developing their software for 1.8t 20v engines, I would assume they are focused on the newer FSI/TSI stuff.

    Its not the software that has fueled this thread, its peoples views on what should/shouldn't be done/checked before a remap is flashed.

    Not everyone driving a 1.8t is interested in what is happening under the bonnet, some people just want a HP figure that they can wave around in the pub. Other people, I would assume most of the people on here, are interested in whats happening under the bonnet.

    As Bill has said these cars are old and buy reading some of his comments about the cars he has work on. Most of them suffer from tired fuel pump/MAF/dirty injectors/carbon build up/boost leaks/faulty N75/worn turbos and the list goes on as we all know to well.
    That's why some K04's make 260hp and a few make 280hp.

    I really can't see the mainstream tuning companies spending time fine tuning a 10+ year old motor, unless you really want to pay for it, which might end up with a rather stretched poop shoot :sex:
    #61
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  22. kwistof
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    kwistof South East Events Moderator Regional Rep

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    It was this comment that provoked me into wanting more information from APR tbh, as we still haven't heard from them-

    I was after some more information about 'how much work goes into an APR map' specifically for out 1.8t cars - and what goes on behind the scenes.

    Just generally interested in the whole process...e.g car they used, the mods, the conditions, mileage it had on it etc - because realistically in my eyes that map will always work best with the 'donor' car/engine it was originally made for. Happy to be 'schooled' so to speak as I'm not completely clued up no how these generic maps come about and if they get updated/changed....

    Yep - most of the people on here are generally interested in what happens with the 1.8t under the bonnet.....I think the majority of people you're on about all drive S-line Audi's now :icon_thumright:
    #62
  23. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    LOL indeed.

    followed by....
    LOL
    #63
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  24. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Slayer

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    New Bill is a right laugh.

    Why don't you say what you really think? :undwech:
    #64
  25. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    no need

    thats what you always do is'nt it?
    :)
    #65
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  26. slowcoach3
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    slowcoach3 Member

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    I find your holy than thou attitude a bit rude Bill. When I came as a newbie to the k04 scene to Badger 5 to get a map from the demi god himself, I didn't get a smoke test despite an apparently obvious leak. You then mapped my car with a dead maf, without the fpr plumbed in and without there being a camshaft window on the end of the camshaft. Surprisingly the car still produced 210 on the dyno when I first arrived, when the map was put on it all went awry and I asked you to return it to a stock file to which you told me its impossible. I should have been sent packing with all these faults but you were quite happy to take my dosh.
    Normally I just tell fellow car folk that I meet or friends I know and recommend anybody else that wants a map to go ANYWHERE other than B5 but I find you bashing another company such as you have unfair when you are hardly faultless.
    #66
  27. Paradox1
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    Paradox1 Active Member

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    lol:whistle2:
    #67
  28. AwesomeMark
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    AwesomeMark New Member

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    Oh so not all is how it is spelled out PMSL
    #68
  29. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    OK Guys, lets not make this a p!ss!ng contest now, as with all things in retail, no one is perfect! You are bound to get a few unhappy customers along the way, but the rest of the 95%+ customers are happy.

    What I dislike about the internet and social sites in general, is the way bad news goes round so quickly these days! You could have 100% satisfaction one day, but one false move, your rep would be in tatters! I'd not hesitate using B5 or Awesome personally.

    I must applaud both companies for making time to post their input on here though! How many other companies out there would have the time of day for this?

    As you were. :beerchug:
    #69
  30. AwesomeMark
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    AwesomeMark New Member

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    I don't understand what's so funny about the inter cooler pipe popping off Bill, the amount of petrol and diesel maps we do a month I'm sure we will get the odd pipe popping off, it was quite a quick fix and the customer was on his way ?
    #70
  31. AwesomeMark
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    AwesomeMark New Member

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    I totally agree with jojo
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
    #71
  32. AwesomeHassan
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    AwesomeHassan Member

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    Bill have you never had a boost pipe blow off on you before?
    I have had them blown off in standard form, let alone stage 2.

    The technician took the car on a road test and all was fine.
    We could of had the car on the rollers without any hoses blowing off.
    It could of ended up blowing off on the motorway, unfortunately these things happen.
    A smoke test will not tell you if a boost pipe is going to blow off.

    We rectified the hose and the customer went away happy.
    Our Saturdays book up very fast and booking is around 4-5 weekends in advance.
    The customer wanted to go on the rollers, i wanted the customer to go on the rollers unfortunately it could not happen due to the workshop being fully booked up.

    Why would we want to turn down business? If the car did not make the power we would know it would be the car, as we know APR software makes the numbers.
    This would only give us more work to do. surely that cant be a bad thing?
    #72
  33. AwesomeHassan
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    AwesomeHassan Member

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    well said jojo
    #73
  34. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    And there we have it! The answer to all this madness!! lol

    I think the initial response based on the OPs first post was, he had his car remapped to stage2, then it blew a hose off on the way home or something? He forgot to mention you guys fixed it all up for him and made his way home a happy chap! :racer:
    #74
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  35. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    What the hell are you on about???
    Impossible for what you claim to be true, sorry.. You are way way mistaken.

    You are talking crap! I do not operate like this EVER...
    #75
  36. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    Sh1t does indeed happen..... There's bumper stickers confirm it ;)
    Pipes do indeed blow off sometimes
    Coil packs do also pop after remap
    Maf's can also fail after remap

    The point of the LOL, was the post " Awesome work, and happy customer", followed by a
    Oh the irony.. eh?

    You clearly missed that humour point - I found it funny...

    Maybe just me..

    Whatever............

    and as for
    If its loose enough to pop off with boost, who's to say the obviously loose clip was not going to show itself during a smoke test...........
    #76
  37. slowcoach3
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    slowcoach3 Member

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    I had a friend with me who also witnessed thw whole day. I take great offence to being called a liar.Revo were so upset by the conduct of one of their agents acting like that that they paid for the mapto be finished elsewhere , they also paid the same garage to try and get to the bottom of the timing fault, turned out to be the missing cam window. I gained alot of respect for the way revo conduct their business. excuse the spelling im on my phone which is crap
    #77
  38. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    Firstly I have no Idea WHO you are...
    Secondly, this is the first I hear of anything of the such, so pardon me for being somewhat taken aback by reading this.
    All this happened and yet no one had ever said anything to me until you choose to bring it up now??? Really?

    No way would I have allowed this to have occurred in the way you describe it... There will be more to this than you post here I am sure.. I dont remember you or your car, or when this was all supposed to have happened.

    As per pm I have sent you, whats your name and car reg... so I can piece this together.
    It simply cannot be as you describe it here..
    #78
  39. slowcoach3
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    slowcoach3 Member

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    PM replied to.
    As i said ill check the teg when i get home as now on a private plate. When i got thete you dyno'd it made 209.8 on the print out i have. You remarked it was running lean, had a look under the bonnet and you found a dodgy hose on the n249. Itwas lean because the fpr was not attached under the mani. You also said dead maf and tried to get another one from ecp/tps but couldn't went ahead with map anyway, was throwing horrible blocks of 7 and 8's, said you'd never seen that before. Car now running 155 bhp on the revo map. at this point i said enoughs enough, it isnt working please put it back to standard. You told me this was impossible. Revo told me a couple of days later that every revo seller has every single necessary stock map on fil. As i said i had a mate, Pat, with me and why would i lie??!!
    #79
  40. AwesomeMark
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    AwesomeMark New Member

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    Hassan got it right to cap it off, if we had logged and smoke tested the car it would have passed ALL these tests with flying colours. Put in a couple of extra PSI boost and its a different story. You cannot check every nut and bolt on an inspection, with the experience Awesome has we can pick up on issues on cars that other less experienced tuners would miss. APR development is done on healthy cars and produce 'conservative' power that does not stretch reliability . The tech that checks the car gives feedback to the customer and the ultimate decision is with the customer. We refuse many 'unhealthy' cars that we inspect, as why would we want to put Awesome name on a potential 'time bomb' ? We are a business with defined ethics and we are here for the long haul and not for a quick buck. We don't always get it right as nobody does, however we also do not pounce on single, unforeseen issues and make them into a Drama.


    Also on the subject of custom mapping, people on here are being told they are getting a tailored map designed specifically for their exact car ? I doubt very much you put in anything more than pre written files with Different tweaks . If anyone has seen the R&D that goes on behind the scenes at companies like APR and Revo, they would see why 'custom' maps are not required. These tuners make software for specific hardware mods and they make repeatable power/torque figures. These tuners have put probably millions of 'reliable' miles on cars with their software and that is the acid test. By someone doing a 'custom' map, what legacy have they got to prove its pedigree ? So to conclude my comparison between generic and custom mapping, for 99% of drivers, a generic map from a reputable tuner of the drivers choice is the way to go. These tuners nearly always have a progression path to a stage 2 option by installing certain hardware to take you to another level. For the drivers who want to do it a completely different way, a custom map is the only way to go. This group are a small percentage of the modified drivers in existence and are probably the ones who have the ability to re build their own cars when they exceed the limits !
    #80
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