Stage 2+ Advice needed

[Alex_Wil]

Hi,

Staying at stage 1 didn't last long and no point going to stage 2 so thought ill go stage 2+!

Can people give me some advice on what id need as the minimum??

I've already got and going to get the below:

Already have

Cai
Miltek Cat back
Stage 1 remap
GFB DV+

Going to get

FMIC Airtec - STAGE 2 intercooler
LOBA Fuel pump
Milltek Sports cat and downpipe (200 cell high quality sports cat )
AmD map stage 2 upgrade
DSG Software upgrade


Will I get away with getting the above and not having to change anything else ? - I will eventually get brakes and suspension done but want to make sure car will run ok having that done first?

Any advice would be great.

Cheers

Alex

 

[Brodster]

PM sent

 

[S3Alex]

Hi,

Staying at stage 1 didn't last long and no point going to stage 2 so thought ill go stage 2+!

Can people give me some advice on what id need as the minimum??

I've already got and going to get the below:

Already have

Cai
Miltek Cat back
Stage 1 remap
GFB DV+

Going to get

FMIC Airtec - STAGE 2 intercooler
LOBA Fuel pump
Milltek Sports cat and downpipe (200 cell high quality sports cat )
AmD map stage 2 upgrade
DSG Software upgrade


Will I get away with getting the above and not having to change anything else ? - I will eventually get brakes and suspension done but want to make sure car will run ok having that done first?

Any advice would be great.

Cheers

Alex

Hi Alex,

I didn't last long at Stg 1 either!
The choices you've laid out should be fine....the intercooler is good,and will work well,and the Loba HPFP is well priced for a complete pump.

The other parts you'll need,apart from the exhaust,you already have,so you're basically halfway there already.
AMD would not only check the car over,but also set the mapping up properly before giving the car back to you,so it will work,but as you say,having the brakes and suspension done are also essential,if you're going to get the most out of it.

Enjoy it.

Alex.

 

[Alex_Wil]

Hi Alex,

I didn't last long at Stg 1 either!
The choices you've laid out should be fine....the intercooler is good,and will work well,and the Loba HPFP is well priced for a complete pump.

The other parts you'll need,apart from the exhaust,you already have,so you're basically halfway there already.
AMD would not only check the car over,but also set the mapping up properly before giving the car back to you,so it will work,but as you say,having the brakes and suspension done are also essential,if you're going to get the most out of it.

Enjoy it.

Alex.

Cheers Alex

Any advice on what brakes and suspension and cost?

 

[S3Alex]

Cheers Alex

Any advice on what brakes and suspension and cost?

Budget on at least £1200 for a brake kit,up to £3k if you want Alcon brakes,and around £1200 for a decent set of coilovers like the kWv3 or similar.

DaveB1970 may have some brake deals,so drop him or N8 a PM first.

 

[Muzza80]

I'd seriously consider what you will be doing with the car before you go spending £2500 on brakes and coilovers.

For the 40-50 extra BHP/Torque that stage 2+ brings, contrary to popular opinion, unless you're doing regular track work or have endless pots of money going spare then you may well find that you don't need a BBK and coilovers....

A good pad, disc, lines and fluid upgrade will be a big improvement on the standard brakes and some springs, arbs with a good set of upgrade shocks like Bilstein B8's or Koni FSD again will be a huge improvement over standard.

 

[S3Alex]

I'd seriously consider what you will be doing with the car before you go spending £2500 on brakes and coilovers.

For the 40-50 extra BHP/Torque that stage 2+ brings, contrary to popular opinion, unless you're doing regular track work or have endless pots of money going spare then you may well find that you don't need a BBK and coilovers....

A good pad, disc, lines and fluid upgrade will be a big improvement on the standard brakes and some springs, arbs with a good set of upgrade shocks like Bilstein B8's or Koni FSD again will be a huge improvement over standard.

Good advice, in many senses....I kind of went the whole hog,as I knew what I wanted from the car in the end,and I think you can save yourself money if you know how far you're going to go,and have the good sense to stop there(I clearly didnt!).

I don't think that that uprated pads however,make much difference to the S3's brakes,which are heavy and prone to fade,but the comments re ARBs etc are spot on.

 

[Alex_Wil]

I wouldn't be doing regular track work - my aim is to get the car to stage 2+ and keep it there but making it as solid as possible rather than over stretching everything.

butttt in the long term will I get to stage 2+ and want move and find myself back tracking.

If I kept the car at stage 2+ and wanted to keep it solid what would be the best option for ARBs, brakes and suspension without spending loads on parts I wouldn't need?

 

[S3_Mat]

I'd seriously consider what you will be doing with the car before you go spending £2500 on brakes and coilovers.

For the 40-50 extra BHP/Torque that stage 2+ brings, contrary to popular opinion, unless you're doing regular track work or have endless pots of money going spare then you may well find that you don't need a BBK and coilovers....

A good pad, disc, lines and fluid upgrade will be a big improvement on the standard brakes and some springs, arbs with a good set of upgrade shocks like Bilstein B8's or Koni FSD again will be a huge improvement over standard.

Good advice Murray, although I find the stock brakes very prone to fade even at stage 1. It comes down to driving style and how long you sustain your hard driving. Some roads near me if i'm out for a spirited drive can mean several hard stops down gradients and towards the end i have to back off because i'm leaning on the brakes alot more to get the desired effect. That being said if your stage 2+ and all you do is A roads/motorways with short bursts of speed its not needed. Good brakes kits wont reduce your stopping distance over stock.. better tyre's will. Its how they cope with repeated high speed stops that make them worth the money.

 

[Muzza80]

Good advice, in many senses....I kind of went the whole hog,as I knew what I wanted from the car in the end,and I think you can save yourself money if you know how far you're going to go,and have the good sense to stop there(I clearly didnt!).

I don't think that that uprated pads however,make much difference to the S3's brakes,which are heavy and prone to fade,but the comments re ARBs etc are spot on.

I had Alcons on a previous Stage 3+ Astra VXR, great brakes but completely wasted as at the time I didn't track my car.

Next two cars I uprated the discs, pads, lines and fluid and for the handful of track days I do each year it was more than adequate.

Put it like this, 10-12 lap sessions of Knockhill in reverse direction coming downhill at over 110mph heavy on the brakes into a left hand hairpin, a little over one minute laps and not a hint of fade, they got hot enough to change the colour of the caliper paint from red to black but no fade at all, this was DS2500 with braided lines and 5.1 fluid in a 300bhp (350lb/ft) Focus ST-3 which weights about 100kg less than the S3 so not THAT different.

Pads, lines and importantly fluid that wont boil can make all the difference.

 

[S3_Mat]

Alcons are probably overkill, but you can get a decent custom porsche brembo 18z set up or ttrs brakes for a fraction of an alcon setup. I hear what your saying and that does sound like a pretty brutal test. What discs were they out of interested? Stock discs would warp I'm sure with that punishment.

 

[Muzza80]

I wouldn't be doing regular track work - my aim is to get the car to stage 2+ and keep it there but making it as solid as possible rather than over stretching everything.

butttt in the long term will I get to stage 2+ and want move and find myself back tracking.

If I kept the car at stage 2+ and wanted to keep it solid what would be the best option for ARBs, brakes and suspension without spending loads on parts I wouldn't need?

I'll tell you what I've done/am doing:

Brakes:
Tarox discs all round
Brembo HP2000 or Ferrodo DS2500 pads all round
Braided lines (more for firmer pedal feel than performance improvement)
Super DOT4 fluid

Suspension/handling:

Whiteline 24mm RARB
Eibach pro-kit springs
Bilstein B8 dampers
Whiteline ALK
Lower engine mount insert
Front control arm front bushes
HPA Gen 4 Haldex race controller

Good advice Murray, although I find the stock brakes very prone to fade even at stage 1. It comes down to driving style and how long you sustain your hard driving. Some roads near me if i'm out for a spirited drive can mean several hard stops down gradients and towards the end i have to back off because i'm leaning on the brakes alot more to get the desired effect. That being said if your stage 2+ and all you do is A roads/motorways with short bursts of speed its not needed. Good brakes kits wont reduce your stopping distance over stock.. better tyre's will. Its how they cope with repeated high speed stops that make them worth the money.

Maybe it's just me or my driving style but honestly I don't think they're that bad even in standard form, no amazing but I've owned and driven cars with way worse standard brakes, I even had my Focus at the Nurburgring with standard brakes and honestly, they were not that bad, you just need to be smooth, pick your lines well and don't ride the brakes. Where do you think all these standard hatches get tested!?

You're bang on about tyres though!

 

[Muzza80]

Alcons are probably overkill, but you can get a decent custom porsche brembo 18z set up or ttrs brakes for a fraction of an alcon setup. I hear what your saying and that does sound like a pretty brutal test. What discs were they out of interested? Stock discs would warp I'm sure with that punishment.

Stock Ford discs mate, same on my Scooby, stock discs but with STI Brembo calipers and PF Z-rated pads.

Maybe I just drive like a fairy lol Always seem to pass plenty of "exotic" cars though... fast fairy?

 

[S3Alex]

I think I must drive badly...LOL.

I managed to fairly well cook a set of DS2500s on a track day and get the brakes to begin to fade.

Changing to AP rotors and 1155 pads cured that.

 

[warren_S5]

I did Stg2+ on my first S3 and it was only at the Ring I found running standard brakes to be a catastrophic oversight. Half way round the lap the steering column was vibrating and the fade was awful (and I'm not naturally a heavy braker). To underline this I've done 25,000 miles on original pads on current S3 (with Stg2) and they still have plenty of meat on them! On roads they're fine, on the track they're nowhere near up to the job.

The suspension mods really help settle the car (springs / mounts /ARB), I didn't do coilovers as I think they're overkill on the road.

Start building up a slush fund for drivetrain replacements (clutch /DMF / bearings etc.), as that will closely follow Stg2+.

 

[S3_Mat]

I have cheddar gorge near me and going up is better than down on the brakes for obvious reasons. Its a testing road for brakes if you really pin it. Anyway we all should be using the gears to slow down and brakes for emergencies but it just seems the emergencies are of our own doing!

I might sort a track day out soon once the suspension mods are done but I'm sure the weak point will be brakes.

 

[S3_Mat]

I think I must drive badly...LOL.

I managed to fairly well cook a set of DS2500s on a track day and get the brakes to begin to fade.

Changing to AP rotors and 1155 pads cured that.

Was this after the BT conversion though

 

[S3Alex]

Was this after the BT conversion though

Yes....so that may be part of me driving badly!