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Stacey's Belated Yo Yo Build Thread

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by StaceyS3, Feb 7, 2012.

  1. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Jul 18, 2013]
    Is the metal bearing cage pricey? I notice stacey mentions £500 for an uprated cage, must be a typo surely.

    regardless of the mishaps, the spool looks nice on those graphs, i cant see the rpm, but looks good.
  2. ScottD3
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    ScottD3 I want your faulty electronics

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    [Jul 18, 2013]
    Hopefully ATP will replace it. If they do, what's the chances of them fitting metal cages?
    If they don't, is it worth Stacey sending it off to get the plastic cages replaced before fitting again?
  3. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Jul 18, 2013]
    Garrett do not supply spares. they do an exchange programme on chra

    std garretts come with plastic cages
  4. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Jul 18, 2013]
    My cost price for getting a metal cage bearing fitted, which includes strip down, removal of old bearing and fitting of new, rebalancing, is £420-£450 with Owens.
  5. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    [Jul 18, 2013]
    Opinions Guys?

    Like Bill said **** sandwich all round!

    Obviously a huge part of me feels it should be replaced FOC and just send it back to ATP but whilst i know its over a year old and most turbo suppliers will blame the usual causes regardless (oil cantamination/starvation) to get out of it

    If ATP deem it a component failure it will be replaced FOC and will get a new turbo, if they dont i have to pay $7xx for a exchange core and over £100 in shipping to end up with a brand new turbo but still the usual plastic cage?

    Could just send it to Owens for the metal bearing upgrade which i'd really quite like for piece of mind but if they find any other damage on the shaft from the bearings spinning or on either wheel then i need an exchange core which iirc is £650+vat and don't think i'll stand a hope in hell at a warrenty claim with ATP once has been apart?

    Dan has very kindly offered to step in and help out by replacing the bearings with an aftermarket one at cost price as he hasn't personally used or tested them but these bearings have ceramic balls with a plastic cage

    I'm taking a risk which ever option i go for but a big part of me feels like fighting it and kicking up a fuss but even though i have found ATP's customer service has been very good with me in the past am i just barking up the wrong tree?

    What would you do??
  6. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Jul 18, 2013]
    i wouldnt open it up until atp has seen it. that would be my first port of call, because really you should have no trouble with warranty replacement, and postage cost is better than chra cost.

    Its just that once its sorted, you then have the decision to try again with the plastic cage, or upgrade.
    I cant find much on plastic bearing cage failures, is it really that common?
  7. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Jul 18, 2013]
    If I was you Stace I'd try to send it back first. If that fails then its time to investigate the other options.
  8. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    [Jul 18, 2013]
    Think i'll prob try my luck with ATP but its officially out of the warrenty period anyways due to being puchased Jan 2012 :(

    Have just found this and have messaged them about they're bearings as they contain ceramic balls and metal cages :)
  9. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Jul 18, 2013]
    found this? missing link ?
  10. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Jul 18, 2013]
    In motorsport, yes.. which is why the likes of Owens who I use, strongly advise their use else they will fail.. Not might, will fail from the heat. 1.8t environment is uber hot.. sat at back of motor, between bulkhead, tight to everything... and no cooling air passing by.. Crank them up, inevitable heat.. and no where to go. :(

    I believe you can order the GT garrett with the metal cages and potentially ceramic ball races also.... I know when I ordered a T3T4/57trim a few years ago I added roller bearing chra to the spec and it was metal caged bearing race.. even on an old T series turbo.

    Thermo plastic (no matter its ceramic content, be it peek or whatever) is still Thermo_Plastic.. Formed by heat and injection moulding.
    900+deg only mm away from the CHRA, heat conducting from the turbine and shaft.... Its one hell of an environment to work in.. EAK!
  11. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    [Jul 18, 2013]
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2013
  12. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 18, 2013]
  13. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Jul 18, 2013]
    [​IMG]

    Snap./. lmao..

    great minds dude
    <tuffty/> likes this.
  14. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Jul 18, 2013]
    New silicone nitride ball bearing packs available | Turbocare

    just found this.... on a forum........ turbo bearings [Archive] - SnoWest Snowmobile Forum no idea of validity but................

  15. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 18, 2013]
  16. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Jul 18, 2013]
  17. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Jul 18, 2013]
    I found that above extract today on a gtr owners club thread.
  18. Sam_
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    Sam_ Down under

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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    Maybe I should get mine done before I fit it then? My GTX has already done 4,000km on a Golf R but I guess it can't harm?

    Those dudes on Facebook you linked are in Perth over here. Handy.
  19. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    Cheers for the links guys theyre an interesting read :)

    Will have a chat with Dan in a bit about the metal/ceramic bearing option followed by some sort of contact with the companies and will go from there....
  20. Scullies
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    Scullies Well-Known Member

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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    Instead of shipping it back to the supplier, maybe they would be willing to let a reputable company in the UK check the turbo and give them their feedback. Then if it needs a new chra they could send one over. Worth a try :)
    If they do replace it under warranty, I would still get the bearing changed out on the new turbo. Then you have piece of mind that the internals are all new and up to the job.
  21. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    My K04 doesn't have these kinds of problems :whistle2:
    Paradox1 and Jason.s like this.
  22. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    I was hoping ATP would let another company in the UK do this but they have insisted that it has to go back to them, which ever way it turns with them it will be a new CHRA just depends whos wallet its coming out of?

    Am going to be enquiring about the ceramic and metal bearings and will go from there :)
  23. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    Haha funny boy, do sometimes wish had stayed K04

    We all seem to have problems, some with brand new turbos that **** the bed and others that want to burn theyre cars after an egt bung coming out ;)
    rhubarb4, superkarl and s3dave like this.
  24. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    [​IMG]

    Because Big Turbo....

    <tuffty/>
    s3dave, Dani_B19 and Scullies like this.
  25. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    just teething problems, it's only because you have it all documented that it seems like it all goes wrong, Trust me all of these big builds have their own selection of issues, Tuffty's and mine included ( ok i'm not strickly BT But...) Keep on at them, maybe if they are going to replace chra, you can pay the extra to get a decent bearing pack in it
  26. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Jul 19, 2013]
    Haha ^awesome^
  27. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Jul 19, 2013]

    LMAO

    touche
  28. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    [Jul 21, 2013]
    Yeah always going to find issues with something thats just been built especially with used parts that are unknown to me....just really wasnt expecting a brand new unit to fail especially when its supposed to be a top of the line turbo

    Really wish I could of got the car to a running state and sorted all the teething issues like the last build before dropping it in bills lap, but wasnt possible without the turbo lines

    Found another link for some bearing bits

    http://www.turbodynamic.net/content/products.php?cat=turbo&subcat=service kit

    Will hopefully be disscussing options with dan tommorrow, think I may just try and switch the bearings, main thing I need to find out if theres scores in the shaft or any other damage? if it is the case would it be possible to reasemble it to send for an exchange chra?

    Sort of car related....well the man cave actually but as its where bits will be worked on in future thought id chuck it up :)

    Made a wheel rack to try and create some space, have made it wide enough to accept 4 9' wide wheels and 255 tyres should I ever decide to go wider

    [​IMG]

    Also made a little workbench which has now got a vice on there which will be a lot easier than trying to stand on the vice to hold it like I used to in the flat carpark lol

    [​IMG]
  29. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 21, 2013]
    My personal view on your turbo is this... if the turbine and comp wheel look untouched (there was no binding or scraping when spinning the unit that I saw/heard) and ATP cannot commit to a straight replacement then I would just get the bearing swapped and be done with it... you would have to consider doing the same on any new unit anyway so why not cut out the expense and time of all this and get to the end game of fitting a decent metal caged bearing and be done...

    Not inspected the unit fully myself (think its currently boxed up) but if the wheels haven't touched the housings at all (simply removing the housings will say for sure) then I just think a straight bearing swap and rebalance will get it back up to spec... and at less cost and time than anything else

    Just my tuppence :)

    <tuffty/>
  30. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    [Jul 21, 2013]
    Am definately thinking along this riute now and should hopefully be trying something with dan if we can get hold of some decent bearings

    The more and more I think about it and read up its looking less and less likely that ATP will support in any way or form, apart from taking it apart and offering a new exchange core for the standard core exchange price which I will do if its anything more than bearings.....just need to know wether it can be reasembled after without warrenty tags or something of that nature disturbed ;)
  31. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 21, 2013]
    If you want warranty etc then tbh it may be just worth speaking to Owens as they are the UK dealer for Garrett and this is where Bill gets his done... I am sure Dan could prob sort something a little cheaper but Owens mod is race proven at least and available now...

    <tuffty/>
  32. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Jul 23, 2013]
    Comparisons of spool between 1781cc GT30 and 2008cc GTX30 and K26 from before...
    (remember the GTX30 is'nt remotely finished in terms of mapping)

    As requested by Stacey
    [​IMG]
  33. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    [Jul 23, 2013]
    Cheers Bill :)

    Am extremely shocked that in its current unfinished state that the bhp and torque pretty much follow my old setup low down which is really comforting to know and its something i can really compare it to

    Admitedly the old setup was 8.5:1 cr and 1825cc compared to 9.5:1(ish) cr and 2008cc but am really pleased that although can see the lag difference between the 2 turbos the performance of the engine makes up for it and is a very simular output at the lower rev range

    Also my other fears of the bigger GTX series being deemed as laggy and fairly unresponsive is not any more as that seems pretty good compared to the gt30's.

    I know not comparing apples to apples but had feared that the gtx paired with a .82 ar housing was going to be pretty sluggish after hearing peoples reviews on vortex who really dont seem that fond of the gtx30?

    As Bill said theres more to come but i wanted to be able to make a comparison to the k26 to get an idea of how it will be like and to possibly aid a decision :)
  34. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    [Jul 30, 2013]
    Cant wait to get it back now and enjoy it :)

    My dad dropped my AD08's off the other day and looking at them reminded me that I need to sort out my team dynamics alloys as they seem to have got a bit beaten up in the move and all now need a respray

    Am now unsure of the colour as they're currently artic white but am even contemplating anthracite or black, they will be used for summer and track at the mo but plan on eventually using these most of the year round and selling the 19's followed by aquiring some 17's for track once the yokos are toast.....whats your guys thoughts?

    Is anyone able to do a couple of photoshopped pics with white td's on a black s3 as really couldn't find much on google?

    Just a couple of pics of the sticky rubber I can't wait to abuse and the alloys :)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  35. Jay A3
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    Jay A3 More power

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    [Jul 30, 2013]
    Love it to be anthraicte!
  36. basil brush
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    basil brush Active Member

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    [Jul 30, 2013]
    Get the anthracite kit off eBay that I used in my 16's it's cheap and easy to get a good finish ;)
    [​IMG]
    Item number 261127353148 on the bay and only 13.99 and its enough to do all 4 with some left over :D
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2013
    superkarl likes this.
  37. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Jul 30, 2013]
    was that anthracite a base + lacquer system?
  38. basil brush
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    basil brush Active Member

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    [Jul 30, 2013]
    sure was bill , satin base so easy to get right and a clear uv stable lacquer that's very easy to work with providing its warm ;)
    baz
  39. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    [Jul 30, 2013]
    Anthracite it is then :)

    I also need to fill a gouge in one of the alloy spokes as when tidying the garage I managed to knock the stack over and one fell into the workbench :facepalm:

    Anyone reconmend a filler?
  40. basil brush
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    basil brush Active Member

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    [Jul 30, 2013]
    Same company does an alloy repair putty I'll get the number up in a minute ;)

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