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Speeding Points - Poll

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Geordie Mike, Nov 28, 2006.

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How many points do you have on your license?

Poll closed Dec 31, 2006.
  1. 0

    156 vote(s)
    68.4%
  2. 1-3

    48 vote(s)
    21.1%
  3. 4-6

    15 vote(s)
    6.6%
  4. 7-9

    6 vote(s)
    2.6%
  5. 10-12+

    3 vote(s)
    1.3%
  1. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Nov 29, 2006]
    Everything I said was purely based on real world experience I'm afraid, so quite difficult to argue against, as you obviously found out.
    Points on licence SP30/SP50 do not effect your insurance premium. The insurance companies have the data and they know that in most cases points on licence (FP's) bears no relation to accident risk, thus no increase in premium. You'll get the odd ins co. that'll try it on, but that's just an indication that its time to change insurers.
    Just to be clear for the slower readers, I'm talking purely about fixed penalties for most drivers i.e. aged 25-50 with no prior convictions and no recent accidents.
    Yes I have 9 points but as I've said in recent posts I do 25k miles a year and haven't had an accident for 15 years and my premium is now lower than it's ever been at £428 including business cover on a group 17 2.8Q. I'm sure you'd rather be driving next to Mrs Miggins aged 78 with a clean licence but who can barely see over the steering wheel, rarely drives anywhere, has no confidence and panics when it rains but judging from your comments common sense is not your strong point.
    #41
  2. Geordie Mike
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    Geordie Mike Yeee-haw

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    [Nov 29, 2006]
    It is true, my insurance went down when I went to renew with 3 points. They said they didn't care for 3 but did for 6, and this was in 2000.

    Also, the reason your insurance goes down with named drivers like your mam is because your total mileage stays the same. They then assume that the lower risk driver (you mam) will drive a proportion of the mileage you have said you will cover in a year, so the overall risk of an accident/claim is lower. Had the missus on insurance from day 1 and she must have driven 10 miles in 8 years...

    Mike
    #42
  3. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Nov 29, 2006]
    My wifes insurance actually went down with me added to her policy, I couldn't believe it as everyone knows what a nightmare I am behind the wheel! She did pick up 6 points in one hit though so shouldn't really be on the road at all.
    #43
  4. silver75
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    silver75 Big Ron

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    [Nov 29, 2006]
    3 points for me shouldve been 6 but my dad took 3 of them. Cant believe the majority of people have no points :ohmy:
    #44
  5. a4sline190
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    a4sline190 Member

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    [Nov 29, 2006]
    And common sense is is your strong point :uhm:
    #45
  6. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Nov 29, 2006]
    Ouch!
    #46
  7. smitch
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    smitch Active Member

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    [Nov 29, 2006]
    I think it depends on where you live. if you live and drive more in cities there's more cozzers around than in more rural areas. Plus if you live in london the Met'll throw the book at you for anything, then when it hits the floor have you for littering. Fuckers.
    :rulez:
    #47
  8. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Nov 29, 2006]
    It's also very dependent on when you drive. If you only normally drive at rush hour you're pretty safe (you can't generally speed anyway even if you wanted to). Mobile speed traps, down south anyway, only seem to be present 10-4. Same for the motorways. I don't have a problem with fixed camera's correctly positioned as they generally don't catch anyone, but mobile traps should not be tolerated as if they are genuinely trying to improve road safety then surely the "blackspot" deserves a fixed camera. They can't have it both ways. And a mobile trap on an empty motorway is just mindlessly pointless.
    #48
  9. silver75
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    silver75 Big Ron

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    [Nov 29, 2006]
    ??
    Im refering to the poll. I cant believe the majority of people who have voted have no points.
    #49
  10. smitch
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    smitch Active Member

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    [Nov 29, 2006]
    I was driving to Aldershot on the A31 this morning towing a caravan on the back of our L200 doing 75-80 mph, on the way back on the other side of the dual carriageway was one of those mobile speed camera vans.:scared2:

    I was pretty lucky considering the limit is 60 mph when towing!

    Fortunately the pick up's white with no sign writing so they probably wouln't pull me on the grounds that i looked like a pikey.......
    #50
  11. Onlyme
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    Onlyme Member

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    [Nov 29, 2006]
    Regarding Insurance the company i was with wanted £200 extra for the six points i got so shopped around and got it £20 cheaper than last years policy with no points on it.

    109.98 mph on motorway, got 6 points and £385 fine :drag:

    P.S it wasnt in my avatar that i was doing this speed as that old mule only does 5mph max
    #51
  12. silver75
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    silver75 Big Ron

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    [Nov 29, 2006]
    [​IMG]

    this you?
    #52
  13. rodenal
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    rodenal Active Member

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    [Nov 29, 2006]
    stopped by the fuzz who were aggressively driving up behind me on a dark motorway for doing 70 in a 50, cheeky bastards

    got 4 points for my massive crime too
    #53
  14. smitch
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    smitch Active Member

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    [Nov 29, 2006]
    Ha Ha!!!!

    No, i like daaaaaags not cats.
    #54
  15. VeeDub Geezer
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    VeeDub Geezer Ex-20v Coupe Owner

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    [Nov 29, 2006]
    looks like thats the only pussy he'll be getting anytime soon...
    #55
  16. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Nov 29, 2006]
    Wow! This issue over getting someone else to 'fess up and take the points for your speeding offence has certainly got everyone in a lather.

    I can understand why Andymac holds the point of view he does, but I'm also conscious that I gave Pimp a hard time over this last year. So, much as I respect the Big Mac, it would be hypocritical of me (and unfair to Pimp) now to say that the cynical way the Police enforce speeding justifies getting someone else to take the rap. So, I'm in the "can't do the time..." camp on this one.
    #56
  17. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Nov 29, 2006]
    Jeff, it's not like you to be wrong! (joke)
    I've never actually done this, but I would if it meant I would keep my licence. If any of you "saints" out there were in the same position you'd be both stupid and lying if you claim you wouldn't do the same.
    It's a little different if you have 0, 3 or 6 points and just don't want anymore or you're young and you don't want the hit on your insurance. That's just money.
    I'm talking about losing your licence/job/livelihood/house etc. I've been there and done that and I don't recommend it.
    I think it's highly hypocritical to lambast people who have done this to protect their licence, when the very same people will slow down for speed camera's. How is that any different? And don't say you've never slowed down for a camera.
    If you were speeding you were doing the crime so why slow down? What a wimp, take it like a man, it's big boys rules out there etc etc
    #57
  18. jjclarke1
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    jjclarke1 AN AUDI ISN'T JUST FOR CHRISTMAS

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    [Nov 29, 2006]
    dont speeding points now stay on your licence for four years now instead of 3 years?
    #58
  19. marmite
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    marmite Counting the Tesco Club points

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    [Nov 29, 2006]
    Have a word at AMD for a remap!! :) :idea: :)
    #59
  20. silver75
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    silver75 Big Ron

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    [Nov 30, 2006]
    I did it to as I have had my licence under 2 years, meaning six points and I would lose it.
    #60
  21. smitch
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    smitch Active Member

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    [Nov 30, 2006]
    **** it, if you can get off do it, that's what i say.

    You'd have to be some sort of martyr to take the flack if someone else is willing to take the fall for you.
    #61
  22. grant_coupe
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    grant_coupe Member

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    [Nov 30, 2006]
    I got 3 points for parking my car with 2 wheels (just over) touching a zig zag line on a zebra crossing. I got done at half 12 in the morning on a quiet night. police man was an A*** Hole. No need for it.
    #62
  23. M4KTT
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    M4KTT Member

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    [Nov 30, 2006]
    Ive had 6points SP50 for 102 on an empty motorway.. with a £500 fine.

    my insurance is high enough being a young(25) single male with a liverpool postcode. ins is due up in april and It'll have been 5 years since i got them so no need to declare anymore..so hopefully my £1600 a year piece of paper will drop a little..maybe under 1000 for the first time!
    #63
  24. Adams3
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    Adams3 Member

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    [Dec 1, 2006]
    9 points for me and not proud of it!!
    #64
  25. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 1, 2006]
    No points must be either driving miss daisy/speed camera knowledge/very very clever
    #65
  26. Geordie Mike
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    Geordie Mike Yeee-haw

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    [Dec 1, 2006]
    Isn't it weird how there is about a factor of 3 between all the levels? I thought there would be far more folks on 3 points
    #66
  27. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 2, 2006]
    I think it's a bit like the JD Power survey, (you can only be bothered to vote if you hate your car or love it), so we're only getting the best and the worst with nothing in between.
    #67
  28. mintie
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    mintie Member

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    [Dec 3, 2006]
    9 on mine.all from driving my works renault master 120dci.did also get a 30 day ban for 102 on the M20 two years ago could not give me any points or I would have lost my liecence for six months
    #68
  29. K7ERG
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    K7ERG Member

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    [Dec 3, 2006]
    None never had a point in 10 years. Touch wood and thats with no road angel.

    Craig
    #69
  30. Bascule
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    Bascule Member

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    [Dec 4, 2006]
    Clean licence now, but was 9 points back in 2000...

    my 2p worth - accidental, or even deliberate, speeding is one thing. But passing it off onto someone else is a different league altogether. Its like the difference between forgetting to renew your tax disc (minor civil matter, small penalty, fair enough) and putting the tax disc from your other car in instead, and modifying the registration written on it (clearcut Fraud - a criminal act.)

    Its academic what the circumstances of the speeding were. There is no-one here who's brain function is so poor that they cant grasp the concept that 'up to speed x is ok, more than that I stand to get a fine & points'. Regularly, every one of us accepts the risk of the fine, and speeds regardless - its just what happens.

    But when you get caught, it has to be fair enough - noone can claim they didnt know what the penalties would be. Yes it could cause hardship to have to deal with that penalty - but to lie about about it and pass it onto someone else, is in a different league, and I think its that action that is the action of a spineless individual, who wont face up to their responsibilities. I had to live with 9 points for 3 years - tiptoeing around, driving miss daisy, yep it was **** - but thats the whole point.

    I disagree with a lot of the locally set limits. I think we should have the french system, of 85mph on the motorway, or 70 if its raining, or an equivalent system. Many of our road regs are flawed - but we do understand them and the penalties in advance of the decision to speed - and if we dont then we shouldnt be driving anyway.
    #70
  31. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 4, 2006]
    You're missing the point Bascule.
    The example you give is clearcut fraud yes. Getting someone else to take points to save you losing your licence is purely exploiting a loophole in the law, which they created.
    The whole point being made here is the governement has instigated a system that is completely indiscriminate, gives no leeway and doesn't actually catch the biggest threats to the motorist on the road i.e. uninsured/pissed/unregistered drivers.
    In doing so they have changed the basis for UK law from innocent until proven guilty, to guilty by association to your vehicle. This is unacceptable in any other legal situation, so why are we accepting it. It has nothing to do with being caught so take it like a man, or being a spineless individual. It is exploiting the loophole they created when they changed the rules without anyones consensus.
    The upshot is we now have less traffic cops catching the real dangers on the road and we have an obsession with speeding (echoed on this very forum) that you can drive like a moron but as long as you don't speed you're a safe driver.
    Are you honestly expecting us to believe that if you got zapped while on 9 points and had a mum or dad willing to take the points for you, you would have turned it down and taken a 6 month ban? I don't think so.
    #71
  32. Bascule
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    Bascule Member

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    [Dec 4, 2006]
    No, its lying about it, a deliberate falsification of known facts in order to gain pecuniary advantage/avoid penalties. How is that different from any other type of fraud? If there is genuine doubt about who is driving a pool vehicle for example, fair enough.. other than that, no

    Thats just fudging, trying to divert attention away from a clear issue, by adressing other inadequacies. Thats like a four year old who knows hes heading for trouble, telling his mum about something worse that his big brother did. It may be true, but doesnt change the underlying issue!

    not quite true. If your vehicle is registered to you, and you are the keeper, it is entirely reasonable that you are approached to account for issues involving the car. If it wasnt you , fair enough, there is a process for you to inform them who it actually was. But if it was you, why is it unfair that you are associated with the vehicle?


    Its not a 'loophole' -it's a gap, in the interest of fairness , but a gap into which lies could be inserted to misdirect the justice.

    Certainly some truth there - despite the British driving test now being one of the most stringent in the world, there are some very, very bad drivers out there.. But then new drivers are no longer the highest risk group..

    Im afraid that I not only would, my folks would be absolutely mortified at any suggestion to the contrary. Its not that long since I was lucky (and I accept I was very very lucky), having been pulled for a speed where I could have been banned outright, and after a VERY strong side of the road telling off was allowed on my way. Had I been banned, I would have undoubtedly lost my job, and all that goes with that. Despite being let off, my reaction was not exhilaration at escaping the penalty, I admit I just felt sick - and it has had an effect - it was a stupid thing to do..

    I'm not being 'holier than thou' - my strength of feeling on this would not extend to grassing on someone who did this (and I have colleagues who are extremely proud of having done just that) whereas I wouldnt hesitate to call the police to a drink driver, friend, family or otherwise. Im just stating the reasons why I would not do it - and pointing out the areas where i believe the reasoning is flawed. We each have a different take on it, and its not worth falling out over, but it is entirely reasonable to have a debate over!!
    #72
  33. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 4, 2006]
    I think it is worth falling out over as it's pretty damn important. I think your view has been tainted by the fact you were let off when you should have been banned i.e. you benefitted from the fact that the police used their discretion, something that speed camera's do not offer.
    I find it incredibly hypocritical that you then condemn someone for doing exactly the same thing but in a different way afforded them by a limitation of the technology that caught them.
    You were caught speeding, excessively by the sound of it, so far more dangerous than the usual SP50, but were let off because you were able to interact with the technology that caught you i.e. the coppers.
    Speed camera's don't let you do this, yet you think using another method to avoid a ban is spineless? Flawed reasoning seems to be more your domain there.
    I'm with you on the effect of being let off though. It has a far more positive effect than being issued with a ticket, which is really the point. Speed camera's have devalued the danger & stigma of speeding. No one takes speed camera offences seriously, including insurance companies, it's just par for the course, more like a parking ticket than a criminal traffic offence.
    As for owning up unnecessarily to a NIP that will get you banned and lose you your job, as a matter of honour, well I wish we could all be in the position to be that righteous/selfish.
    Unfortunately some of us have families to support and mortgages to pay and I'm sorry but I value my job/family/house etc a little more highly than some self indulgent delusion about doing the right thing.
    #73
  34. Bascule
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    Bascule Member

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    [Dec 4, 2006]
    Whats hypocritical? I was pulled and had to face the consequences. The fact I didnt end up with a large penalty did have part to do with good policing, but like it or not, I would have had to face the penalty all the way, and would have had NO loophole at all to escape said penalty. By your reasoning, had I been caught by a camera, I could have saved myself the embarrasment of being told off by simply lying about who was driving!


    You are clearly aware of the law, and the penalties - If you actually value your job/family/house that highly, you wouldnt risk the penalty in the first place. Instead, clearly, you count on your ability to lie and cheat your way out of it.

    So tell me. Some young scrote in his saxo (or S3 for that matter) is regularly speeding near where you live, and counting on this loophole to get him off. Because of this, where is his incentive to obey the law? what will deter him from continual speeding, up until an awful accident occurs? Nothing at all, and his mates or family are equally guilty of knowing criminal fraud by aiding him in this.

    So at the point where he still has a licence, (as several mates and family have 'helped out' by taking a few points here and there) and kills someone, instead of being taken off the road by a justified ban before this, what are you going to do? say 'oh well, fair enough, he used a legitimate loophole' or would you have an alternative view?

    I am NOT suggesting you are in that category. I am questioning where the deterrent against speeding is? what will stop the occasional fast moment from becoming the norm for you? If you have no fear of the consequences due to your cavalier attitude to the truth then why bother sticking to the limits at all? why bother telling your insurer about your mods? why bother with any of it? I'll tell you why - its about respect for other people - If you respected your family, you wouldnt be asking them to lie for you. If you respected other road users, you would respect the clear rules we are all asked to stick to. Its not about whether we like them or not! Its not about whether we agree with them or think they are 'fair'! Do you get mad when some twat carves you up and drives off with his finger in the air? and If he got pulled for it for you feel there had been justice or would you be thinking 'ooh unlucky mate, you could have got away with that one'. whats the difference ANdyMac?

    For reference I DO have a large family to support, and like everyone I struggle to do so. to lose my job would be disatrous financially, in a very very short space of time. Its not about 'being in a position' to be righteous - it IS about not being utterly ashamed of myself. If Ive done wrong (which I have, we all have, no point pretending otherwise) I'm not proud of it, at all. But to lie about it after, like a child trying to avoid a telling off? Whats the point of that? You have to live with who you are.

    Would you take points for your kids if they got flashed? would you even consider what life example you are setting them by doing that?
    #74
  35. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 4, 2006]
    You seem to be under the impression that I am a pro-speeder. You obviously haven't understood a word I've said. I'm not going to argue all the points discussed as they aren't in anyway relevant to what I said.
    The saxo example just demonstrates this. How will me being banned unnecessarily stop mindless Saxo drivers from getting others to take points for them? Ridiculous logic! Saxo drivers know full well where all the speed cameras & laser traps are and you don't have to be speeding to kill someone.
    This post is not about the rights & wrongs of speeding it is about how you deal with the NIP after the crime. I wouldn't ask anyone to take points for me, I clearly stated that I would only do it if they offered and I was facing a ban. That's just common sense. Yes it's illegal, but then so is speeding Durrrrr!
    Using your rationale it would be spineless to hire a good lawyer for the court appearance when you plead your case.
    I'd be utterly ashamed of myself if I chose my own self righteous need to be punished over the needs of my wife & kids. Can't believe you'd rather make yours suffer rather than live with 10 minutes of guilt over using a loophole that wouldn't exist if the authorities did their job properly.
    #75
  36. Bascule
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    Bascule Member

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    [Dec 4, 2006]
    Again you are fudging and evading the salient points.

    Its not about a 'need' to be punished - its about choosing not to lie about it!
    The blatant cheating fraud that would cause you just 10 minutes of guilt is far worse than the original offense that it compounds. You were suggesting earlier that anyone would do the same - you are wrong, simply wrong about that, for all the reasons already discussed. Yes there are those that would, but they are not even anywhere near the majority, thank god. 'Banned unneccessarily' you say - no, you know the rules, 12 points and you're out. How can you claim that its unjustified just because you know how to lie your way out of it?
    Its exactly this kind of attitude that explains this country's sliding decline.. What a great world, when the 'common sense' approach (your words) is to lie and cheat your way out of a situation you dont like, despite causing it yourself.
    Lets hope the situation never arises, and the point will remain purely an academic discussion. Safe driving Andy..
    #76
  37. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 4, 2006]
    Maybe if it had happened to you, as it should have from your own admission, you would be a bit more honest about your reaction. I was banned for a year for totting up, so I know the impact, and I wouldn't recommend it. Unfortunately I did not have the luxury of being able to choose whether I went to court, or a family member took 3 points, but if I had I would have taken it in a heartbeat.
    The majority are unlikely to ever be put in the position, so its academic.
    All I'm saying is be honest about it. If, god forbid, someone is put in that position and they are facing a ban that would lose them their job/livelihood and possibly their house etc, not just personal hardship, but that of their family then of course they would take it.
    It's not about owning up, or doing the right thing, or setting an example for your kids. It's a petty misdemeanour which everybody admits to, it's doing 38mph on an empty dual carriageway instead of 36mph. It's meaningless.
    You said it yourself, "If Ive done wrong (which I have, we all have, no point pretending otherwise)" that's the crime right there. By your own admission you're not ashamed of the crime, only the manner in which you could save yourself & your family undue hardship as a result.
    Sorry I don't understand the double standard.
    "'12 points and you're out". This was a law brought in over 50 years ago when even getting 3points was a major event. Given the changes in the enforcement of speeding offences i.e. you could tot up 12 points in one trip and not even know about it, I think the 12 point limit is wildly unrealistic. It is totally dependent on how much you drive rather than how dangerous you are while doing so. So yes I know the law, it's totally outdated, it takes no account of how much mileage you do and more importantly no account of the number of accidents you've had.
    So spreading that number of "lives" out to family members who rarely drive, don't like driving and insist you drive them everywhere only seems fair to me.
    It's a stupid law and deserves to be "blatantly cheated" until they repeal it for something a little more effective and realistic.
    It is not a deterent as no one I know actively goes out driving with the full intent of doing some really good speeding. It's like a nectar card, if you do a lot of miles you will accumulate points.
    It bares no relation to how safe you are on the road otherwise insurance companies would be more interested. I currently have 9 points on my licence & my insurance actually went down last renewal. I think this is related to actual accidents I haven't had rather than the potential accidents I may be more likely to have if you believe the lies told about speeding & accidents.
    I think I'd rather trust the insurance companies & TRRL as they have the real data and it's less than 7% (where speed was a contributing factor).
    "Its exactly this kind of attitude that explains this country's sliding decline" Umm I think that statement says it all. It couldn't possibly be the way we are buggered on a daily basis by the authorities, by the tax man, by the injustices in the courts, by generations of unemployable lay abouts, by the demise of the manufacturing industry etc etc. No it's caused by someone trying to keep their job so they don't become a burden on society and can carry on paying tax to subsidise all of the above. Silly me.
    #77
  38. marmite
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    marmite Counting the Tesco Club points

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    [Dec 4, 2006]
    I got 3 points for doing 68mph in a 60 in June standard SP30 3 points £60 fine..Phone my insurance company no change??
    Renewed my insurance Oct with privelage No Change??

    So I phoned to confirm this...No Change they said..took my wife off the policy and it went up by £150!!

    My mum got her first points, got caught by a bus lane camera as the car at the front of the cue broke down and evryone pulled into the lane, unsure if it was a fixed camera or bus one.....but this did effect her insurance she is 60 and been driving 40 years with no points...never under stand insurance companies.

    RS6 £565 per year..Mini 1275..£96...VW 1.9tdi 130bhp Bora...£460..????
    No logic..wife insures Bora £295..insures RS £1200 both named drivers on each others car..?
    #78
  39. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [Dec 6, 2006]
    I unfortunately got up to 9 points a few years back, 36 in a 30, 47 in a 40 and 85 in 70, all 3 sets were gained in an 18 month period just unlucky I guess or stupid ?!? Been clean for a good few years now and spend far too much time scanning motorway bridges and slip roads etc when my eyes should be on the road. I totally agree with the 36 in a 30 as although early in the morning and nothing on the road I was entering a built up area, the other 2 IMO presented no danger due to dual carriageway and zero traffic, personally I'd like to see a greater police prescence and have them tackle 'tail gaters' and dangerous drivers, the motorway/lane discipline in the UK is dreadful, in the meantime I use a Road Angel and keep em peeled.
    #79
  40. smitch
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    smitch Active Member

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    [Dec 6, 2006]
    Is this one of the longest replies ever not including a quote????? :think:
    #80

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