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Some more goodies for the Ess.

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by jojo, Oct 23, 2013.

  1. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    Just got back from VW and the powder coaters.

    New front ARB and OEM bushes.
    [​IMG]

    Freshly powder coated front arms/subframe, clamps and bush holder thing.
    [​IMG]

    034 subframe bushes. :)
    [​IMG]

    And some poly bushes, which I didn't bother taking a pic of.

    I had no intentions of polybushing my front end, but I managed to get the whole shabang for a bargain, so was hard to say NO, it's basically a complete lower front suspension rebuild, which should outlast the car hopefully. I have new drop links aswell, and I need to get some new lower balljoints, then find a nice day in the next 12 months to fit it all! :laugh:
    #1
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  3. Sam_
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    Sam_ Down under

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    Steering rack mount? The solid one seems good.

    What ARB is that?
    #2
  4. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    Yes, need a new one of those too, going OEM, I don't see the benefit of a poly item there.

    ARB is a 21mm one. ;)
    #3
  5. Sam_
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    Sam_ Down under

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    Fair play. Steering feel is improved (mines solid mounted). VW obviously saw benefit, the MK5/6 are both solidly mounted racks without the bush.

    Blimey, what size rear? 22? 24? I can't seem to find anything bigger than 20mm rear here :(
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  6. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    19mm rear
    #5
  7. Sam_
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    Sam_ Down under

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    Not worried about under steer?
    #6
  8. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    Hope that 21mm bar is right. Looks alright. Was just a bit sceptical going for a bar no ones fitted. Especially someone else doing it. I dont mind doing it myself as it doesnt cause anyone hassle if its wrong and i can send it back easy lol.

    Just need a 23mm rear now.
    #7
  9. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    Why would a 19mm rear cause understeer? If anything, it makes it oversteer, like in my avatar. I'm trying to balance my car with this ARB setup based on my current suspension setup and geometry.
    #8
  10. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    I will find out soon enough, if it doesn't fit, then the 19mm is going back on Jase.
    #9
  11. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    It oversteers when you lift off or you have crappy Avons on it Jo haha.

    Only once has my kicked out on r32 rear bar and that was with Avons :p
    #10
  12. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    look forward to a review jo, i wouldnt mind some solid subframe mounts and bigger arbs F and R
    #11
  13. Sam_
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    Sam_ Down under

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    Not the 19mm rear. More the larger front than rear was what I was getting at.
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  14. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    I had Falken 452s on the rear in the clip Jase, and when they see water, they are shyte!

    I drove Rhubarbs fully polished example, and it did feel tighter than mine all round, without being harsh to be fair, but he did have standard suspension and ARBs

    I'm currently running 19/19, needs a bigger front to make it more neutral, back end has TOO much grip atm.
    #13
  15. A3-Lee
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    A3-Lee Active Member

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    Happy days mate I haven't forgot about you just had a load on be In touch soon
    #14
  16. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    No worries Lee, and no hurry neither, we both know what's priority mate. ;)
    #15
  17. kwistof
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    kwistof South East Events Moderator Regional Rep

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    I found the same problem tbh....only managed to 'fix' it by changing the front tyres to the rears to make it more interesting and predicatable through the corners (less tread now on the back).

    If this set up works for you I think I may follow in your footsteps come spring time as I'll be needing 4 new tyres and so I'll be getting grip overload again at the rear.
    #16
  18. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    Or could always step down on the rear arb to a 16mm?
    #17
  19. kwistof
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    kwistof South East Events Moderator Regional Rep

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    What's the standard rear ARB on the S3 again?

    Joe- have you changed the engine mounts if you're giving the whole front end a refresh? Or are they in decent nick?
    #18
  20. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    14mm was standard. 19mm was R32. Theres also a 13mm and 16mm. Guessing maybe the 16mm was from the 4mo 2.8 mk4.
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  21. [Dave B]
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    [Dave B] Rrrrrrrr-tech

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    Didn't they do 14mm and 15mm in standard and Gmbh form? I'm sure mine was 15mm when I removed it.

    Either way Jojo, your driving style must differ to mine as I'm thinking about going larger than 19mm at the back. This could be because I'm used to driving the Pug in summer which has a 24mm rear ARB though :eyebrows:
    #20
  22. RobinJI
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    RobinJI Member

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    Adding a larger front ARB will give the front less grip and the rear more. If you've got too much rear grip you need to downsize your front or increase the size of the rear ARB.

    Running a stiffer ARB resists roll by pushing the outside wheel into the tarmac harder, causing more weight transfer at that end of the car and therefore less grip on that axle. As the car's total weight transfer isn't effect by roll resistance, this in turn causes less weight transfer and therefore more grip at the other end of the car. It's why hugely front heavy FWD cars always run huge rear ARBs.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013
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  23. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    Original engine mounts, just a poly dogmount.
    #22
  24. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    It's hard for me to explain, but the balance of running 19/19 F/R is not balanced, the back end is snappy, especially in the wet! I need to the front end to be tighter to counter balance the back end, but like with everything else, mods on cars are subjective, not very mod is for everyone, so going 21mm front is a trial in itself, so let's see if it works, for MY suspension setup, and MY driving style.
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  25. A3-Lee
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    A3-Lee Active Member

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    But very low mileage remember lol
    #24
  26. RobinJI
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    RobinJI Member

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    That's cool. I wasn't trying to say anything was right or wrong, just making the actual dynamic effect of changing ARB's clear. :) I'm all for having a play and seeing what happens. It'll be interesting to see how you get on.

    Personally I've found that running a large rear ARB on my car has made the back end more predictable. It's more likely to step out than it did with the old smaller one, but when it does it's a much more predictable and progressive loss of traction, it doesn't snap in the same way it could before, and the overall grips been increased because the front's not washing out. (Running 19mm front 25mm rear, not that a Scirocco's comparable anyway!)

    Good wheel control's essential for predictable and controllable handling; if the back end's snappy it could worth looking at killing as much flex as you can back there. What bushes are you running out back?
    #25
  27. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    I don't find it snappy at all tbh. You must turn in sharp all the time? Get some quality tyres man! Lol. How's your alignment? Think I've got 1.4 on the front which is max on standard wishbones. Rear is 1.6 as the tie bars got stiff lol. Wouldn't mind some top mounts to dial in a bit more on the front.
    #26
  28. Gops
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    Gops 6th gear @7000rpm

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    What are my arbs jo? I can't remember what size they are!
    #27
  29. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 24, 2013]
    You don't have my suspension setup though, no one does, having uprated ARBs is one thing, but it has to work with the suspension/wheels/tyres! I will get my car to how I want it eventually, but it's a lot of trial and error, the 21mm front ARB is the next step, as I've tried the 22mm setup already!

    22/19 neuspeed arbs you have Gops! The specs on your car when I got it was basically the custom setup EssThree did on his car many years ago, and it works!
    #28
  30. vfr800
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    vfr800 Active Member

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    [Oct 24, 2013]
    Hi JoJo

    Where'd you get the coating done? How much did it cost?

    I need to get exactly the same done to my spare subframe and wishbones etc.

    Ta, Liam
    #29
  31. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 24, 2013]
    City powder coaters in Birmingham.
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  32. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Oct 24, 2013]
    Joe. Are you getting the adjustable arbs? They Will help you fine tune your setup. I'd expect the difference in a 19" rim compared to a 17" rim would make quite a big difference to the handling.
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  33. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 24, 2013]
    No mate, 21/19 is the setup I'm going for, there's a reason for it, but I will explain later. I'm currently running 18s, which is the best size for handling from my experience. My 19s use to be good, but it doesn't work with my current suspension setup, which is why I've put them up for sale.
    #32
  34. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Oct 25, 2013]
    Smaller the wheel the bigger the tyre profile which will be a lot more forgivng as it flexes in corners. The bigger your wheels the thiner your tyre profile gets and less tyre wall movement.
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  35. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 25, 2013]
    It's a weight thing too, BBS 18s are much lighter than the 19s I have, and with the corrected camber I have on the back, the 19s now catch slightly under load!
    #34
  36. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Oct 25, 2013]
    Oh of course, but adding weight anywhere will effect cornering ;)
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