1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

So the BMW diesels are soooooooooooo superior to Audi's?

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by coupe-se, May 22, 2008.

  1. Relaxitscool
    Offline

    Relaxitscool Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 23, 2008]
    Having driven BMW diesels, the 6 cylinder 3.0L, regular 2L, the 1.9 VAG in 105bhp and 130bhp form as well as the Fiat / Alfa Diesels I have to say that the Fiat / Alfa are by far the best. They sound very good, esp the 5 cylinder 2.4JTDm. Unfortunately they aren't the best when it comes to MPG.

    VAG diesels, whilst fairly decent sound almost agriculture by comparison. BMW are good, esp the 3.0L. I've not driven the 335D but I can imagine it being a bit of a monster!

    What amazes me with BMW claims for MPG and CO2 is how they incorporate stop start technology into the figures. Surely a BMW on a non stop 200 mile motorway cruise will not be making any use of stop start, so how can they use the feature to reduce CO2 and MPG?

    Regards

    Rob
    #41
  2. SteveTDCi
    Offline

    SteveTDCi Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,388
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 23, 2008]
    If I was to buy a car that the motoring press reccomends I wouldn't own an A3, however I like it, yes the 120d has a much better engine and makes the vag 2.0 so like a tractor but its not enought to get me to buy one.
    #42
  3. newbiecrg
    Offline

    newbiecrg windsurfer

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,328
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 23, 2008]
    They also less bph than engine produces... but this applies for VAG as well. In germany car yax takes that into account... Or at least it did...

    Pedro
    #43
  4. kanievsky
    Offline

    kanievsky Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 23, 2008]
    Do you know that the 1.9 CDTI engine used in Vauxhall`s is FIAT`s engine? It is indeed a very good diesel engine. My mate has Astra 888 1.9 CDTI 150/200 BHP and I`m impressed with this engine`s fuel consumption and acceleration.:thumbsup:
    #44
  5. RedSportback
    Offline

    RedSportback Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 24, 2008]
    I drive the new A4 with the 143bhp, and while I have only had it a week it does seem more refined in it's delivery in power than the 140bhp i had in the A3.

    But girls and boys, it's horses for courses and no one car manufacturer is going to have the best engine, ride, style, performance, economy, residual, interior and furry dice to suit everyone. If they did God life would be boring
    #45
  6. PNH80
    Offline

    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,633
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 24, 2008]
    Probably best to read my post again (properly) before telling me 'perceived quality is getting to me' ... It was a tongue in cheek reference to an Astra SRI against my 2.0TFSI quattro (both petrol obviously, so nothing to do with diesel) and the sound they make at idle. A reference to an earlier comment.
    #46
  7. marriedblonde
    Offline

    marriedblonde Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2004
    Messages:
    4,371
    Likes Received:
    3
    [May 24, 2008]
    Lol
    #47
  8. mcc49
    Offline

    mcc49 Stalled

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2008
    Messages:
    249
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 24, 2008]
    A large percentage of CO2 emission and fuel usage is from start stop city driving so when you are on a 200 mile motorway cruise the engine isnt working as hard as throttle movement is kept to a minimum. This means its the extra urban fuel consumption figures coming into play as it require less fuel to maintain speed than to increase speed and with less fuel burnt result in less CO2 produced.

    So the start/stop technology would probably only be in the urban fuel consumption figures as thats when it's being used, the increase in extra urban (ala motorway cruising) figure would come other part of the efficient dyanamics system such as the aerodynamics improvements and light weight engine construction.
    #48
  9. golf
    Offline

    golf ***** rent boy VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,556
    Likes Received:
    2
    [May 24, 2008]
    BMW are way ahead of Audi in terms of engines and driving dynamics. The sooner people realise that on this forum, the better. Just imagine, no petty squabbling and bowfer vs everyone else threads ad infinitum will be a thing of the past.
    #49
  10. marriedblonde
    Offline

    marriedblonde Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2004
    Messages:
    4,371
    Likes Received:
    3
    [May 24, 2008]
    but it will take the fun out of this place ;) i for one enjoy the differing opinions, some statements made on here tho' are hilarious..
    #50
  11. bacardi
    Offline

    bacardi Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2005
    Messages:
    1,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 24, 2008]
    :iagree:

    The "is an A3 a gay car" thread was superb
    #51
  12. rodenal
    Offline

    rodenal Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,992
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 26, 2008]
    A bit touchy are we not?

    I probably didn't read it correctly and can't really be bothered to look for it again but it was a fair assumption considering this is a thread about diesels no?
    #52
  13. Amchlolor
    Offline

    Amchlolor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2005
    Messages:
    5,604
    Likes Received:
    3
    [May 26, 2008]
    It's actually a GM (General Motors) unit, used by Fiat, Vauxhall, Saab and Alfa Romeo.
    #53
  14. a3norwich
    Offline

    a3norwich Not anymore - Back 2 BMW (shh)

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    359
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 26, 2008]
    A bit off the diesel topic, but, I have to say, coming from the dark side (BMW for 9 years) and now Audi for a couple, Audi engines are simply not in the class of BMWs. Audi it seems are always chasing BMW. Don't get me wrong, Audi engines, in general, are not bad; BMW's are simply better.

    I was interested to read some comparisons too on fuel consumption, CO2 and power output for BMW's 3.0L straight 6 versus the S3's 4 pot: 39.2 vs 31/173 vs 217/272 vs 261, as I am thinking of going back to a BMW coupe (and their 335i is virtually identical to the S3 for figures, oh except for power output, smoothness and sound of course...). I for one, would not have another Audi with all the problems I have had. Personal opinion, based on hard facts and experience.

    Back to diesels, the 335d is extremely impressive and quite effortless, just not cheap...
    #54
  15. PNH80
    Offline

    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,633
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 26, 2008]
    No not at all i just find it annoying when some one can't be bothered to read something properly then tell me what i meant. It's a bit ignorant if anything...No?
    #55
  16. kanievsky
    Offline

    kanievsky Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 26, 2008]
    No mate it is Fiat unit or actually FIAT GM venture.:icon_thumright:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JTD_engine
    Still a great diesel unit!!:sm4:
    #56
  17. rodenal
    Offline

    rodenal Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,992
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 26, 2008]
    Just re read and you havent mentioned the astra is a petrol so what are you goin on about? I gave you the benefit of the doubt in that i probably skim read the post and then thought it was interesting enough to reply about but apparently you're just a bit sensitive for some reason

    Anyway the comment about the Astra was a generalisation of the whole car in general, it was your post, or how i interpreted it that made me write about the car but it was never meant as any sort of dig so this is a bit pointless really
    #57
  18. golf
    Offline

    golf ***** rent boy VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,556
    Likes Received:
    2
    [May 26, 2008]
    I love these threads. :anbet:
    #58
  19. TDI-line
    Offline

    TDI-line Uber Post Whore

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    9,057
    Likes Received:
    38
    [May 26, 2008]
    Me too.:footy:


    Oh, did i mention i test drove a 335D last week.:undwech:
    #59
  20. GlasgowRangers
    Offline

    GlasgowRangers GlasgowRangersFC

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2008
    Messages:
    498
    Likes Received:
    1
    [May 26, 2008]
    Do tell all. What did you think of the performance? Was it the coupe?
    #60
  21. Relaxitscool
    Offline

    Relaxitscool Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 26, 2008]
    Beg to differ there Bowfer. Its a Fiat Group engine sold to GM who then pass it on to their brands.

    Regards

    Rob
    #61
  22. mister.c.
    Offline

    mister.c. Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2007
    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    1
    [May 26, 2008]
    Come on bowfer - take off your blinkers, delve a little into the same magazine that you quote above and you also grab something to suit your argument, shock horror!
    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/grouptests/217320/audi_a4_vs_rivals.html

    I wonder which car, with the rubbish engine wins...
    #62
  23. marriedblonde
    Offline

    marriedblonde Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2004
    Messages:
    4,371
    Likes Received:
    3
    [May 27, 2008]
    Me three. So who does have the biggest penis? Because lets face it that what these threads are all about...
    #63
  24. TDI-line
    Offline

    TDI-line Uber Post Whore

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    9,057
    Likes Received:
    38
    [May 27, 2008]

    Ok, it was the 335d touring M-sport , so it is a bit rarer to find one than the coupes and saloons, but i would need the pratical space more.

    The salesman drove her first, i was amazed at how well it gripped the road, and was very impressed by the performance overall. (286 bhp, 0-60 in 6.3 seconds!)

    The interior was very well fitted out, the leather seats held you in very well, with so many adjustments too. Excellent driving position, and loved the chunky steering wheel with chrome flappy paddels.

    Overall i'm sold on the whole idea, and i could keep this car for many years to come, pretty good MPG for amazing performance (combined 40 MPG) and a tax group of E, my sportback is D, and i'm getting double the power lol.
    #64
  25. Amchlolor
    Offline

    Amchlolor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2005
    Messages:
    5,604
    Likes Received:
    3
    [May 27, 2008]
    You're not quoting the same magazine.
    I was quoting Autocar, you're quoting Autoexpress.
    I'll give you a bit of credit for actually finding a group test that places the new A4 above the 3-series though.

    With specific regard to the engine, you will note the following;

    1/ They note the Audi "lacks thrust" compared with the BMW and Merc
    2/ They note the Audi engine is quieter than the Merc, but not the BMW.
    3/ They say the A4 only averaged 38.8mpg during the test, which is comparable to the bigger and more powerful Merc, but a good bit shy of the more powerful BMW. 38.8mpg from a 141bhp engine is poor.

    Basically, if you read it, it won the test by being cheaper.
    It's cheaper because it's less powerful.
    The correct version to test against the 177bhp 3-series would have been the 170bhp A4.
    But it's not available yet.
    Given that it will be more expensive than the 141bhp version, it's fair to say that the A4's only advantage in this test, (price) will be negated.

    Next?:icon_thumright:

    Oh, this is an interesting little ditty from the test too.

    Audi ranked 16th out of 32 in our Driver Power 2007 dealer survey – two ahead of Mercedes, but five behind BMW.
    #65
  26. PNH80
    Offline

    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,633
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 27, 2008]
    Add me to the long list of people wanting to own a 335d coupe please.
    #66
  27. Amchlolor
    Offline

    Amchlolor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2005
    Messages:
    5,604
    Likes Received:
    3
    [May 27, 2008]
    I'd love a 335D too, but it would have to be a saloon.
    Actually, make that a tourer.
    #67
  28. PNH80
    Offline

    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,633
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 27, 2008]
    Some people find the new shape coupe to be an aquired taste but i love it, and the engine is something a bit special. Only downside is the interior....I'm still not a fan.
    #68
  29. Amchlolor
    Offline

    Amchlolor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2005
    Messages:
    5,604
    Likes Received:
    3
    [May 27, 2008]
    I also think the 3 series coupe is lovely.
    Can't say I really notice the interior of my car.
    Too busy enjoying the way it drives.
    #69
  30. SteveTDCi
    Offline

    SteveTDCi Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,388
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 27, 2008]
    3 series .... Like the outside, hate the dash
    #70
  31. james0808
    Offline

    james0808 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,548
    Likes Received:
    3
    [May 27, 2008]
    Me four.

    [​IMG]
    #71
  32. Amchlolor
    Offline

    Amchlolor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2005
    Messages:
    5,604
    Likes Received:
    3
    [May 27, 2008]
    Some strange priorities here.
    Dashboard design over driving enjoyment....hmmm....
    #72
  33. PNH80
    Offline

    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,633
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 27, 2008]
    Now come on, I think it's just an accepted fact that BMW interiors, design wise are maybe a little behind those of Audi. It's no disrespect to the car though hence i'd choose a 335d coupe over a 3.0TDI A5.
    Driving pleasure will ALWAYS win the day, a great interior just makes the whole experience more enjoyable.... especially when you're sat in traffic.
    #73
  34. consilio
    Offline

    consilio Up the owls!

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Messages:
    666
    Likes Received:
    3
    [May 27, 2008]
    Not really. Think of the 3 series as the Anne Widdecombe of cars.....

    She could be a great shag but...... well you get my point
    #74
  35. mfspen
    Offline

    mfspen Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    573
    Likes Received:
    8
    [May 27, 2008]
    That's a bit unfair.
    Anne Widdecombe is not that ugly, surely ?
    #75
  36. Amchlolor
    Offline

    Amchlolor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2005
    Messages:
    5,604
    Likes Received:
    3
    [May 27, 2008]
    I acknowledge the fact that the interior is a bit dull.
    But, then again, I didn't think my A3's interior was particularly exciting either.
    I really can't see what there is to "hate" about it.
    It has some nice touches, like the two little red LED's that shine down from the roof onto the centre console at night.
    Audi would call it 'ambient lighting', I suppose.
    And charge you extra for it...:whistle2:
    #76
  37. consilio
    Offline

    consilio Up the owls!

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Messages:
    666
    Likes Received:
    3
    [May 27, 2008]
    What's the alternative? Charge ALL customers for 2 lights shining onto the centre console, and not make it an optional extra?

    Standard or not, you still pay either way, you understand that right?

    :blahblah1:
    #77
  38. PNH80
    Offline

    PNH80 Low life livin' the high life.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,633
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 27, 2008]
    I don't hate anything about it, i just don't particularly like it either. It's just 'ok-ish'...and it shouldn't be because the exterior looks great.

    Anyway i'm not saying BMW interiors are worse quality or badly made, far from it...Just wish they were nicer to look at.
    On the flip side i find mercedes interiors over-done. Too many textures, ruffled leather, chrome strips, black walnut etc etc. I'd take a BMW interior over that any day.
    #78
  39. Amchlolor
    Offline

    Amchlolor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2005
    Messages:
    5,604
    Likes Received:
    3
    [May 27, 2008]
    If Audi charged less for not having them, you'd have a point.
    As it is, Audi charge the same money as others, for less stuff.
    Then they disguise the omissions as 'choice', and people fall for it.
    #79
  40. PaulAr
    Offline

    PaulAr S3 (8P)

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,070
    Likes Received:
    180
    [May 27, 2008]
    Since coming on here, Ive seen pretty much every thread end up as the same BMW v AUDI pissing contest.
    The same arguments follow the same predictable theme from the same people.:banghead:
    Come on boys, lets mix it up a bit and put the handbags away. You will never convince an AUDI fan on an AUDI forum that his car in inferior to BMW or other (whether it is or not), regardless of how many magazine reviews you quote (very Alan Partridge BTW !!).
    :blahblah1:

    cheers
    Paul
    #80

Share This Page