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So tell me about ECU mapping.

Discussion in 'New A3/S3 (8V Chassis)' started by Schizophonic, Dec 28, 2013.

  1. Schizophonic
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    Schizophonic Active Member

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    [Dec 28, 2013]
    Revo currently doing discount on their mapping. I'm looking to remap my 1.4TFSI.

    I have a couple of questions which some experience members might be able to advise.


    1. With Revo ECU remapping, will the dealers notice this when it comes in for a service?
    2. Can this be reflashed to stock if needed?
    3. What other big tuning companies would you recommend?

    At the moment I'm just trying to find out the pros and cons of each. I need to make a decision as the Revo discount is finishing at the end of the 2nd week.
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  3. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 28, 2013]
    The first thing is to check with Revo that they can actually remap your particular car. The current ECUs used by Audi have a lot of anti-tamper systems built in and they can not longer be remapped using the OBD diagnostics port as they could in the past. It means the only way it can be done is for the whole ECU to be removed and bench remapped and then refitted. Even if they use the same shear-bolts etc for refixing it I'm quite sure any dealer would be able to tell it had been removed. Having said that most dealers would not be bothered unless there was a problem under warranty that was directly related to the increase in power from the remap.

    As far as other companies are concerned, do a search on the internet but check that your particular car and engine is on the list of cars that they car remap. A lot of companies can still only remap through the OBD port which will not work on your engine. There are two German companies, MTM and ATP, that have the German TuV approval for modifying Audi engines but both of these remove the ECU and replace with one of their own. These cost in the region of £1700 and would be obvious to any dealer.
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  4. cuke2u
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    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 28, 2013]
    I'm going to wait until a hand held device becomes available to add and remove the remap, after the anti-tamper has been defeated of course. Plus I will get a map that includes insurance against any mechanical defect that could be attributed the remap. In looking at Revo's figures for the 1.4 138ps map they do seem very conservative.
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  5. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 28, 2013]
    Why would you want to remove the map.
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  6. GNJ_Motorsport
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    GNJ_Motorsport Site Sponsor Site Sponsor

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    [Dec 28, 2013]
    I think the new petrol tuning boxes are a good way to go. We will be testing one on our S3 when it arrives. They are available for most of the new turbocharged petrol engines. If anyone wants any info on them drop me a PM.

    Taking the ECU out for a 'proper' remap is suicide if you want to keep your warranty. They can't be opened without leaving marks on the casing, easily noticeable to the dealer.
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  7. the_lecht_rocks
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    the_lecht_rocks Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 28, 2013]
    i'm flabbergasted that these remaps are taking place without some form of diffreential upgrade to harness the S3's base power which the chassis struggles with anyway.....

    Graeme - Are you going Wavetrac ?
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  8. cuke2u
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    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 28, 2013]
    When I sell the vehicle for a start...
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  9. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 28, 2013]
    When I sold my last A3 that had been remapped from 140 to 170 I sold it as it was and told the purchaser that it had been remapped. Removing the map from the latest type of ECU is going to be a difficult as doing it in the first place. When the remap is done at the moment it does not remove any the anti-tamper system unless a completely new ECU is used in the way that MTM and ATP do with their units. It looks like add-on tuning boxes are going to be the only way to go and of course they will be easy to remove.
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  10. Dan_G
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    Dan_G Active Member

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    [Dec 28, 2013]
    Audi are wise to the hand held maps too and have a 'counter' to record the number of times the ECU has been flashed.

    Only Audi can carry out an authorised flash upgrade and if that occurs it is recorded in their system online.

    Any vehicle coming in with multiple flash records which do not tally with Audi's own system is then recorded with the code 'TD1' and if warranty claims come up for say, engine or drivetrain failure Audi dispute / refuse them. Seems to have come out of the US, but, apparently, vehicles are being checked in Europe now.

    Google Audi TD1 code.

    Remapping is not for me, unless it's through a mapping company that offer a warranty themselves.
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  11. GNJ_Motorsport
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    GNJ_Motorsport Site Sponsor Site Sponsor

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    [Dec 28, 2013]
    I'll see what it is like when ours arrives. It will get one eventually though.

    I'm reading mixed reviews on it, some say they understeer awfully and others say they find them fine. Guess it is down to the individual and how hard they push in the corners. I know a few times I had my S3 8P under steering in standard form. I found a good set of springs to reduce body roll sorted a lot of it out though. Some H&R's going on ours within days of its arrival so we will see on that score :)
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  12. SilureMark
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    SilureMark Active Member

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    [Dec 28, 2013]
    1) Yes - they only need to drive it.
    2) Yes
    3) AMD

    My experience of remaps is a bit mixed. I have had AMD remaps on two Audi's I have owned and zero complaints there. I had MoreGo (GTi Engineering) remap a mkV Golf GTi and that was a disaster - constant problems will the car going into 'safety mode' and had to go back three times - then the customer service or lack of it. One thing I would mention, again from personal experience, think very carefully about the pros and cons. You'll invalidate your warranty for anything they can find that breaks or goes wrong connected adding more power - trust me - that can happen and it happened to m with a remapped TTC 225 which I had remapped from new. I was running 268bhp and the clutch packed in on me after only 6 months of ownership. The dealer wanted to charge me a lot of money to fix things - thankfully I took it to another Audi dealer who did not bat an eyelid about the milltek and remap - they just did all on warranty. You can of course not tell them it is remapped, but like I said, they only need drive it and they'll know.

    I must admit, I am considering a stage one remap for my new S3, but I will reserve judgement on that as the two I drove seemed plenty quick enough. However, one thing I will be doing it a gear box remap. Had that on my TTRS and it was a revelation. Gave me so much more control over the car and took away all the annoying things about the s tronic. A no brainer in my book that one and my ne S3 will be off to AMD for that within days of taking delivery!
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  13. Johnnyb
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    Johnnyb Member

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    [Dec 28, 2013]
    ABT offer a seperate bolt on ECU which will mean it's undectable to the dealer's computer, it does however sit in the engine bay so will be visible there, how much so i have no idea..

    ABT also offer warranty on their remap and have claimed 70bhp from stage 1, so i'm thinking this way of mapping might be the best way on this new 8V platform?

    Will see what the other companies come up with soon!
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  14. SilureMark
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    SilureMark Active Member

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    [Dec 28, 2013]
    MTM would be another tuning company worth looking at. My brother in law had his beastie tuned by QST - that's his latest RS6. Supercar baiter that car. Not cheap when compared to other remaps though. He speaks very highly of that company. AMD would be my recommendation and a couple of my work colleagues have had their A5's remapped, plus their company car serviced by AMD. All good from what I have heard.
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  15. cuke2u
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    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 28, 2013]
    As you keep saying, but so was the ECU fitted to my present car. Yes it maybe that tuning boxes are the way to go but I have a handheld device for reprogramming ecu's and, as I said, I will wait and see if it becomes possible to remap the car myself.
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  16. cuke2u
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    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 28, 2013]
    Again it maybe that a ecu can be reprogrammed so that it doesn't record any 'TD1'. After all any firmware can be rewritten...
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  17. Dan_G
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    Dan_G Active Member

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    [Dec 28, 2013]
    True enough, but you're then getting into the realms of fraud and the accompanying illegality - and I wouldn't want to do that.

    Several tuners offer their own warranty however and have worked with VAG to get as safe as possible.
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  18. Kingfisher
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    Kingfisher Member

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    [Dec 28, 2013]
    The better companies have been doing this for a number of years.
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  19. desertstorm
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    desertstorm Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 28, 2013]
    Very interesting thread regarding TD1 flags and warranty claims.

    TD1 Warranty flagging system | VAGOC.co.uk

    Never going to bother me as the newest car I have ever owned was 3 years old so out of warranty anyway.
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  20. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 28, 2013]
    But how old is your current car. The latest versions of the ECU and EDC with the latest anti-tamper systems have only been used on the Golf VII and A3 8P. Before that I think it was still possible to remap through the OBD port. It certainly was when I had my last remap done in October 2009.
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  21. cuke2u
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    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 28, 2013]
    My present car was built august 2011. Yes you might be correct that the coding can't be broken on the Audi's ecu at present, however with the TFSI 1.4 Evo are offering the remap for 399. I think it is pounds. Thus something must have been done to enable the mapping to be changed. We shall see what we shall see but I'm not going to write off the possibility just yet...
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  22. Kingfisher
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    [Dec 28, 2013]
    It's possible that the coding can't be broken ( at present) but I've heard about these unbreakable codes for a number of years -- and somebody always does --eventually -- it's a challenge !
    That's probably why MTM now have a piggyback system, and I'd be perfectly happy to use that ( it's plug in and play so easy to remove if the car needs to go to the dealer).
    I've been perfectly happy with the july 1999 A4 1.8QTS, chipped when it was less than a year old and done 80k+ fault free miles since
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  23. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 28, 2013]
    It's quite likely that someone will find a way to bypass the current anti-tamper systems eventually but when the do Bosch, who make the units, will then come up with even better system and everyone will have to start again. Perhaps this has now got to the point where external units will be the better answer.

    When I had my 2009 A3-2.0TDI-140 remapped to 170 I had the car for nearly 40k miles and had no problems at all. I see the chap who bought from the local garage who bought it from me and as far as I know he has had no problems. He actually runs a local tyre depot that I sometimes use.
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  24. Schizophonic
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    Schizophonic Active Member

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    [Dec 28, 2013]
    Well the TD1 code sucks, wasn't expecting that.

    I'm going to contact some of the main tuners and ask what their procedure is and once I get more info I'll go into Audi UK to see how much they know about the situation. Thanks for the insight on this matter. Looks like it wont be a straight forward remapping.
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  25. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 29, 2013]
    Make sure you tell them that you car is a new one and will have the latest ECU as it may well make a difference to what, if anything, the are able to offer.

    If my experience is anything to go by Audi UK will not be any help. I wrote to them about other matters on 4 November and followed up with an email on 10 December and they have not even bothered to reply to either.
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