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So.... Should I ??? or shouldn't i ????

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by tuffy, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Dec 13, 2012]
    Right guys....
    Been reading all the tales of the dreaded oil pump problems, really put off even viewing the 2006 170 tdi i've got my eye on
    I know its only opinions but should i walk? and just keep walking away from this potential money pit????
    Really don't know what to do :think:
    #1
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  3. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 13, 2012]
    First thing I'd do is try to find out of the car you're looking at has already had the oil pump assembly replaced/repaired/uprated/modified or whatever.
    #2
  4. sidibear
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    sidibear Looking for Zombies !! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 13, 2012]
    Get the vin number and ask a dealer to check it.
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  5. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Dec 13, 2012]
    Thanks. that was my plan to do as much research as possible. And lets say its running the original pump assembly??
    Run for the hills?
    #4
  6. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 13, 2012]
    Not necessarily. How good are your negotiating skills?
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  7. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Dec 13, 2012]
    Pretty good... But you know what its like when you do heaps of research on a car you are looking at buying...... Turn up at the sellers house armed with all the reasons they should knock £1k off the asking price, they turn all defensive, claim not to of ever heard of the problem and there is nothing wrong with their pride and joy, then hope you bugger off and pray someone comes along who doesn't know that its a ticking time bomb
    #6
  8. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Dec 13, 2012]
    BTW The car im looking at is 06 170 A4 avant, 70,500 full leather, Audi sh (for what its worth) asking price £8,350
    #7
  9. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 13, 2012]
    Tricky when it's a private sale. Do the background check like we suggested, and if it hasn't been fixed and the seller won't play ball, walk away and find another one.
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  10. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Dec 13, 2012]
    Thanks for the advice. Just out of interest..... how much does the parts cost to do the upgrade? and am i looking for the pump to of been upgraded from the chain to gear system?
    #9
  11. jjmurphy21187
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    jjmurphy21187 Tiptronic

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    [Dec 13, 2012]
    Is it me or does that not sound especially cheap? Even if the problems have been sorted...?
    #10
  12. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Dec 14, 2012]
    I thought it was a pretty keen price, not a cheap car if i have to spend £££££££ on putting it right though!! He has dropped it from just over £9k, selling due to growing family.

    I suppose cars may be a little cheaper bang on top of xmas
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  13. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Dec 16, 2012]
    Right....I've decided to view the mentioned car this morning and write down the relevant codes etc, will ring my local Audi dealer in the morning to see if they have any oil pump/balance shaft info on the car

    Could someone just clarify for me that the BLB engine is the real troublesome bugger with oil pump and hex failure???

    And the BRE oil pump is gear driven so more reliable,,,, but the hex rounding off is still an issue??

    Thanks guys
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  14. matthew999
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    matthew999 Member

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    [Dec 16, 2012]
    blb is chain driven oil pump, tensioner has known to snap, becomes very noisey/rattly when happens, bre is gear driven. Both a have the same hex key that is known to wear and fail.

    Read this here
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  15. matthew999
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    matthew999 Member

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    [Dec 16, 2012]
    #14
  16. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 16, 2012]
    Be smart with your questions of the seller. Don't ask him any question to which he can answer "yes" or "no". So don't ask him if the car's had any problems with the oil pump. Ask him outright when the oil pump failed, how bad the damage was and if he has documentation to prove it has been repaired. That way, your opening gambit is that you are assuming it's had a problem, and he's then forced either to deny or agree.
    #15
  17. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Dec 16, 2012]
    Ok guys
    Thanks for all your pointers. Been to look at the car, everything is spot on with it at face value, really lovely car.
    Asked the guy out right about the oil pump/balance shaft issue and he knew nothing of the fault, he is the second owner

    He has had the recall done for injectors (with paperwork to back this up) but nothing on the oil pump problem.
    I will ring Audi in the morning to see if any work relevant to the oil problem has been carried out,, but i really doubt it

    If someone would be kind enough to shed some light on the engine code please? from what little i know, i think its the gear driven pump but with the same **** hex???

    BRD 003182 First reg 28/7/06 VERSION VM6XH0R8E707GG

    Thanks a lot guys
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
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  18. matthew999
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    matthew999 Member

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    [Dec 16, 2012]
    Correct, you will have gear and crappy hex. Same engine code as mine.
    #17
  19. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Dec 16, 2012]
    Ok, so would you buy it and replace the hex?? Or run away screaming??
    Is it a reasonable job for a qualified person to do?

    Is it just a case of removing the sump and replacing the hex? Or far more to it than that??
    I'm really undecided what to do aaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!
    #18
  20. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Dec 16, 2012]
    Any ideas guys please??
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  21. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Dec 16, 2012]
    OK I am biased, I was bitten by my own B7 and if the seller can't give you receipted proof the oil pump/balance shaft assemby has been fixed I would walk.
    Sure there are cars out there without this issue and there are a LOT of cars our there WITH this problem.

    You pays your money and you takes your pick......................
    #20
  22. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Dec 16, 2012]
    Thanks for that paul
    The more i read the more i think this is a bad idea. Do you know if its as easy as removing the sump and inspecting the hex for damage ?
    Something tells me is far more labour intensive than that?
    #21
  23. matthew999
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    matthew999 Member

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    [Dec 16, 2012]
    get a 3ltr tdi :) and sell it when the B8s come down in price a bit

    cheers

    matt
    #22
  24. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 17, 2012]
    I am biased too, but can wholly endorse the idea of buying a 3.0TDi. Best car I've ever owned - as simple as that. That said, this engine too has a foible, that being the tendency of the inlet manifold swirl flaps to wear out and illuminate the engine management light. Audi routinely replace the entire inlet manifold assembly (typical cost £700 per side inc. labour) but it's not necessary to do that. The flap mechanism can be repaired and modified for about £225 (contact Fontain Audi for details), and even if that doesn't stop the light coming on, at least one company is now offering a service to map out the fault code (see FR&R Tuning).
    #23
  25. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Dec 17, 2012]
    Right.....phone Audi dealers this morning and they just confirmed what I already suspected, it is still running the original pump/hex
    i I will speak to my friend who has his own garage to get his take on it but in the words of dragons den.......think I'm out!!!!
    #24
  26. Audi_Doodey
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    Audi_Doodey New Member

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    [Dec 17, 2012]
    my humble opinion: the best way to avoid any problems at all, pay lots of money for a warranty. Had my A4 Avant B7 for two years (07 plate) not a problem. Why? I paid big wonga for a warranty (£350 per year with Warranty direct). Guaranteed result!
    #25
  27. sidibear
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    sidibear Looking for Zombies !! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 17, 2012]
    Sidi runs off to check his small print....
    #26
  28. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Dec 17, 2012]

    if you want a guarantee you should buy a toaster ....................................
    #27
  29. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Dec 18, 2012]
    I've decided to leave it alone, let someone else have the worry and wait till I can find a 07 B8 within my budget.

    Thanks to everyone for all the advice! the search continues!
    #28
  30. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 18, 2012]
    Or a B7 3.0TDi Quattro perhaps?
    #29
  31. rowdyboy
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    rowdyboy Member

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    [Dec 18, 2012]
    Don't be put off by that, there's plenty who haven't had this problem. There only appears to be 2 - 3 members on the B7 section that have had this. Hardly an epidemic, like the oil pump problem.
    #30
  32. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 18, 2012]
    I take your point about there being relatively few B7 owners affected by this, but the sample size of B7 owners with 3.0TDi engines is way smaller than the number with 2.0TDi engines. Once you start browsing the forums for other models using the 3.0TDi engine (A6, A8, Q7 etc.) you soon realise there's a lot of affected engines out there. Equally, just as with the 2.0TDi, there also plenty that are not.

    My post was intended to flag up the issue, and to let people know they don't have to go down the route of replacing the entire manifold. The other point, of course, is that this issue is unlikely to cause a sudden total breakdown of the car, sometimes in very dangerous situations, as can happen with the oil pump failure.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
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  33. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Dec 18, 2012]
    Before i sign off...... Is it not an option to have the offending parts checked before they blow to pieces?
    What is involved in checking/ replacing the hex if worn? Does the front of the car need to be removed??
    #32
  34. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Dec 18, 2012]

    I had unit on my chain driven BLB coded engine replaced by Teesside Audi but from what I have read ( i.e. I have not done this myself) on the gear driven unit ( which is what your question relates to) one would need to drop the sump and taken the front of the car off . This would then give access to the the oil pump /balance shaft module which one would have to un bolt and remove before the hex drive could be inspected.
    I believe this is a circa 5 hour job to take it off and put it back but if there's anyone reading this who thinks this is wrong please correct me?

    For the record, the time charged by the main dealer to convert the chain driven unit to a geared unit is circa 9hrs from my own invoice) as there's considerably more work involved. Now with the cost of the parts you can imagine how easily the costs for the work rack up.

    Paul B7
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  35. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Dec 19, 2012]

    Thanks for that Paul, very helpful. Phoned my Audi dealer on Monday as I mentioned in a previous post, asked the question "is my cars oil pump chain driven or gear???? Give me a minute sir and I will call you back......I just recieve a call, two days later, yes sir, your car has the gear driven pump!

    Only the hex shaft problem to chew over now!
    #34
  36. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Dec 19, 2012]
    So how many of you guys would buy a 2.0tdi with the gear driven oil pump but still with the possibility of the hex failing????

    I'd be interested to know what percentage of these engines fitted have had the oil pump/ hex shaft fail ????? As there must of been thousands of these units used across the world. Suppose its something we will never know as a some of the repairs will be undertaken at independent garages.

    Also by how much did the failure rate drop, (even if it did) when the chain driven pump was updated to the gear version??
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
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  37. sidibear
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    sidibear Looking for Zombies !! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 19, 2012]
    Mine is on 94K, 08 B7 140 2.0tdi. I have the gear drive.
    I have the Audi extended warranty and spoke with the guy yesterday and he said as its not a recall issue it should be covered under the engine and internal parts section as long as the servicing is up to date.(Which it is, dealer serviced receipts and book stamped).
    Apparently the warranty does not cover recall items, so a warranty on a 170 would not cover the injectors.
    #36
  38. tuffy
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    tuffy Member

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    [Dec 19, 2012]
    Probably too late for a Audi extended warranty purchase on the car im interested in
    #37

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