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Should I be getting wheel spin?

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by Iceash, Jun 5, 2012.

  1. Iceash
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    Iceash Member

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    [Jun 5, 2012]
    Hi all,

    Now we've had some lovely sunny hot weather I've been giving the Quattro some serious beans. To the point I thought I should be experiencing wheelspin. However I had now noticed when really trying to light the tyres up I notice the revs climb slightly more, but not massively only for a second then drop back down. Hope that all makes sense? The acceleration is fantastic so it feels it's laying all the power down.

    Just wondering if the clutch is slipping or if this is something to do with the Quattro system?

    The car is an AJL engine on 125 thousand miles.

    Any input would be great, thanks all.

    Ash
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2012
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  3. hardhitter
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    hardhitter Member

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    [Jun 5, 2012]
    If you don't hear the tyres break traction maybe your clutch is slipping a bit.
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  4. Iceash
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    Iceash Member

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    [Jun 5, 2012]
    Would that be expected or is that a sign the clutch is on it's way out?
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  5. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 5, 2012]
    Its probably 125k old, so not entirely surprising if its a bit tired!

    Our clutch slips on the avant if you change gear particularly hard, or try any sort of "launch"
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  6. Iceash
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    Iceash Member

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    [Jun 5, 2012]
    Launch is the word I'm looking for lol! Spot on as normal Aragorn. So I need to get it to last at least 3 months before I can change it... Thats if its worth changing yet. Could last a while like that?

    Oh I do tow a 2 berth caravan, and as long as I change gear correctly lol it storms off with the van in tow lol. So whats your verdict Doc?
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  7. marktdisport
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    marktdisport Active Member

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    [Jun 5, 2012]
    remember if it does start slipping 1. you may break down and 2. you could damage the flywheel causing more money in the long run...
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  8. Iceash
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    Iceash Member

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    [Jun 5, 2012]
    I've been told I'll have to change the flywheel regardless! Otherwise would be booked at the end of the month lol
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  9. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 5, 2012]
    ours has been slipping for months, and while it is steadily getting worse, its fine so long as you drive normally. Its now got to the point where it will slip simply by flooring it in 5th or changing gear and giving it a bootfull, but ease off and drive normally and it grips just fine.

    Pulling a caravan however is a fairly substantial load and could easily see it off if its marginal.

    If you can avoid towing then i'm sure it'll last just fine.
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  10. Iceash
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    Iceash Member

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    [Jun 5, 2012]
    I've got 2 small towing trips in the next few months, lalalala... I'll just have to pray a little and go back to driving normally. I assume the info I'm told about the dual mass flywheel is correct about changing when I get the clutch done?

    How long has yours been slipping for?
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  11. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 5, 2012]
    6 months perhaps? I'm upgrading to a 240mm clutch and single mass flywheel, so i'm not too worried about damaging the flywheel thats on there.
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  12. Iceash
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    Iceash Member

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    [Jun 5, 2012]
    I've following your posts on the single mass flywheel, If I can find a standard kit I might go down that road. Should be better for towing with so I'm told. If I honest I don't understand the pro's n con's of either :-s
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  13. Iceash
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    Iceash Member

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    [Jun 6, 2012]
    Well I've done a few more tests and starting to wonder if in fact it's my driving style slipping the clutch rather than the clutch starting to fail... If I roll along in first at near idle and then floor it, there is no slip at all and I'm tearing off! If I bring the revs up with the clutch more engaged then it doesn't slip. It also doesn't slip when towing the caravan up hills as a friend pointed out today lol
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  14. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 7, 2012]
    Thats how mine started off. If the clutch was already slipping, ie because you've just changed gear, or are stationary in 1st trying to pull away with a boot full of throttle, the clutch wasnt strong enough to actually lock up against the engine torque, and the RPM's would float around. It was very subtle in anything other than 1st initially, you'd just get a weird momentary effect where the car was accellerating but the RPM's were falling.

    If the clutch was fully engaged and you gave it full throttle, it gripped fine. Its slowly deteriorated over ~6months such that it will now slip if you give it full throttle in a higher gear. However predominantly its fine and can still be driven fairly briskly. If you get the clutch properly engaged you can pull thru 3rd gear at full throttle with no issues, but sit in 5th on a motorway at 70 and give it full thorttle and it will slip.

    The biggest issue i find is a gear change mid overtake. You'll be rolling along in say first, floor it and it rips thru 1st just fine, dip clutch, engage 2nd and floor it again, and because the power is applied before the clutch is fully locked up, the RPMs will just sit at 4-5k or so. The car still accellerates, and once the road speed matches the engine RPM's (or you lift off slightly) the clutch will grip again and the revs climb normally.

    Easiest way to see how bad it is, is to try 5th gear, full throttle at 70ish. If it just accellerates, you've probably got a while yet before it will give you serious issues, just be careful when slipping the clutch pulling away from junctions etc that you get the clutch fully engaged before applying lots of torque, espeically when towing.
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  15. Iceash
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    Iceash Member

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    [Jun 7, 2012]
    thankfully can floor it in 5th with van attached with no slipping.
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  16. Iceash
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    Iceash Member

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    [Jun 7, 2012]
    sorry phone went mad and reply'd before I'd finished! Sounds like I'd better be saving up. Is there a particular brand i should be looking for? Luk maybe?
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  17. murran
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    murran Active Member

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    [Jun 7, 2012]
    easiest way to guage the clutch is to get it pulling on full throttle in like 3rd, 4th or 5th a quickly kick the clutch pedal to unseat the clutch's static friction. does it grab again or just slip?
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  18. Iceash
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    Iceash Member

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    [Jun 7, 2012]
    I've been reading up further. No one seems to be able to wheel spin a quattro, standard anyway unless an RS4 or possibly and S4. I've spoken with a mechanic this evening he said to check the clutch by engaging 2nd, leaving the hand brake on. The engage the clutch with increasing revs. At this point you should stall or carry on reving lol. I stalled flat... so all good :)
    #17
  19. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 8, 2012]
    The torque on the clutch doing what you described there is fairly low though, and it'd only slip doing that if it was properly knackered.

    What murran describes is a better test, and i know for a fact mine would fail that.

    Point is a clutch doesnt just wear out like a switch, its a progressive thing, which will get slowly worse over time.
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  20. Iceash
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    Iceash Member

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    [Jun 8, 2012]
    all very true. 6months plue and i'm a happy boy failing that christmas will be cancelled lol
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  21. murran
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    murran Active Member

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    [Jun 8, 2012]
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  22. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 8, 2012]
    That slo-mo clip of the launch is pretty amazing, you can see the engine bounce up and down on its mounts and its pretty cool how you can see the 4wd system control the power and get it onto the strip.
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  23. Iceash
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    Iceash Member

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    [Jun 8, 2012]
    mwh, nearly as quick as mine. When I run mine on Cola, mine is quicker lol.

    Fantastic vid :)
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  24. murran
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    murran Active Member

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    [Jun 8, 2012]
    i know i watched that bit a few times, you can almost see the shell of the car go "oh no.... not again!" as it resists the forces from the launch.
    #23
  25. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    [Jun 11, 2012]
    240mm clutch is the way to go and if you go the way aragorn suggest it can work out a good mod for a reasonable price, my clutch was totally knackerd at about 120k iirc heres some pics

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    And whats fitted now using the 1z fly and S2 kit/vw lt ata agk and 240mm v8 friction disc

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    #24
  26. boost-addict
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    boost-addict Member

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    [Jun 14, 2012]
    ive never had a quattro before, but its currently approaching 151k, clutch was replaced at 120k but i think it was a pattern part from unipart. so my question is at 18psi 180bhp at flywheel well that's what the dyno print out says from last year.

    any how if i put my foot down hard from first i get literately no slip from clutch but at the same time no wheel spinning not even in the wet i have to try hard to do so. guessing thats a good sign meaning my quattro system is fully working, i think ive got play in my diff but for now its not bad,
    now if i slip the clutch a little to build boost from stand still the clutch will slip but quickly bite and show no signs of slipping ie, revs rising quicker then normal expected speed for given revs, also ive only got to touch the clutch pedel and the clutch disengages, and then slips, but also the clutch engages from the moment i lift the pedel from the bottom,
    does this sound normal, and im going to go for a south bend clutch but dreading the fitment!

    to me im thinking although the clutch can hold the power it has, when i ask it for more tourqe load ie slipping the clutch it cant bite down hard enough, would having 225/45/18's also cause the effect being its alot more grip then standard tyres
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