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School shooting in Connecticut.

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by StateOfPlay, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. StateOfPlay
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    StateOfPlay Active Member

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    What a terrible terrible tragedy.

    5 year old kids, shot dead at school, just as they were getting excited about Christmas. 18 children reported to have died.

    I will be even more pleased to see my family this Christmas, and I will be thinking of those who will not be able to be with theirs.
    #1
  2. A3simon
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    A3simon Active Member

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    Unbelievable Americans really need to look at the gun laws.
    #2
  3. sidibear
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    sidibear Looking for Zombies !! Staff Member Moderator

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    No they don't. Picture the scene, one armed teacher to return fire. You can put as much legislation in place but a psycho loony will still listen to the voices and commit atrocities just as this regardless of what tool he decides to use.

    But as I said to Shannon Burke earlier, at the moment lets just keep the politics out of it and give our thoughts to the families.
    #3
  4. jsmithee
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    jsmithee Member

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    So says the man who cannot stop bragging about all his guns, and thinks the police are in the wrong for stopping him because he was walking down the street with a gun (legal gun or not, that's good police work).
    #4
  5. CHEZ
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    CHEZ moderately amusing

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    no guns and it would not have happened!
    its not rocket science!
    far too common this tragedy in this day and age!
    so sad and very much avoidable!
    rip the innocent!
    #5
  6. silver_vw
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    silver_vw Member

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    Absolutely tragic. R.I.P.
    #6
  7. Artimus
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    Artimus Short Back

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    26 Dead.

    Next we'll hear how he was desensitised by playing violent games and watching SAW movies ...BS! we have the same games & movies over here, but no regular school shootings! what we don't have is a proliferation of guns.
    #7
  8. StateOfPlay
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    StateOfPlay Active Member

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    I am hearing he suffered from mental health issues and lived with his mum who had lots of guns in the house.

    The US will not stop the right to bear arms, as that is in the constitution. Be that the case, fine. But if that is what you want, then you have to take responsibility to protect the innocent, whatever it takes.

    I was very moved to hear about the teachers that ran to the rescue, unarmed, running into danger, giving their lives to try and save the lives of children.

    God bless.
    #8
  9. hughjass
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    hughjass Is there somefin in my teef?

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    It's a complete and utter disgrace this has happened again.

    I appreciate he had mental health issues, but why oh why do these loons pick schools to kill innocent unarmed children.?

    This world is going mad?
    #9
  10. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Terrible news and at Christmas as well just makes it even worse,RIP
    #10
  11. sidibear
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    sidibear Looking for Zombies !! Staff Member Moderator

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    There is no way you are going to remove all the guns for the USA, and if you did, the bad guys would still keep theirs.

    Dislike my posts or not, the fact is that this guy had mental issues and no amount of legislation would have stopped him getting something to kill people with. If its in his mind to do it then he is going to go out and do it, no matter what is and what isn't banned.

    What you are failing to take note of is that if other people at the school, teachers , principles etc, were armed, then he may have been stopped a bit quicker.

    JSmithee, please give me list of all my posts bragging, if you have read them as bragging then you have misread them. With regards me being stopped by the police, I was in my rights, he had no reason to 1 stop me and 2 talk to me like he did, even my FEO agreed.. I shoot for Team GBR, last year I finished 18th in the UK, this year I finished 12th. My Shooting is a sport in which I compete, its my hobby and past time.It used to be my employment as an instructor, then I worked for a foreign security company until injury prevented me continuing. I still voluntarily instruct now but at a club level, I also instruct for shooting for the blind and disabled. I take part in charity shoots for Help for Heroes and the DPOA. All this costs me time and money but I do it to educate other about firearms safety and control. I think I do a good job in teaching others how to shoot, people want to learn, there are not that many qualified instructors out there with a high level of experience, and even less who want to donate around 20 hours a month free of charge. If you are offended about my poststhen don't read them. There are two sides to every argument, and if you have a third then you are not in receipt of the full facts.

    Chez, Guns have been around for over a hundred years, you are not going to remove them from society over night. Before that there were swords and clubs. Man has been using weapons to kill each other for centuries. A gun is inanimate, just like a bat, a sword, even a sock with a pool ball in it, it is nothing until someone holds it and does something with it. You need to control who is holding it. This guy had mental issues, he should not have been holding it.
    It is however, getting more common, and by banning guns you are not going to stop it happening. Fight fire with fire? I agree something needs to be done but what? We can all have our own opinions and mine is to not be a defenceless victim. If the other guy has a club you should have a club. Violence and escalation? Depends on how you view it, but if you are unarmed against an armed attacker then you are just an unarmed victim.
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2012
    #11
  12. sidibear
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    sidibear Looking for Zombies !! Staff Member Moderator

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    Mucking, don't just dislike, state your case, tell me where you dislike my post.

    The simple fact is that both the UK and USA have gun laws designed to protect the public, unfortunately both these countries laws tend to protect the guilty. Let me explain.
    What link can we see from the past couple of atrocities both here and America.
    Virginia Tech, Colorado Cinema and now an elementary school in Connecticut. All the people assaulted were unarmed and very unlikely to be able to fight back, the (cowardly) assailant picked these locations for that very reason.
    In Virginia two of the tutors ran to their cars to get their guns so they could return fire, but was too late, the school has a ban on teachers carrying concealed weapons of even having them in their possession, so the only way of protecting the pupils was left in a car some 500 yards from the school.
    Colorado, the cinema had ban on concealed weapons except for law enforcement, the police took 15 minutes to arrive on the scene. If only 10% of the 200 patrons were carrying, that's 20 guns that could have returned fire at someone who was stood on the stage firing into the crowd.
    Connecticut, not enough information has been released and so I am not going to make assumptions based on what is currently available. He was a loner with issues.
    The US has their gun laws, no convicted felons or history of mental issues, just like the UK, the law doesn't always work.

    Hungerford, Dunblane and Whitehaven. Michael Ryan was a known local idiot who the police were warned about and had a previous assault conviction. Thomas Hamilton was a known paedophile and Derrick Bird suffered from depression and had had his guns taken of him a few years previously but they were returned.
    People died in the hands of these three people because the public were failed by the very system put in place to protect them. None of these three people should have had access to firearms as part of the firearms licensing conditions.

    Any armed member of the public in all six of these examples could have returned fire, armed police take and did take too long to attend the scene and were too late to minimise casualties.

    Michael Ryan was the reason automatic rifles of a calibre larger than .22 were banned, Personally I kinda agreed, you can't hunt with them and you can't really target shoot with them.
    Thomas Hamilton of Dunblane was the reason handguns were banned in the UK and deserves a special mention because of the two counter signatures on his license application. One was the chief of police (despite on the application form it says the signer cannot be a serving police officer) and the other signature was none other than Gordon Brown, (yes, that one). The Cullen report is online and you can easily find it, what parts of it they will allow you to see of course, the rest is subject to a 100 year secrecy clause, the tin hat theorists amongst us can come to your own conclusions about that.
    Derrick Bird. He should not have had his guns returned to him, plain and simple, the system failed the people it was designed to protect. The Prime Minister said that no changes would be made to the current firearms legislation as they are adequate. If they had been enforced as they should have been it may never have happened.
    The UK has strict gun laws, no police record, (even speeding offences can go against you), you need to be a member of a home office approved gun club, serve a probation period, have two references, a good reason to want to own a gun, allow access to your medical records and an interview with the local firearms officer. This system works, as long as its adhered to, its a good system and I agree with it.
    My main shooting sport is practical shotgun which involves a lot of thinking about how you will shoot the course of fire, which order to take the targets and when you will load the gun to reduce your time while still being accurate. Anyone who turns up in anything camo is not allowed to shoot, we do not want the rambo kinda crowd. The guns used are multi capacity shotguns, mine holds 12 rounds and is held on a section 1 firearms license. A shotgun with a magazine held on a shotgun license can only hold a maxim of three rounds. A section 1 shotgun is just about the hardest of all license conditions to fulfil due to its nature, running round with a loaded gun in the company of others takes a large amount of experience for safety. and I have to hold an international competition license like most other practical shooters, but over the last couple of years this has been relaxed to encourage more shooters to take up the sport.
    Good thing bad thing? Only time will tell.
    Yes I am pro gun, but only because I have been around them most of my life. I do agree legislation has to be there and is necessary, but a knee jerk reaction to a situation is just that, a reaction. If the rules and regulations are followed by everyone then things like this should never happen, but sometimes its necessary to carry a bigger stick than the next guy.
    Thanks for reading.
    #12
  13. sportstractor
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    sportstractor Chugger

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    It may not be practical and maybe a bit naive, but people shouldn't be allowed to carry firearms for self defence. It's quite strict in this country, and you need to grounds for a licence. Haven't got a clue about the US, but from TV etc i assume its alot more relaxed.

    My younger brother recently went through all the procedure to get his shot guns and rifle licences (upto 308 I believe). And I was quite impressed in how personal and in-depth it was in the UK. Of course, there will always be other illegal channels to gain a weapon.

    Its quite upsetting that this happened, but nutters like that shouldn't be able to get there hands on weapons so easily.
    #13
  14. Artimus
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    Artimus Short Back

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    agree with Sidibear above!

    maybe a locker on school grounds with only a few well trained tutors allowed access, would have given them a chance to save some of those lives.

    non-the-less, it's a very sad event, made even worse by the fact the shooter has evaded any form of 'justice'! my sympathies go to the families of the victims.
    #14
  15. Mucking
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    Mucking New Member

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    Of 62 mass murders carried out in the US since 1982, three quarters of the 139 firearms used by the killers were held legally. Of these, more than 60 were semi-automatic handguns and over 30 were assault weapons.

    Tell me that has nothing to do with the proliferation of fire arms?

    I am pro gun in certain situations.. In the states like here there needs to be stricter controls in place. People walking round with guns in normal day life is not needed.

    I've shot many guns in my life ranging from .22 rifles and shotguns right up to 5.56mm assualt rifles.. and it's great but should I be allowed to own one? No.. not at all....

    If the controls were there in the first place these massacres wouldn't of happened.
    #15
  16. Les 51
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    Les 51 A pint of Diesel please!

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    Whatever we like or dislike about guns, you wont be able to stop people owning them in the States.
    There are just too many legal or illegal to start with.
    This is just another tragedy that has happened regardless of the law.
    I think we need to be thinking about the friends and family first and foremost.
    #16
  17. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    #17
  18. sidibear
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    sidibear Looking for Zombies !! Staff Member Moderator

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    Mucking, how many were random acts of violence? It is around 10 cases was it not? In the figure you quote there are disgruntled employees, sacked workers and racist attacks as well as a couple upset at the amount of gays in the military and the church, spurned lovers and failed businessmen. What about the day trader who lost a pile of money and went on a rampage? A couple of day earlier he had killed his wife and kids with a hammer. There is also guy who shot dimebag Darrell and several other people because his favourite band has split up?
    The point of all this is legal held firearm or not, sometime people just have a switch flicked that pushes them over the edge. In the USA you have the second amendment, which at least gives you a chance to shoot back. But as of yet, there is no legislation against insanity.

    In 2010 over a third of US citizens owned a firearm, and there were approx 310.000,000 none military firearms known to the authorities. Around 32 people a day are shot in the USA, that exceeds the figure killed in Afghanistan, (Source redressonline). This figure takes into account murder, police and self defence shootings. That is still one hell of a lot of legal held firearms that are not used to kill someone. Its the person behind the gun, not the weapon itself.

    Les 51, wise words, thank you.

    Sportstractor, you will know first hand how difficult it is to get a firearm license in this country from your brothers experience. If you cannot carry a firearm for self defence in the USA then you are just an unarmed victim. You don't have to carry, but its your choice. Look at Washington DC, a few years ago they banned concealed carry in the district, mugging and car jacking went up 30% because the bad guys knew they were not going to get hurt and that their victim was unarmed. the citizens got fed up of this and decided to open carry, crime dropped back to its usual level.
    Kennesaw co in Georgia, its mandatory to own a firearm. crime is next to none existent.
    #18
  19. Nilz
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    Nilz Defo worth the wait :)

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    Was really moved to hear about this, was out on a works do, didnt know anything about it and after a few drinks and coming home I was in good spirits until I put the TV on, this instantly changed, I was instantly sobered up and it most definitely brought tears to my eyes.

    I got a call earlier in the day from nursery to say my little boy wasnt too good, it doesnt bear to think, the parents over there would have got a phone call too......but with a VERY different message on the other end.

    RIP to the children and the teachers who passed away to whilst trying to protect the kids.

    Was very upsetting seeing Obamas speech too, you could see he was genuinely upset by it too.
    #19
  20. CHEZ
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    CHEZ moderately amusing

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    all valid points made above, and as said my thoughts go out to the families of the poor little victims at this time.

    it is correct that it is a different way of life in the states and to own a gun is not a taboo subject like it is over here!
    over here though, it seems it is the legal guns owned by the people licensed to own them that are carrying out the massacres in this country.
    as sidi said it is the person holding the gun thats the problem! and this needs to be vetted more effectively imo!
    like i previously stated, if there were no guns available, then they could not be used! simple as! and would have to use a club or a sock with a pool ball in it or whatever!
    cast your mind back to the beginning of this year, when a person i personally knew, michael atherton, i briefly worked with him, regularly chatted to him in the local tackle shop, did not smoke, do drugs have a drink problem, was a taxi driver so was good with people and generally a good egg and a down to earth guy.
    he owned shot guns and enjoyed shooting game, (rabbit and pheasant and such)
    something pushed mick over the edge one night and as you will all have seen on the news, gunned down several family members in his own house before turning the gun on himself!
    tragic, and very much avoidable as when the police complaints investigation that was carried out it discovered that his weapons were revoked previously because of an issue regarding his mental state!
    his weapons were reissued, and the rest was history.
    like i said earlier i knew mick and he was not your regular fruit loop and was very much a sane together guy on the surface!

    the police need a different way of doing things with regard to issuing gun licences. simple as! period!

    a good friend of mine has been shooting with air rifles for years, and just last week had the police around his house to assess him on a firearm licence he has applied for (a .22 bullet rifle), and as much as he is a top lad with no previous skeletons in his closet etc, the police officer told him that he seen no reason why he would not be issued with it at all!
    now what is to say something in the future pushes my mate over the edge?
    maybe a tragic accident affects him mentally? or his wife runs off with the milkman? or his dog dies? what is to say that he wont go to the gun cupboard and carry out something like we are regularly seeing on the news these days?
    highly unlikely, but you see my point.
    if there were no guns available it would not happen! simples.

    and tragedies like this will happen again sadly, i just hope its later rather than sooner, and i hope the government step in and come up with a good system to fix this!
    #20
  21. ScottD3
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    ScottD3 I want your faulty electronics

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    Sorry sidi and Chez, I've not read your war and peace posts but I will in time. :)

    Bad guys, mental or not, will get hold of guns or other means to hurt people. I doubt making it legal for them to own guns will really stop them.
    Legal ramifications are possible the last thing on their mind if they are intent on killing people.

    I wonder why we never hear about crimes that never happened cause some citizen was carrying?
    I've seen the videos on YouTube.
    #21
  22. sidibear
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    sidibear Looking for Zombies !! Staff Member Moderator

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    Chez,
    Great post :icon_thumright:

    With regards your mate with his air rifle. I take it he shoots vermin? If so, the land he shoots on will have been passed for that calibre gun and the person who owns the land will have backed his application. When he goes out to shoot on the land he will have to let the police know where he is and car reg etc, just in case of public alarm.
    The gun laws we have here in the UK are adequate, but the vetting process is where the system is let down and failures can happen. Some people are on good terms with the local police and sometimes "minor indiscretions" are over looked, just like in the case of your mate, the guy at Dunblane and Cumbria. And that's when it hits the spotlight because the system has failed those it is designed to protect.
    You are right, if no guns were available it couldn't happen, but they are and it does. Its how we learn from it and go forward to prevent it happening again is what is important. A lot of the handguns seized in the UK are Makarovs and Tokarevs, coming in from Eastern Europe, so maybe our borders and customs need to be more vigilant.
    You could go as far to say that anyone who plays video games should not have a gun, or anyone who has no friends or in the case of the USA, no postal workers. Its not the gun laws that needs to be reviewed its the vetting process, but what's to be done?
    I don't know the answer or solution, maybe it will never be found, but that doesn't mean we have to stop trying.
    #22
  23. Mucking
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    Mucking New Member

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    The statistics say it all:

    England and Wales: 6.2 firearms for every 100 people
    In 2011: 41 homicides by firearm - 0.07 per 100,000 population. 6.6% of all homicides are by firearm.

    US: 88.8 firearms for every 100 people
    2011: 9,146 homicides by firearm - 2.97 per 100,000 population. 60% of all homicides are by firearm.

    Source: UNODC, via the Guardian

    Those figures speak for themselves....

    Like i said I'm a fan of guns i like them a lot but not in the hands of normal people..
    #23
  24. sidibear
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    sidibear Looking for Zombies !! Staff Member Moderator

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    Unfortunately the USA figures also take into account firearms used in self defence and police action. In 2011 it was around 1% of firearm incidents were fatalities relating from self defence.
    The UK figures don't separate out bad boy gansta shootings to legal held firearm related incidents, and it also shows that there are 93.4% of people killed without a firearm being involved.

    I don't like guns in the hands of bad guys, and while they have them, I think its only right the USA citizens also have them to protect themselves.
    #24
  25. Dazmo
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    Dazmo Active Member

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    I agree with you sidbear, the guns are not the issue!

    They are only 20% of the issue, i still think if the school principle had been armed and trained to use a handgun, or if they had one locked in her office, she could have walked into that corridor and put two into his head before he killed half of those kids.

    It amazes me that after other incidents and with the amount of guns in the USA that no security or weaponry was on site at all, these kids were easy targets as were the teachers.

    Every school in the USA should have armed security staff, undercover marshalls/police or at least staff trained or partially armed for these situations.

    A single pistol locked in the principles office could have ended or at least delayed the nutter before he could cause as much damage!

    Just looking at the photos of these kids really upsets me and makes me feel physically sick, i just cannot imagine what the families are going through or even what the first police on scene had to see. I am angry this little ****** shot himself as now their can be no justice.

    Its one thing getting hold of hand guns but being able to so easily access military grade assault rifles is just wrong in my opinion, the fact that his mother trained such a mentally challenged kid to shoot and use those weapons sickens me even more.

    Unfortunately there is no point in trying to apply logic where their is none, these nutters will always exist, guns or not and he could have just as easily walked into that school with a chainsaw and easily created as much damage.

    RIP little ones, no child deserves to see and die like that.:bye:
    #25
  26. StateOfPlay
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    StateOfPlay Active Member

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    All this chatter about how good guns are is all well and good, but we don't have the right to hold guns in the UK.

    And yet I feel safe at night. I can walk the streets. I know there is crime out there, but it is still rare thankfully.

    Start making it easier to get hold of guns and all that changes.

    I like the way it is over here, I don't want to live in a country where everyone without a criminal record can buy any gun they like. The more guns there are, the easier it is for the crims and the mentally ill to get hold of.

    I feel safer knowing that 47 people dies from guns in the UK, I would be worried if that was 470.

    65 million people in the UK, 47 gun deaths. 350 million in the US, 9000 gun deaths.

    Statistically speaking, I am safer in the UK than I am in the US.

    Anyone that tells me guns are fine, they are a good idea, I just say to you, I prefer the odds of not having guns everywhere, thank you.
    #26
  27. sidibear
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    sidibear Looking for Zombies !! Staff Member Moderator

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    Stateof, one of the biggest risks of arming the UK police is that it will make them targets for criminals wanting guns.
    In the US I have an open and concealed permit in those states that allow it, and I am one of the rare number that can concealed carry in NY and DC, but I chose not to open carry at all because of risk of attack. (My step father is an attorney at law in DC and he needs me to be armed if I am out with him).
    I like you, feel more at ease here in the UK than the USA.
    #27
  28. StateOfPlay
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    StateOfPlay Active Member

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    Sidibear, I agree with a lot of what you are saying. That massacre could have happened anywhere, we have no huge gun problem that I know of in the UK, but we have spree killings of our own. Two years ago that Taxi driver killed 12 people.

    What seems to happen is a shocking incident occurs and everyone goes on about gun control. But gun control isn't going to make sure this will never happen again. Only if all guns in the world were destroyed would you be able to guarantee that, which is unable to happen. So even if you have the same gun laws as we have in the UK, there will still be a chance of another school shooting/mall shooting/cinema shooting in the US.

    But what is worth looking at is the sheer numbers of gun murders, and then Americans having a debate as to how they can reduce this awful statistic. We need to bear in mind that our record in the UK is good in comparison, but we must not be complacent.

    We have approximately 141000 Firearms certificates in issue in the UK. How many of them are held by people that sometimes drink to excess, or like to smoke the weed? How many of them have undiagnosed mental health issues?
    #28
  29. Ste_Nova
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    Ste_Nova Active Member

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    random question but i wonder if any of the kids could have defended them selfs if armed?
    And she didn't want to shoot!!! - YouTube

    i'm guessing gun exposure happens at a young age in the us and many of them were scared cause they didnt have a gun and couldn't fight back
    #29
  30. sidibear
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    sidibear Looking for Zombies !! Staff Member Moderator

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    To get a firearms license here in the UK you have to be a member of a home office approved club and have two referees sign as to your good character. At the club you would have had to serve a three month probationary period, you get to know people quite well during that time and can usually assess whether they are suitable for a gun license or not.
    I have instructed firearms at clubs here in the UK for about 6 years, I have also instructed police and other people here in tactical use. I previously did a lot of demonstration work for H&K and Sig and worked for a foreign security company abroad. I was taught by a guy who looks like super mario at a small little place that sounds like dark coloured liquid. I am a NRA qualified range officer, I have a Strike L1 weapons handling qualification. From both H&K and Sig I have a grade 1 gunsmith cert. I used to earn my living demonstrating, shooting and instructing other in the use of firearms. I have held a section 5 and both section 7 firearms licenses here in the UK.

    But, despite all this, when I went to join my local gun club, I had to serve a three month probationary period and be instructed in the use of a .22 scoped rifle and was not allowed on the range without a full member or instructor present. I accepted the rules and I followed them. The system is in place and it works, but if just one part of it is overlooked or neglected for one reason or another, that's where it starts to break down and it all goes wrong.
    #30
  31. StateOfPlay
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    StateOfPlay Active Member

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    It is a bit easier to get a shotgun licence isn't it?
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  32. sidibear
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    sidibear Looking for Zombies !! Staff Member Moderator

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    Oh yes, surprisingly easy. The police have to have a reason not to allow you a shotgun license, unlike a firearm license where you have to have good reason to have one.
    For a shotgun license, download the form online, fill it in, get someone to counter sign it, doctor, lawyer, manager etc, fit yourself a gun cabinet to store it in and send off the paperwork and your money with a reason to own along the lines of wanting it for clay pigeon shooting or something. An Firearms Enforcement Officer will come round to have a chat with you and check your security. If there are no problems your license will be in the post.

    And yes, there is nothing as destructive at close range as a shotgun.

    Like I said, surprisingly easy to apply for, maybe this needs addressing?
    #32
  33. deanosabby
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    deanosabby Member

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    #33
  34. shady-ninja
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    shady-ninja Member

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    :yahoo:thats funny.
    but for the poor kids in the after-life, its all over and i feel sorry for their parents.
    #34
  35. DaveslyUSP
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    DaveslyUSP New Member

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    I'm from the U.S.A. Connecticut actually, and all I have to say is guns do not kill people, people kill people. All we have to do (americans) is make the screening process a lot longer and harder to own/purchase a gun I own 3 guns and it literally took me 3 hours to get them. But I am no psycho that will start shooting up places for the hell of it. I wish this guy was still alive so he could get beat and find out why he did it.
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  36. sidibear
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    sidibear Looking for Zombies !! Staff Member Moderator

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    Dave,
    Welcome to the forum.
    What we have had here is a well balanced debate. But at the end of the day its a tragedy that has happened and all our collective thoughts are with the families of the victims.
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  37. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Welcome, Dave.

    There are few things that illustrate the difference between our two countries more than our historic attitude to firearms. I suspect that the instinctive reaction of many UK citizens to hearing the awful news of what happened last week would be "If only there were fewer guns, it wouldn't have happened", whereas in the US, I imagine the instinctive reaction might be "If only there were more guns, it wouldn't have happened". To argue that either position is right or wrong is pointless.

    The idea of a school having a store of firearms on site (which has been mentioned earlier), even if the intention is for the protection of its pupils and staff, fills me with horror. Equally, however, the UK having fewer guns in circulation did not prevent Thomas Hamilton from shooting all those children in Dunblane.

    I cannot pretend to have any idea what the answer is. I have read Sidibear's comments on here, and am definitely uncomfortable with some of them, even if only by instinct. But there is little doubt that his opinions are based on vast experience and knowledge of firearms, so regardless of whether one agrees or disagrees with him, his views bear listening to and respecting.
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  38. sidibear
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    sidibear Looking for Zombies !! Staff Member Moderator

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    Its worth noting that the sales of firearms and ammunition are increasing again in the USA, just like after the Aurora Cinema shootings. People want to feel safe against an armed attacker, and having the ability to shoot back makes them feel safer. But personally I would strongly recommend them to get the correct training, as it will make all the difference in a difficult situation.
    I feel that all USA gun owners should take the correct training for their firearm choice from someone with the necessary qualification, not just a friend who shoots. Ask at your local police station, a lot of LEO's will offer to help and advise you.

    And anyone in the UK who is considering taking up the sport of shooting do the same thing, firearms or shotgun for clay shooting. My advice on here is free and readily available to all. Please take advantage of this offer if you need to.

    (I don't mind instructing midland members of this forum in clay shooting and gun safety FOC. you pay for clays and carts. Not biased against anywhere else, its just that I am Midlands based.)
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
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  39. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    My dad was a police marksman, but this was during the 1960s and 70s, when officers never routinely armed, and the occasions when those with training were called into action were few and far between. As far as I can recall (and it is a long time ago now), I don't believe he was ever required to use a firearm in the course of his duty. He said very little about this aspect of being a policeman. The only real memory I have of it is that every six months, he would have to go up to Maidstone for refresher training and testing.

    I don't know how good a shot he was, but if he was even only half as accurate with a gun as he was with a set of darts and a dartboard, he'll have been deadly!
    #39
  40. lgooch
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    lgooch Active Member

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    Clearly the debate whether to arm or not arm will roll on and will remain a contentious issue. I am just glad we don't have the same issues over here to that kind of level. It seems to be every month that some nutter runs amok in a school or college in the US and then turns the gun on themselves. Cowards way out if you ask me.

    Thoughts have to go with the families. I have already lost one daughter and I cannot imagine dropping my 3 year old off at school/nursery to be told she had been shot by a maniac. I just don't know how I would cope.
    #40

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