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S4 temperature gauge oddity.

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by Dan Gliballs, Apr 6, 2008.

  1. Dan Gliballs
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    Dan Gliballs Active Member

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    [Apr 6, 2008]
    Was driving to a gig lastnight and noticed the temp gauge wasn't rising above 70-75 degrees, and the oil temp was barely showing 80-85 degrees,..............over an entire 60 mile roundtrip.

    I could SWEAR that they normally sit at around 90 and 120 degrees respectively?

    Admittedly it was only about 2 or 3 degrees outside the car lastnight, but that never seemed to affect the engine temps at optimum.

    I fitted the new 710N's on Friday, but durning the roadtest all gauges looked normal.

    There's nothing I could've disturbed at the front of the engine is there? Surely if I had knocked a sensor, the gauges wouldn't rise at ALL?

    Weird thermostat?

    The car was going like a rocket though, and no other problems.
    #1
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  3. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 6, 2008]
    Do the gauges get to temp if left idling?
    If so then that would point to the thermostat stuck open. As it's effecting oil as well then that's all it can be really. Had the same problem on my 2.8Q and new thermostat fixed it.
    #2
  4. Dan Gliballs
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    Dan Gliballs Active Member

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    [Apr 6, 2008]
    Cheers Andy :)

    I'll sit it at idle later to see what happens.

    I forgot to listen out for the fans,....didn't notice them though.
    #3
  5. Dan Gliballs
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    Dan Gliballs Active Member

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    [Apr 6, 2008]
    Or come to think of it, maybe I upset/dislodged the connection to the thermostat.

    I'll check tomorrow in daylight when the snow has gone lol
    #4
  6. mattfinn
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    mattfinn Smoking is good for you

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    [Apr 6, 2008]
    If it goes like fook Dan why you sweating mate? Mine sounds like a jet since I fitted the 710n's and Milltek!
    #5
  7. mattfinn
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    mattfinn Smoking is good for you

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    [Apr 6, 2008]
    Sorry dan, to add a serious post, mine wont rise much if I cruise it in cold weather, rarely seeing 75-80! If it's at night, zero traffic, so sat still and constant cold air being rammed into the SMIC;s then it always is cold. Take it out tonight, at full tilt, and report back! Sack the snow, ya got quattro! I drove back from WuShu tonight in the snow, loved it!
    #6
  8. Blue_Thunder
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    Blue_Thunder Active Member

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    [Apr 6, 2008]
    Your oil will only get to 120 if you are absolutely caning it on country roads or a track.
    #7
  9. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    [Apr 6, 2008]
    Blue Thunder's absolutely right.

    Oil and water temp seldom move together.

    At high rpm and road speed, coolant remains constant, as long as thermostat's working fine, regardless of ambient temperature (88 - 90 degrees). Oil temp will rise.

    At low rpm and road speed, coolant temp MAY rise marginally, about up to about 93 degrees on a hot day. Oil temp will drop.

    If the thermostat is jammed shut, or coolant is lost, the block will obviously get hotter, may overheat. In such conditions, this is one of the ocassions that oil and coolant temps will rise together, due to heat transfer.

    My oil, even at sustained high speed, seldom rises above 115 degrees, and my coolant sits at a constant 89 degrees.

    It's possible Dan's thermostat MAY be opening a fraction too early, but not something I'd worry about.
    #8
  10. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 6, 2008]
    Both mine sit bang on "12 oclock" no matter the weather or style of driving. That's what all the gizmo's are for, so your car is at optimum temp all the time. If the car is running cold then it will put extra wear on all the mechanicals, just like caning it when it hasn't warmed up properly (but all the time), so yes, I would worry about it and get it sorted.
    #9
  11. Dan Gliballs
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    Dan Gliballs Active Member

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    [Apr 6, 2008]
    Pheeeeww, not just me then lol

    I knew my needles sat at 12 o'clock,......thought I was going mad there.

    I'm one for staring at the gauges, since I've had several Vauxhall turbo engines.
    #10
  12. Blue_Thunder
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    Blue_Thunder Active Member

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    [Apr 6, 2008]
    If the oil temp needle is always sitting at 12 o'clock on an S4, you've got problems!

    Depending what oil you use, it will be very viscous at 120. Wouldn't fancy mine running this hot for too long.
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  13. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    [Apr 6, 2008]
    Under normal driving conditions, 120 degrees for oil is on the high side, regardless of engine type.
    #12
  14. Dan Gliballs
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    Dan Gliballs Active Member

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    [Apr 6, 2008]
    Well it hasn't been a problem for the last 17 thousand miles lol
    #13
  15. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 7, 2008]
    Nor me for the last 150k miles
    #14
  16. Blue_Thunder
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    Blue_Thunder Active Member

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    [Apr 7, 2008]
    Andy, don't you drive a 2.8? Just wondering if your oil temp gauge is 120 at the 12 o'clock position, the same as the S4 gauge?

    After my 20 minute drive to work today (mostly off boost), my oil temp only reached 80. Mine will go over 100 if i'm on a motorway, but only reach 120 when really pushing it. Never seen it go higher than 120.
    #15
  17. Markey
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    Markey Active Member

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    [Apr 7, 2008]
    I know mine is a 1.8T but at normal driving they sit right on 12:00 but if i am hammering it the engine temp drops down quite a bit i will put i pictures later.
    #16
  18. Dan Gliballs
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    Dan Gliballs Active Member

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    [Apr 7, 2008]

    Hmmmmmm, maybe it was just the coolant temperature that was sitting at 12 o'clock,.........so my 80 degree indication worries me less now for the oil temp then :cool:

    DAMN I wish I'd done video footage of the car on the move before lol

    I'm driving 300 miles up to Lancaster today, so i'll see how it all goes ;)
    #17
  19. jonnya
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    jonnya Member

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    [Apr 7, 2008]
    Sounds like your thermostat is bust. When they fail, they fail open. Does it take a
    long time to move from 60 as well?
    #18
  20. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 7, 2008]
    Well this is my dash after just idling in the drive. There's only about 2mm difference between 110 & 120 degrees, but I think we're all agreed water temp at 90 is absolutely correct, so as the water is cooling the oil then obviously the oil has to be hotter than the coolant.
    [​IMG]
    #19
  21. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    [Apr 7, 2008]
    Oil is pretty hot for mere idling.
    #20
  22. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 7, 2008]
    Yep, as hot as it should be.
    Can't believe there's so many people on here offering "advice" when they blatantly don't know how an engine works. Once the oil is up to temp, it may vary 2-3 degrees either way, but the whole point of oil coolers, thermostatically controlled cooling systems etc is to keep the oil at operating temp regardless of whether you're idling or caning it. This is what prevents damage to your engine. Do you honestly think the oil temp rises & falls depending on your driving style?
    #21
  23. GSB1
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    GSB1 Member

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    [Apr 7, 2008]
    I don't know if 2.8q engines are typically like this or if Andy's is not the norm, but this is not the oil temperature to expect from an S4. It is too high!

    You may see those temps when ABSOLUTLEY HAMMERING the car on a hot day, but it's not good and reaching the limits of the oil as I understand it. Yes of course the oil temperature varies depending on your driving!

    Dan - I'd have a search but as I understand it it could be thermostat - but due to it's location and effort to change you probably hope not. I believe there is more than one temp sensor that could cause funny readings.
    #22
  24. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    [Apr 7, 2008]
    Wow, my apologies.

    I know nothing about engines, I'll keep my advice / opinions to myself.
    #23
  25. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 8, 2008]
    90 & 110-120 are mid point on the coolant/oil temp dials for a reason guys! RTFM
    #24
  26. docurley
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    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 8, 2008]
    Well I did some reading and 150 is way to hot for idling and should be around 100 mark and only after some heavy driving will it go above that.

    Read this thread: Link
    #25
  27. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    [Apr 8, 2008]
    Andy, relax. It's a discussion forum, and folk will often speak from experience, rather than what the manual says.

    Most things in the manual are seldom agreed with, or even adhered to.

    As I've said, I apologise for my input. Someone voiced concerns, and I gave my input, based upon MY experiences.
    #26
  28. billybravo
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    billybravo MODERATOR

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    [Apr 8, 2008]
    i would check the water pump mate i had the same prob last week and i checked everything before i did the pump


    the pump had given up and wasnt pumping fully as the plastic propeller was slipping on the shaft


    Thats my opinion :D
    #27
  29. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 8, 2008]
    Likewise Siena, I've had VAG cars for the last 15 years and they've all run at mid point on the dials. My point is that many people on here have just commented "that's too hot" without any explanation as to why they think this or any facts to back it up. Not particularly useful.
    I've backed my opinion up with 150k miles of experience on current Audi and also the factual info in the owners manual (vague though it is).
    Not one person has actually explained why this is incorrect!
    #28
  30. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 8, 2008]
    In the last 50k miles on my A4 the water temp runs at 12 oclock 90 degrees and the oil at around 90 degrees too. The only time i saw higher oil temps was on the rolling road and when i blew mine up, it was round at 120 then
    #29
  31. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    [Apr 8, 2008]
    When mine almost blew up, and the oil pressure warning appeared twice on the DIS, I'd lost coolant, and the oil temperature was sitting at about 145 degrees.
    #30
  32. Blue_Thunder
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    Blue_Thunder Active Member

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    [Apr 8, 2008]
    Don't really know how you can compare one engine's optimum running temperature with another, but I know from owning an S4 that 120 degrees is not a normal operating temperature for the oil in an 2.7T. Why would they have fitted an uprated oil cooler to the RS4?

    If you're running something like 10-50, then you should be ok sitting at 120 degrees. However if you use a more viscous oil, ie: 10-40, which is recommended for the S4, you are in danger of the oil becoming too viscous and not protecting your engine properly.
    #31
  33. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 8, 2008]
    Errrr, because it's kicking out 380bhp not 265 from essentially the same engine?
    I think a 50% increase in power is gonna make everything run slightly hotter.

    OK what we've managed to establish so far:
    1. My car is finally going to blow up after 150k miles of running too hot!
    2. Oil temp should be about 110 degrees (which mine is as shown in pic)
    3. The oil temp gauge is not really accurate enough as 1mm movement = 5 degrees
    4. The S4 runs cooler than a 2.8Q (and all other VAG cars) for some bizarre reason
    5. 150 degrees is definately too hot (no **** sherlock)
    6. A modified car will tend to run hotter unless it's had uprated oil cooler parts.
    7. Below 100 is too cool
    8. Coolant should sit at 90.

    Let me know if I've missed anything, and please feel free to take anything out of context and then beat me around the head with it.
    #32
  34. docurley
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    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 8, 2008]
    Any you having a bad day or something as you never kick off like this normally.

    You seem to be taking this personally like people are attacking you when all people are doing is giving an opinion. Like most threads people read them and tend to take the advise of someone who backs it up ore imply they know what they are talking about so I would not worry about it myman.
    #33
  35. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 8, 2008]
    Eh? I always kick off like this normally!
    #34
  36. docurley
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    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 8, 2008]
    Then I missed them. and you is a bad boy :asskicking:
    #35
  37. Blue_Thunder
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    Blue_Thunder Active Member

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    [Apr 8, 2008]
    Sorry Andy, not trying to wind you up mate, just stating some truths. The 1.8T and 2.8Q may run hotter, but this thread was started by an S4 owner wanting to know if his oil temp looked dodgy. I, as a fellow S4 driver, was simply letting him know both what I have seen in my time of ownership, but also what I have learned by reading up on both the S4 and oils (yeah, i'm a boring f**k).

    BTW - My S4 is running over 400bhp on standard cooling, and as stated above, those are the oil temps i'm getting now.

    :yahoo:
    #36
  38. smitch
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    smitch Active Member

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    [Apr 8, 2008]
    He's right, and it does surprise me how people always end up in these disputes with Andy as i don't think i've ever seen him back down or make a claim without evidence to back it up!

    I do find these little disputes amusing. :sly:

    And i don't know much about engines but my S4 water tempr uns at 90c, dunno about the oil though....
    #37
  39. GSB1
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    GSB1 Member

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    [Apr 8, 2008]
    We could stop the oil temp discussion as Dan's oil temp sounds fine, it's his water temp that is not.

    Had it fault scanned yet?
    #38
  40. SonicDeathmonkey
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    SonicDeathmonkey Member

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    [Apr 8, 2008]
    Sounds to me like a load of people are on the rag...
    #39
  41. SonicDeathmonkey
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    SonicDeathmonkey Member

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    [Apr 8, 2008]
    For what it's worth, after 166K miles, both my oil and coolant sit in the middle of the dials... So that's 90 and 120, or he other way around. Always have done, always will do.
    #40

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