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S4 problems starting when warm

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by SonicDeathmonkey, Dec 16, 2009.

  1. SonicDeathmonkey
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    SonicDeathmonkey Member

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    [Dec 16, 2009]
    So the car has started having problems starting when warm. Don't know when it started as I hardly ever start the car warm, unless putting fuel in. Drive to train station, drive home.

    When cold, it starts instantly. When warm, the engine needs to turn over several times before it catches, then when pulling away, the revs seem eratic

    Any ideas? Car is services every 10K. Last service not so long ago...
    #1
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  3. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 16, 2009]
    Faulty CTS?
    #2
  4. SonicDeathmonkey
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    SonicDeathmonkey Member

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    [Dec 16, 2009]
    CTS being? not familiar with the acronym
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  5. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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  6. SonicDeathmonkey
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    SonicDeathmonkey Member

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    [Dec 16, 2009]
    Really. Not being very "spannered-up", how would the coolant temp effect warm starting?

    Is it much to swap out? The car is going in for an MOT in the next few weeks.

    Would it report in VAGCOM?
    #5
  7. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 16, 2009]
    Vagcom would probably show implausible signal.

    Basicly if the ECU thinks the engine is always cold, it will apply the "choke" everytime you start the car. The part is a simple DIY and costs around £20
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  8. SonicDeathmonkey
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    SonicDeathmonkey Member

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    [Dec 16, 2009]
    I will have to see if I can get vagcom to run on my new windows 7 laptop!
    #7
  9. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Dec 16, 2009]
    definately take it to the dealer or a "specialist", hardly like asking on here is going to fix it for you.
    #8
  10. SonicDeathmonkey
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    SonicDeathmonkey Member

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    [Dec 17, 2009]
    Oh I don't know. People on this forum tend to provide the answer to most problems. If it's not too difficult, I can swap out the CTS myself. If only I knew where it is...
    #9
  11. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Dec 17, 2009]
    changing a cts is a waste of time unless you know its not working

    youll need to plug the car into vagcom to see if its a reported fault or find a table of resistance values for your sender and get your multi meter out to test it

    otherwise youre still wasting your time
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  12. SonicDeathmonkey
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    SonicDeathmonkey Member

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    [Dec 17, 2009]
    I'll have to get vagcom working on windows 7 then, see if it reports any issues.
    #11
  13. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Dec 17, 2009]
    yup, if you get that going, it will tell you if the sensor is dead

    you could also be in a situation where the sensor is reporting duff info, so check vagcom to see if its reporting plausible info back to the ecu
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  14. SonicDeathmonkey
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    SonicDeathmonkey Member

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    [Dec 17, 2009]
    Clearly, this forum is the font of all knowlegde...

    VAG-COM Version: Release 311.2-N

    Control Module Part Number: 8D0 907 551 C
    Component and/or Version: 2.7l V6/5VT 0002
    Software Coding: 05611
    Work Shop Code: WSC 00482
    2 Faults Found:
    18030 - Engine Coolant Temp Signal: Implausible Signal
    P1622 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
    16502 - Engine Coolant Temp. Sensor (G62): Signal too High
    P0118 - 35-00 - -


    On another note, windows 7 was a piece of piss. Vista was not. Strange. Windows 7 is vista, really...
    #13
  15. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Dec 17, 2009]
    is that what vagcom got off your car?
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  16. SonicDeathmonkey
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    SonicDeathmonkey Member

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    [Dec 17, 2009]
    Yep. Just plugged it in, set the COM port up (serial com port drivers auto installed) and auto-scanned the whole lot.

    VagCom, when you positively, definately have to detect every fault in your ECU, accept no substitute...
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  17. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Dec 17, 2009]
    fantastic.

    right, clear the code, start the car, get it upto temp, use the measuring blocks to see if the sensor is giving a plausible figure... ie when the car is up to temp the sensor should be showing c.90* to the ecu

    if its not, check its plugged in properly blah blah blah and after that it might be time to start looking into getting it replaced
    #16
  18. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 17, 2009]
    Craigs had a weird intermittant fault, and we replaced the 6" of wiring loom at the top of the sensor, and replaced the sensor. Seems to have cured it, touch wood.

    Matt: Whats with all the "take it to a dealer, no-one on here will help you" cr*p? There are only so many things that would cause warm start issues, and a faulty CTS is probably the most common...
    #17
  19. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Dec 17, 2009]
    aragorn, are you going to correct your "quote" there?

    listing parts to replace using abreviations to a guy who admits isnt "spannered up" isnt really helping at all. randomly replacing parts before you actually figure out whats broken is also not helping anyone in the slightest.

    ive already said this a few posts up, but judging by what you "quoted" youve not actually read the thread anyway
    #18
  20. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 17, 2009]

    So were we right or not?:moa:

    Oh look we were !!
    :p
    Sorry SDM if we wern't any help.

    I suppose this is when i should say take it to MRC for a health check too...:keule:

    Matt, it's a common failiure on the VAG range, causing just this kind of fault. Not all of the time VAGcom will tell you everything, it needs some common sense.
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2009
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  21. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Dec 17, 2009]
    Mark, it was a lucky guess. with golf stuff, people on the boards bang on and on about ecu temp senders when in reality its not hard to test if its working on not

    and testing the sender is lot cheaper than crossing your fingers and replacing it.

    in fact, in my experience, ive found more "temp sender issues" to be a wiring issues rather than the sender itself.
    #20
  22. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 17, 2009]
    Lucky guess, er no. Experience.

    At no point did we tell him to randomly replace items on his car, we suggested the sensor alone as 99.9% of the time it's that at fault, and at £20 it's worth a punt. Anything other than that will take some tracking down.

    SDM has already admitted not being "up there" with spannering skills and more than likely doesn't have the gear to test the sensor anyway, so seeing as the CTS is easy to change as a DIY it's about as far as we would have suggested him go.

    In you golf experience you have been unlucky then with the wiring, must be sub standard in the older Golfs or something
    #21
  23. SonicDeathmonkey
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    SonicDeathmonkey Member

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    [Dec 17, 2009]
    I am going to change the sensor, for what it's worth. Car is going in to have the rear diff replaced, so it's no skin off my nose.

    Cheers for all the help!
    #22
  24. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    [Dec 17, 2009]
    horray for vagcom and good luck with teh DIYing SDM

    when you start saying parts without even suggesting any diagnosis at all.

    people moan enough when dealers start changing parts willy nilly and then charging for the privelege even when it doesnt fix it... the point of diy is to get it done properly.

    why waste time changing bits before you know its dead? if that sums up your experience or the level of tech support/experience on the board then thats bad.

    if a spannering newbie gets advised to change this or that and nothing is resolved because no one actually did any diagnosis to start with, what do you recon that does for their confidence?

    ive always had a bad opinion of the "advice" given out on audi and specifically later vag car boards and this just confirms it really.

    will take some time to track down, some time compared to what? compared to a trip to the dealer, ages for them to find the part no, a couple days for it to be ordered in and then you have to go collect it and fit it.

    if you dont have the gear to test a faulty sensor, then the gear (a multi meter) can be bought for £5. thats £15 less than £20 and has many many other uses. if you buy a new sensor to replace a working sensor, then two working sensors are no use to you at all.

    so your answer is complete rubbish and no help to the guy at all.
    #23
  25. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 17, 2009]
    Right, i suggest you leave you attitude you bring to most posts back at home. The guy came on here looking for help or an opinion, we gave him one. Simples.

    It's not like we told him he had to remove his engine to do it. Also he is happy with the said advice so i don't know what you problem is, but take it elsewhere, it's not appreciated, wanted, or warrented.
    #24
  26. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 17, 2009]
    PS the diagnosis was already done by the engine failing to start when warm.
    #25
  27. ALPINE
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    ALPINE Yes its diesel, now cry u lost

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    [Dec 17, 2009]
    funny, from the time i been on here i have seen Byzan`s knowlege help alot of people with no come backs. As have i seen alot of others help fellow owners. I find you very arogant to come on to a forum where alot of us have known each other for a very long time giving it all the beans,. Congrats on having knowlege of other VAG cars as well as Audis. But knowlege is Feck all without experience. Its all very well going by the book and picking at everyone elses remarks but this forum was running smoothly along time before you arrived pal!
    Take a step back and join the forum insted of trying to run it!
    :end_of_discction:
    #26
  28. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 17, 2009]
    Matt, it would appear that your argument over Mark's ability to diagnose a problem based on his experience is a little 'Implausible'...

    If every question or request for help on a forum is greeted with "definately take it to the dealer or a "specialist", hardly like asking on here is going to fix it for you." (poor english aside) then there wouldn't but much point in having a forum would there...

    Granted the generic response tends to be "VAGCOM" as a start point these days and thankfully SDM (spannerly challenged or not) has a copy and was able to backup Mark's (experience based) suggestion. If not I am sure another member would have stepped up to the plate and offered his (or her) services... CTS issues are common on VAG group cars...

    No need to suggest diagnosis if you are confident in your experience... all sounds plausible to me...

    My 37p's worth... (damn that inflation!!)

    <tuffty/>
    #27
  29. SonicDeathmonkey
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    SonicDeathmonkey Member

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    [Dec 17, 2009]
    Oh, hold on a second now!!!! You can't say "simples" in any thread I started. I work for Confused.com and that bloody meerkat is a pain in the arse!
    #28
  30. SonicDeathmonkey
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    SonicDeathmonkey Member

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    [Dec 17, 2009]
    When I said I am not all that spannered up, I should have said that back in t the day, I've changed engines, gearboxes etc, but these days I simply do not have the time, so have not done anything other than change the MAF and top the oil up.

    However, I know enough to listen to what appears to be sound advice. That's typilcally what I get on this site, and that says a lot about the members.

    In my experience, this forum is flame-free. Lets keep it that way, helping each other, as opposed to being bell-ends, which helps no one.

    Just my 39p worth. Bloody inflation!
    #29
  31. ALPINE
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    ALPINE Yes its diesel, now cry u lost

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    [Dec 17, 2009]
    excuse me SDM and tuffty..... its 40ps worth.. dont forget the tax on tax on tax these days.

    dont people know nothing on this forum. tuts...:jester:

    :undwech:
    #30
  32. SonicDeathmonkey
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    SonicDeathmonkey Member

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    [Dec 18, 2009]
    #31
  33. tufftee
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    tufftee New Member

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    [Jan 23, 2010]
    Hi guys been reading this with interest! As i have a similer prob with my 97 2.6 V6
    Just that it starts fine but idles at between 1200 and 1500 RPM and surges
    before xmas it was fine it was parked up during the cold spell and started as the cold spell ended
    and started doing the above?
    #32
  34. SonicDeathmonkey
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    SonicDeathmonkey Member

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    [Jan 24, 2010]
    A new CTS fixed all my problems for £20 quid or whatever it cost. Hope this helps.
    #33
  35. tufftee
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    tufftee New Member

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    [Jan 29, 2010]
    Hi all well i replaced my blue cts with an aftermarket one which was green !
    that the local parts distributer sent out saying that was the correct part
    and the engine is still idalling irratically and is very jerky whilst accellerating and decellerating
    could this cts be at fault too? or is there possibly another problem?
    cheers Nev..
    #34
  36. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 29, 2010]
    What does Vagcom say?
    #35
  37. tufftee
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    tufftee New Member

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    [Jan 29, 2010]
    Thanks but as i only got the car in december i have'nt got one yet
    #36

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