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S4 brakes on tracks - actually the ring

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B8 Chassis)' started by LDoR, Jun 27, 2012.

  1. LDoR
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    LDoR likes his V6

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    [Jun 27, 2012]
    I'm heading to the ring in August on a stag do (thats my kind of stag do) but i've seen some footage from an S4 on the ring complaining of brake fade after only a short portion of the lap.

    So my question, has anybody else been to the ring in an S4, if so how where the brakes.

    Has anybody done any mods to deal with brake fade, i would imagine that some braided hoses, pads and fluid upgrade would be the thing to do, if so any products that you would recommend? S4 is a 2009 model, not sure if fluid was ever changed but can find out from garage.

    Many thanks
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  3. Joedesi
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    Joedesi New Member

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    [Jun 27, 2012]
    Would like to know this as well. Good luck with the Ring.
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  4. Just Plain Old
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    Just Plain Old Active Member

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    [Jun 27, 2012]
    I did the ring in my ols S4 which i put RS6 Brakes, fluid hoses etc on, and it worked very well.

    For sure the standard brakes on the B8 are ****, and would be useless on the ring. I've had the RS5 brake set up on this one (the RS6 wouldn't fit very easily) For sure it is a massive improvement, but they do tend to overheat still.......

    I used these guys APS | Independent Specialist | Audi | Volkswagen | Porsche
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  5. LDoR
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    LDoR likes his V6

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    [Jun 29, 2012]
    How much did the RS5 brakes cope, i don't really want to go the whole hog and change the brake setup, just strengthen to give myself a bit more confidence
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  6. Just Plain Old
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    Just Plain Old Active Member

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    [Jun 29, 2012]
    The RS5 set up was much better, I don't think tweeking the standard brakes will do much for you, but I'm no expert, just my experience that's all...... Give the APS guys a call, they will give you the best advice.
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  7. scoTTy
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    scoTTy Active Member

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    [Jun 30, 2012]
    Have I got this right? You've never been before and you're pondering changing the brakes for it?

    I went with a guy who spent £8k on brakes for the Jag XKR to go to the 'ring. He put it into the barriers at the start of Hatzenbach...on his first lap!

    Oh he did say "I can take it flat on Playstation!" Doh!!

    I've loads of laps in my old TT and B6 S4 on standard brakes (and only one on my m/bike <blush>). When pushing on then they can start going off which is only an issue if you're doing lap after lap. Most people do a lap or two and have a breather. Then again until you learn it you probably won't be going that hard at it .... errm actually you might! Loads of newbies gets to bends and coz many are blind and they don't know there way around, they massively over brake. I guess as you learn it you become less agressive on the brakes. I've never had massive fade there ... as opposed to Snetterton where they totally gave up.

    Many people ***** loads of dosh on a BBK, don't do anything about the rears (hence your brake balance is not good) but are happy coz they look nice and you can indeed make repeated deep braking without fade coming on. I think many do it for forum/pub bragging rights and coz they look pretty though ;)

    I've done loads of track days with people in the same models of cars (but with them having BBKs fitted) and they've not got away from me....although that was generally coz they were using the ability to brake so hard and deep that the car's weren't balanced on turn in and hence my car would go in more composed and come out quicker.

    Ultimately it's your money so spend it how you please. I guess all I'm saying is it's not a requirement.
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  8. Gops
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    Gops 6th gear @7000rpm

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    [Jul 1, 2012]
    Can't you get some ds3000 pads for the s4? Some hoses and good motul fluid? That should help with fade!
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  9. LDoR
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    LDoR likes his V6

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    [Jul 2, 2012]
    scoTTY,

    I fully appreciate that i won't be going flat out on the ring on my first visit, i plan on treating it like a one way country road. The only reason i want to strengthen the braking is that i have heard and seen S4s suffer with brake fade after only a few corners of heavy braking on that track, i imagine i will be doing a lot of heavy breaking given its my first lap. I think having brakes you can depend on will be more important than track day insurance, i don't want to be stuffing it into a wall just because my brakes can't cope with my nervous driving.

    Gops, i used Ds2500 on my old LCR, these are not to track focused are they? Have you heard of any hoses for the S4?
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  10. scoTTy
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    scoTTy Active Member

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    [Jul 2, 2012]
    I see that. If the money's there then why not ..... but if it is then make sure you have insurance. In fact, do you have road insurance? Of course you do. I'm not sure why people think they can drive the 'ring without it. It's a public road and the Police will nick you.

    There's lots of stories about insurance companies having to insure you at least 3rd party (legal minimum) but some are then sueing people to get the money back as if it's excluded then you're in breach of contract.
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  11. Scuffers
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    Scuffers New Member

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    [Jul 8, 2012]
    that's not going to help, the disks are just not up to it.

    realistically, it's a 1,750+Kg's car +you etc, that takes a lot of stopping, and the std disks are just not big enough to shed that kind of load.
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  12. LDoR
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    LDoR likes his V6

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    [Jul 14, 2012]
    Ahh, so you are saying is the disks are the weak point, makes sense now. Thing is, so long as the tiny brakes don't fade I'll be happy. I can work around brakes that aren't that powerful, so long as they are consistent.
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  13. Scuffers
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    Scuffers New Member

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    [Jul 24, 2012]
    not sure your understanding this...

    brakes work by turning kinetic energy into heat - the more weight, the more heat, more speed (to scrub off), more heat.

    on a track, your use of the brakes is WAY higher in both load and frequency, thus not only are you putting more energy into the brakes (heat) you also are giving them less time to shed said heat (before you use them again).

    Brake fade is a symptom of the pad/disk overheating and it's resulting friction being less than it was, this is a bad thing because usually when you get to this point, the disks are way outside their operating window and can lead to catastroipc failure, as well as the callipers overheating and eventually leading to fluid boil (no brakes).

    changing pads to 'racing' ones (be it carbon metatic or ceramic) can delay the callipers overheating, but will do nothing for the disks, you still have X amount of energy to dissipate.

    basically, you need MUCH bigger disks and some decent venting to them, 1,750+Kg's is a lot to deal with, and if you consider that you need to be able to deal with 90+% of the engines output with the brakes, it kind of put's it into perspective...
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  14. LDoR
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    LDoR likes his V6

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    [Jul 26, 2012]
    Thanks Scuffers, i totally understand what you are saying.

    I'll have my brakes checked for wear before i go and find out when the fluid was last changed etc, but i'm not going to upgrade the brakes. I'm going to treat the track like a country road.

    The only reason i was considering the brakes as i said was that i didn't want to get into a situation where i crashed because my brakes had gone off - and i have heard reports of brake fade very early on these cars.

    Thanks for explaining it all to me.
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  15. Scuffers
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    Scuffers New Member

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    [Jul 29, 2012]
    Main things to remember,

    1) brake fluid degrades with age, the service schedule is something like 24 months, but if in doubt, change it (costs sod all and takes minutes).
    2) brake early and not hard, this will give them a chance to shed the heat over a reasonable time, last minute hard stops is what will kill them, also, do not stop, let them cool down at reasonable speed before stopping, and DO NOT park with the handbrake on.
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  16. scoTTy
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    scoTTy Active Member

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    [Jul 29, 2012]
    Totally agree .... except factory filled brake fluid (I guess by vacuum or something) is three years now.
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