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S4 B6 heated, full power saloon recaros into A4 B6 avant

Discussion in 'A4/A4 cabriolet/S4 forum(B6 chassis)' started by fourcircle, Nov 7, 2011.

  1. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    james - delete the other related "panic" threads from the last couple of days please.
    This will be my guide to installing full powered, heated seats into a car with only electric lumbar function. I'll have plenty of questions throughout but hopefully all will work out in the end.

    For starters I bought a set of S4 recaros from a breaker. They arrived looking pretty sad from storage in a lock up and some kind of white dust over them and well ingrained into the driver's seat. Looks like it might have been used for someone to sit in while at the lock up. effing basserds. but anyway.... much of this will is and will take place in a dark, cold carpark as my garage isn't big enough to work with the doors open. I'd really recommend you give yourself plenty of time in a large, dry, warm garage if you're going to do the same.

    I'm also changing some plastics as I do this so your install may not be as messy. First up I removed my centre console, which i'm swapping anyway. the process for this is detailed in a couple of RNS-E/double din conversion threads on asn if you need it. So head unit out, climate control unit out, pop the gear stick surround off, rear ashtray off, top trim above cup holder out. then two 13mm bolts from under the rear ash tray and a load of 8mm bolts from around the head unit and front ashtray areas.

    [​IMG]


    If you need to remove the handbrake cover you need to slide a thin flat headed screwdriver down underneath the hard plastic and pull the metal clasp away from the handbrake lever to allow you to pull/wiggle the leather grip off. It's on there tight but keep pulling and wiggling sid eto side and it will come off.
    Then, the hard plastic cover itself has two metal spring clasps at each side within that you need to lever away from the metal studs on the handbrake lever itself. gently pull that plastic cover as you work at each side and it should come off easily enough.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Glovebox also needs to come out so that's three 8mm bolts from inside the glovebox at the top edge and 2 from underneath. don't let it drop and remember to unplug the electrics before taking the whole thing away somewhere safe.
    Also take out the shelf from under the steering column. pop the dash end cap/fusebox cover off. there's small recess at the bottom for a flat screwdriver or similar. Then there's one 8mm bolt within that space beside the fuses and two 8mm bolts from underneath. that done you need to grip the whole shelf and pull it towards you (if sitting in the driver's seat). Unclip the diagnostics plug and remove the shelf from the car.

    disconnect the battery under the bonnet.
    Now begind the wiring of the kufatec loom if your old seats aren't heated. there's a main loom and a single red & white wire. The plugs will obviously go under the seats so start with the opposite end as per Kufatec's instructions.

    Connector F (6-pole) as well as C are located behind the climate control and already exist in the car’s
    loom.
    (that's the big, heavy one on the right side of the climate control unit)
    Grey wire with yellow tull - Connector F 1 (just push the female connector into position 1, which is marked on the connector itself. look closely to see the numbering)
    Grey-wire without tull - Connector F 2
    Red/White - Connector F 3
    [​IMG]

    Violet - Connector C5
    (C is the small mustard looking connector. You need to carefully cut the small cable tie that's holding the wiring in place, pull back the hinged plastic flap at the back, then slide the whole "innards" out of the shell. the numbering is very faint but should read 1 to 8 on one side and 9 to 16 on the other I think. push the new pins into place, slide the "ina´nards" into the shell again, fold over the end flap and put another small cable tie in place)
    Yellow - Connector C6
    [​IMG]

    Red/white will be connected to Terminal 30 (permanent plus) and the other end will be inserted into the fuse box of the car (Fuse number 44). The other red/white connector of the wiring will be inserted into the other free slot of the fuse box.
    right, in english that means feed the red&white wire and the brown wire with the ring on the end behind the steering column and make sure the wires aren't going to snag anywhere.
    [​IMG]
    I think the loom is designed for a LHD car and as a result I found these 2 wires didn't have much extra to play with if the main bulk of the wiring was to run down the passenger's side of the transmission tunnel (under the centre console). I fed these wires quite high behind the clocks to keep them away from the moving steering column itself.

    Open the back of the fusebox.
    [​IMG]

    identify position 44 from the diagram on the inside of the fusebox lid. so that's bottom left looking from the open door or bottom right from the perspective of a very small man sitting cross legged in the driver's footwell. You need to slide the purple plastic thingy down to allow you to push the pin of the red&white wire into one of the two empty slots of fuse position 44.
    [​IMG]

    Now take the lonely little red & white wire
    [​IMG]

    .......and push the pin end into the other empty slot of fuse position 44 and slide the purple thingy back up into place.
    [​IMG]

    The ring connector of the red & white wire should be attached to one of the three 10mm bolts that make up a bar of three, all with heavy red wires attached. This is terminal 30 - permanent live. make sure the connections are all solid when you put the nuts back.
    [​IMG]

    Brown - Ground point close to A-Column
    You can now attach the ring connector of the brown wire to the earth point with other brown wires coming from it. again, it's a 10mm nut.
    [​IMG]

    Last, while you're here remove the 10amp red blade fuse that's pictured here beside the 2 silver thermal fuses. replace it with a 30amp. that's the power fuse for your seat movement. 10 amp was Ok for electric lumbar support but not the full functions of a recaro seat.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The fuse for the passenger's side is located behind the kick plate in the passenger's footwell. lever off the long plastic trim that runs from seat to glovebox along the floor, starting at the end nearest the seat.
    [​IMG]

    Under the large part you'll see a few electrical connectors and a lonely little red 10 amp blade fuse. change it for a 30amp and put the plastic trim back again.
    [​IMG]



    Before removing the front seats undo the seatbelts. There's a plastic flap at each side that pulls up vertically. Underneath you'll find where the seatbelt end clips onto a fat pin. lever the metal flap away from the seat and push that whole seatbelt end downwards. when it gies down far enough it will come off the pin. then your seatbelt end if free. Pic here shows the metal end unclipped
    [​IMG]

    To remove the front seats slide them all the way back, lift the black plastic flap that covers the electrical plugs underneath (it hinges at the end that's farthest from the front of the car) and unplug the 2 connectors.
    [​IMG]

    Now take a couple of small flat bladed screwdrivers or something cleverer and pull out the plastic studs that hold the runner covers in place.
    [​IMG]

    The runner covers will now slide out towards the front of the car.
    [​IMG]

    Use a 12 pointed spline to remove the front bolts holding the runners to the car.
    [​IMG]

    I think a standard 6 pointed torx will also do it if you don't have splines. Slide the seats forward and repeat for the rear of the runners. note that there's also a small torx screw at each side at the rear to remove.
    [​IMG]

    slide the runner covers off and undo the spline bolts. slide the seat forward a fraction, use the manual winder to lean the seat back all the way forward and this will make it easier to lift out from the car. remove the 2 front seats.

    Now you can run the main lump of the kufatec loom down the side of the transmission tunnel. lever open the plastic flaps and clip them back into place as you do this. when you're level with the handbrake lever you can run the longer piece over the top and to a position that will be under the driver's seat. the shorter section will go under the passenger's seat.

    Lift your new seats into place. note that they're heavy mother fuggers and you might want to get someone to help (if you're not doing it yourself on a cold, dark night in a carpark in northern finland where people have more sense than to come anywhere near a man dismantling his car). The wiring is quite happy under the runners as when bolted down there isn't enough pressure to damage the wiring (disclaimer - this is my own opinion. Feel free to run the wiring under the floor or feed it above the runners in a way that it won't snag if you prefer).

    Connect the wiring before you bolt the seat down as there's not much room under there. 2 plugs are the same as your old seat and the 3rd of course connects to your new kufatec plug. I managed to squeeze my kufatec plug down the side of the recessed floor panel thing and ran the additional wire over the top of the plastic clip that holds the main loom in place. with a bit of poking and on one side a bit of plastic chopped off the covers fitted back into place.
    (pic to follow)

    Now get your runners into position. there's stud near the back of each runner that fits into a hole in the floor so that all 4 bolt holes will line up. whether you tighten the front or back first will depend on where the seat was when it was disconnected from the donor car. bolt all your bolts down tight. i've no idea what torque to use. I just used the "very tight but without stripping the heads" on my own personal scale. I found that the runners are a different shape on the recaros so my old plastic runner covers won't fit. One more thing to add to the list of "small bits that weren't on the pallet but need to be found by the seller".

    Front seats in and looking good. the joy of a warm arse on a cold morning should not be underestimated at all. Neither should the lumbar support and general feel of being hugged by these leathery beasties :)
    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2011
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  2. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    First part updated with photos.

    And so on to the rear seats....
    ...where I hit 2 snags almost straight away

    just grab the back bench and lift up. it will come out very easily. as has been said before it's possibly the only thing in the a4 that comes off easily
    [​IMG]

    fold both seats forward and slide the load cover a few inches to the driver's side and it will come off the brackets
    [​IMG]

    close up of load cover brackets. This is my first issue. these brackets are recessed into the existing double seat but the new seats came from a saloon and so the back panel is totally flat. I have no idea if I can cut a recess or can surface mount them instead? I'd appreciate any thoughts on this. The more I think about it the more I think surface mounting these brackets would be relitavely simple and just leave me with a few mm gap when compared to the original flush fitting. I may drill a pilot hole in the new seat back to see if there's a second metal panel that would let me cut a recess and still have metal to attach the brackets to.
    [​IMG]

    And the second snag...
    the metal.. what do I call them... studs? that the rear folding seats lock onto.. they are held on by 17mm nuts. you may be lucky enough to remove yours by cracking the tension off with an allen key on the end of the stud but mine are kind of rounded off by some previous owner I assume. I managed to get one side off with a banana ring ended 17mm spanner but deep sockets won't reach over the end of the stud to get to the nut. today I picked up a cheap 17mm spark plug socket thingy (pic to follow) that will let me get the other side off though when I have time to keep going with the mods.
    [​IMG]

    It looks like aI'll need to remove the plastic trims from each side of the luggage cover to then remove the side bolsters. I have no idea yet how the folding back seats are fixed on though. if it's anything like an S2/audi coupe when I remove the side bolsters I will have access to very tight allen headed bolts, which when removed will allow me to unhitch the pins/studs that hold both back sections onto a central(ish) bracket. Any thoughts on this would also be appreciated.

    Hey, at least it isn't 2 degrees outside with snow due any time now.. eh? it is? ah right. ah **** it. I have seated front seats now so all good :)
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2011
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  3. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    OK, so a 17mm deep spark plug socket is the best way to go. it looks like 6 inches of metal tube, flattened out to fit a 17mm nut at one end and with a bar on the other. I'm sure I have a photo of it but i'm buggered if I can find it.

    So to remove the back seats first lift out the rear bench.. simple. Underneath at each side you'll find the bottom bracket for the side bolsters held on with a 10mm bolt. remove those and put them somewhere safe.
    [​IMG]

    At the top end, after you have removed the bar/bracket at each side (the 17mm nut I had issues with) you can pull the bottom of each bolster out and pull down to remove.

    Now remove the seat belt that's part of the larger seat back. it's a large bolt, maybe a 17mm again.
    [​IMG]

    Fold down both rear seat backs. In the middle, where they join together and hinge you'll see this plastic cover.
    [​IMG]

    grab it at the furthest backward point and pull up. It hooks over the front end so unhook it and set it aside. Underneath you'll see this
    [​IMG]

    Take a T30 and remove the single bolt. that metal bracket also removed by pulling up at the rear end and unhook at the front end. When that's off you'll see this
    [​IMG]

    In the middle the pins hook into that metal bracket. grab one of the seat backs and pull it up near the pivot/hinge. When that comes out you'll find the other side (nearest the door) is held on by a long pin going into the corresponding hole in the seat as below. It will take a hard tug and a bit of wiggling to get it free
    [​IMG]

    Do the same for the other side. You should now have both seat backs out and you can put the new seat backs in. Obviously you just get the outsides on first and then the inner sides. When they're in hook on the metal hook part of the bracket and put the t30 back in. Then the plastic bit. Then the side bolsters. get the top end up in first and then get the 10mm bolts in. Get the top pin things back in (that the seats lock into when pushed back). I found that I had to do a bit of adjusting with the 17mm nuts and allen head pins to get them in the right place.
    [​IMG]

    And then the monumental pain in the ass... the brackets for the luggage/boot cover. I drilled a small hole and poked about to check but there's no second inner metal skin to screw those brackets into. So I decided the best temporary solution was to surface mount them. So I measured up the positions of the brackets on the old seats and then drilled and screwed them onto the back of the new seat back.
    [​IMG]

    It was difficult to get the load cover mounted onto those brackets properly but I got there eventually. It's secure but there's a bit of gap between the load cover and the seat backs.
    [​IMG]

    I'll leave it like that temporarily and think about how to fix it in the future. counter sinking those brackets somehow would be the solution but I don't know how that can be achieved.

    Next.. door cards...
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2011
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  4. jbcalvin
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    jbcalvin Member

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    Fourcircle,

    I am absolutely loving this write-up and several comments have already made me burst out laughing.....

    If I ever have enough money/manage to find one in the UK (and it would have to be an avant rather than try to bodge a saloon rear seat) this will come in handy.....

    major kudos for doing this outside at the start of Finnish winter as well.....
    #4
  5. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    glad to see i'm not preaching to myself mate :) it's been very quiet so I thought maybe nobody gave a toss... but anyway...

    My good mood has dropped a bit now. looks like the vertical lift of my new driver's seat isn't working. the motor is turning but there's a nasty grinding sound that suggests to me that the teeth of a cog or rack & pinion somewhere within are knackered. ****. I didn't even notice until my missus went to drive for a bit yesterday on a long jaunt and she tried to lift it up (I'd only lifted and lowered the front section under my thighs) and it made a nasty noise. I've unbolted it from the floor now and tipped it back but there's not much to see. I can see that the motor is turning from the centre of the opposite end to the working gubbins. But it's not catching whatever it's supposed to catch at the other end. ****ing ****y **** **** :(
    #5
  6. marktdisport
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    marktdisport Active Member

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    nice job there fella sorry to hear you have probs after lots of hours put in to it....
    #6
  7. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    thanks mate. definitely pisses me off but I just spoke to the seller and I don't think he knews about it. he's asked me to find out if I can get it repaired locally. i'm scared what kind of price that might be but if he pays it that's all good. I'll need to email my local audi delaer to see if they are aware of this issue and can give me a price to fix it. I'd really like to be able to do it myself but i'm reluctant to start pulling bits apart myself.... although that hasn't really stopped me before :)
    #7
  8. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    right... so the good news is it's possible to fix this problem.
    It's not the motor but the "gearbox" mechanism that it's attched to. well.. in my case anyway. I bought this eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace although I should point out that ETKA lits the seat base as without motor. whether the part bought from the dealer will have the gearbox bit I don't know. I'll double check the old part in case there's a separate part number on it but I don't think so. seat base is part number 8E0 881 158.
    I removed my seat and laid it on its back in my garage to get access from below. I could have taken the 24mm nut and two torx head bolts out in that position but the inner side of the 24mm nut is a thick torx headed bolt and there isn't enough room to slide it out unless your seat has broken while at its highest.
    [​IMG]

    If it's just your motor that's broken then you can detach it from the gearbox by undoing the two very small trox headed bolts you can see by looking down the length of the motor. To get the motor out from the seat base you can unclip the electric connectors just inside the plastic trim (behind teh switches). that will give you enough space to slide it out and the new one in again. remember to unclip the electrical connector by cutting away the tape and then push the connectortowards the back of the seat.
    [​IMG]

    So anyway, to get proper access I had to undo two torx bolts holding the horizontal bar that has a motor mounted on it for operating the forward and back movement of the seat along the runners. I also had to undo the large bolt that forms the pivot for the front part of the up and down lift mechanism. see these pictures for what I mean
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    the runner at that side can now be gently pulled away a bit, which will bring the gearbox part away from the underside of the seat so you can slide the thick bolt out. This will leave you free to lift out the gearbox and the metal plate it's attached to. When i did this I accidentally unclipped the rod that operates the forward-backwards runner but it clips back again into the motor at one end and the mechanism at the other end.
    [​IMG]

    Get the new gearbox thingy in place, put the thick bolt back through and tighten on the 24mm nut at the other side. Now get the three bolts back in again that allowed you to drop the runner down. that took me a bit of jiggling to get things lined up.
    It may be possible to put all this back in place with the new motor still attached to the gearbox but I had the motor off already so I did this and then slid the new motor in, inserted the two small torx bolts holding it onto the gearbox and put the electrical connector back in place.

    It's worth mentioning that if/when you disconnect the motor from the gearbox there's a piece that fits into the geabox in the form of a metal "screw" (the thread of the screw turns against the teeth of the mechanism to create the movement). The other end is a flexible bar that inserts into the motor. I removed mine while working out what went wrong with the old one and realised that the end of the screw needs to be engaged in the mech before the motor is attched. if you take it out then make sure to put it back in, turn by hand clockwise until the screw appears to be physically moving down into the gearbox and adjust back and forward until the plastic edge is flush to the end. that will make sense if you find yourself doing this. otherwise.. probably not. the screw wouldn't catch in the broken gearbox, suggesting to me that the problem lies within it.

    new gearbox and motor connected, seat back into car and Robert's your mother's sibling... all should be well again. It was for me. :)
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  9. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    And I changed the door cards too. In the snow in minus 3 or 4 or something. Real men do mods in minus temperatures. grrrrr.... ahem. yeah. so anyway...
    I definitely needed the spare plastic poppers. It feels quite unatural to rip the things off but you just have to go for it. Most of mine split in two with one part staying in the door and having to be dug out with a small screwdriver before I tried to fit the new ones.
    [​IMG]

    As is mentioned in other places you just pull the edge of the thin trim piece (in my case piano black) out at the end nearest the car, work your way along unpopping the studs and then the far end unhooks from the doorcard. there will be 4 or 5 screws behind this depending on if it's a front or back door. Then one screw under the door handles of back and passenger doors. for the driver's door there's an oval plastic piece that needs to be popped out and there are 2 screws behind it.
    [​IMG]

    With the screws out you work your way round the edge of the door card and pull the bugg3r off, snapping a few plastic poppers in the process. Unclip the electrical connectors and door lock release cable. New door card and new poppers, door cards back on (remember the electrical connectors and door release cable)... start at the top, hook the plastic over the edge nearest the window, get the small white poppers in place at each end and work your way round pushing all other poppers in. Then the screws and the trim, starting at the outside edge and working in.

    I still have a few grey pieces of plastic that I need to change for black but it looks OK for now. The main thing is the seats move as required and my arse is hot on cold days. Pictues to follow if I can get them taken in the 5 minutes of daylight we're getting these days
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  10. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    Oh yeah, interesting to note that the rear OEM window blinds are different for avant and saloon. so mine don't fit properly when pulled up. I don't want to pay £200 each to get avant ones but if anyone comes across some poor chap with avant blinds in his saloon send him my way so we can swap :)
    #10
  11. chasdrury
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    chasdrury Member

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    I have exactly this problem with my electric recaro seat!

    Did you replace the base and the motor, then? DO you have a part number for the gearbox / motor portion as well as the base that you listed already?

    Thanks
    Chas

    #11
  12. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    I just changed the motor and gearbox bit as seen here (the silver bits, not black or white plastic), not the whole base. I'll recheck the gearbox bit again to see if I can find a separate part number on it and come back to you matey


    [​IMG]
    #12
  13. chasdrury
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    chasdrury Member

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    Thanks - seems you can buy the gearbox and motor from Audi - your link has no more complete bases. The whole base I think is £324 but the motor and gearbox I am led to beleive is around £120 - much more palettable.

    #13
  14. chasdrury
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    chasdrury Member

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    Well... new motor and gearbox is in.. moment of truth when i take the seat back to car. God they are heavy these recaros....
    #14
  15. chasdrury
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    chasdrury Member

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    Worked a treat! thanks fourcircle!
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  16. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    You're welcome mate. Glad it helped. They're heavy big b*stards aren't they? :)
    #16
  17. chasdrury
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    chasdrury Member

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    That's the understatement of the year!
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  18. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    haha. yeah. I vividly the recall the "oooohya****in*******getinthere!" as I tried not to take paint off anywhere round the doors. Now just relax and enjoy the functioning motor... ahhhh... :)
    #18
  19. Inertiauk
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    Inertiauk Member

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    Just think how much performance would be gained swapping them out for a milk crate in an s4 lol.
    #19
  20. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    you shouldn't slum it in an a4 though. a plastic ikea chair would do nicely :)
    #20
  21. jbcalvin
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    jbcalvin Member

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    Managed to get a bargain deal on a set of full electric RS4 comfort front seats only, so will be getting round to finally doing this conversion shortly…...

    Once they are in, will just get my rears trimmed to match the new leather colour…..

    Will update if I have anything extra to add as usual….
    #21

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