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S3,Power at wheels ???

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by craig_007, Jun 7, 2007.

  1. craig_007
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    craig_007 Member

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    [Jun 7, 2007]
    Hi all,
    Been reading through various posts as I'm looking to try and get more power from my S3,Anyway apon reading I noticed that a few others on here were looking at producing 200 bhp at the wheels,I thought that seemed good enough,so I went and pulled my dyno plot out and it turns out my car is already producing 213 bhp at the wheels ???!!!
    I have no idea how to post the dyno plot up or I would do .
    The car has been mapped by Jim at star performance and from what I have read his rollers are suppose to be quite accurate.Here are the rest of the figures...
    P-Norm 260 bhp
    P-Eng 261 bhp
    P-Wheel 213 bhp
    P-Drag 48 bhp
    Torque 263 lbf-ft
    Just curious,do these figures appear realistic ???
    #1
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  3. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Jun 8, 2007]
    Seems a tad low for drag, but other than that they seem pretty good.
    Mine used to show 218ATW with 275 at the flywheel corrected to DIN standards, also on Star's rollers.

    Normally, I'd expect to see about 60BHP losses on a Haldex car.

    I've had 3 standard cars on Star's rollers in the past, and they've all made bang on the factory numbers...so I think his figures are pretty good.
    #2
  4. craig_007
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    craig_007 Member

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    [Jun 8, 2007]
    Thanks for that Glen,I also thought the drag was a little low and I'm quite surprised by what power it's making at the wheels !!
    What is the best way of making my car produce more torque,260 lbf-ft to me seems quite low compared to a few others especially your old one !!!
    Is it a case of a more aggresive map,I have the serial port pocket programmer at the minute,thats the unit that allows you to remove the map.
    Cheers Craig
    #3
  5. fingermouse
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    fingermouse thats me

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    [Jun 8, 2007]
    I have seen up to 100 bhp losses but thats with big heavy wheels on :(
    #4
  6. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Jun 9, 2007]
    Torque is proportional to boost...the more boost you run, the more torque you make...the K04 can't hold the boost to the redline, so adding more and more boost doesn't add more power at peak power sadly, in fact, in often reduces is as running higher boost low down makes everything hotter and the ECU retards the timing to protect the engine...hence less power top end.

    So, to get more power, you need better ICs, as much boost as you can hold, high octane juice and lots of timing...

    To get more torque, just add boost. That'll give you higher peak torque at the normal re-mapped peak torque point, but can make the top end feel more flat, as the torque soon dies off...you get a very aggressive boost delivery with a flatter feeling top end (it's not flatter of course - if you ICs are efficient - it just feels it)
    Very high torque peaks can also make the car less drivable...or more of a handful...which helps add some excitement to the S3, a good thing in my book!

    So...you can re-map for more boost (I was running 1.85 bar+ with no problems), you can fit an N75 H or J (watch out for the limp mode doing it this way) or adjust the actuator rod length (not recommended)

    From memory, 1.7 bar ish should see you over 300 lb-ft of torque.
    1,85 bar boost will see 330 lb-ft ish....and that feels like a lot!
    #5
  7. scib4
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    scib4 Beep-Beep!

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    [Jun 10, 2007]
    Here is a pic of my dyno graph from Star, i also would not mind a little extra.

    [​IMG]
    #6
  8. craig_007
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    craig_007 Member

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    [Jun 10, 2007]
    Thanks for that Glen,Easiest option for the minute seems to be adding a different N75,once this is fitted I assume the fueling will have to be checked to ensure it's not running lean ??
    If fuelling does have to be checked is there anyway at all I can do this myself ??
    #7
  9. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Jun 10, 2007]
    I had drag readings on a remapped s3 of 60bhp and 75bhp with the ihi turbo.
    Both run in 4wd mode. In 2wd mode which i would imagine those readings are taken i would say that it would be around 50bhp.
    #8
  10. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Jun 10, 2007]
    N75 works...but will probably give limp mode...and it's not the nicest to drive on. A bit spikey...

    For fuelling you need to use a rolling road and an accurate wide band lambda sensor up the exhaust. You could probably do it on the road with an accurate exhaust gas analyser...as we all have those in our garages! Not. :p
    #9
  11. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Jun 11, 2007]
    why not just use the sensors on the car ,closed loop lambda.Vag-com mate.
    #10
  12. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Jun 11, 2007]
    Didn't sample fast enough for my liking...

    I prefer to see an accurate plot from a dedicated machine.
    In the same way, I wouldn't use the boost logging facility on VAG Com as that's **** too!
    #11
  13. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Jun 11, 2007]
    I didn't have many problems they do have alot faster sample rate now with the better software and leads. Not as good as a proffesional unit but not bad.
    #12
  14. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Jun 11, 2007]
    I think that's the problem with mine...it's the old serial port cable.
    It works for what I want...I'd still prefer a stand-alone wide-band and much prefer doing it on the dyno rather than out on the road.

    I don't intend paying £100+ for a new cable that doesn't do anything more than I need either!
    #13

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