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S3 manifold options

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by daz-20vt, Oct 1, 2013.

  1. daz-20vt
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    daz-20vt Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 1, 2013]
    Hi all. My cars in having the head reconditioned, rods and a baffled sump fitted so the engine is pretty much out at this point and im thinking this is a perfect time to do the manifold. But seeing the lack of options im a bit stumped what to do. The guy has offered to port my standard manifold. Is there any point to this. I know a few are being worked on at the min just typical that im doing this work now. I know the horror stories of the relentless v1 v2.but were there any v3 cracking or was it just a case of flow not as good as the others. Would it still b3 worth considering? Im not on facebook and it seems a lot g9es on in there. Any advice would help as it will be so easy to do now. Thanks guys. Daz
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  3. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    A well ported V3 seems to be the best at the moment for longevity, but who can tell....
    Badger seems to have something up his sleeve, but dont know how far off it is.... :ninja:
    #2
  4. daz-20vt
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    daz-20vt Well-Known Member

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    I know he has been hinting and its the route id prefer As I hate the idea of doing the manifold twice but it seems mad not to do something now have there been any v3s cracking?i think i will go v3, Ive looked into it and found none as yet? Anyone know of any craking?
    #3
  5. IrishDave
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    IrishDave Active Member

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    [Oct 1, 2013]
    yes v3's have cracked.
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  6. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    I know they have cracked on the tabs, they all have but didnt know they have split?
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  7. slowcoach3
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    slowcoach3 Active Member

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    [Oct 1, 2013]
    Although I haven't seen a cracked one myself I have heard about them cracking. If its possible hold out a little bit for the next mani to be tested, fitment looks a lot easier and won't involve either head off or just hours and hours of misery like relentless mani's. I've just picked up a new turbo so I'm looking at a new mani because I don't trust my v2! In a selfless act I did offer to stick it on my car for testing..
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  8. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Oct 1, 2013]
    the cast jbs chinafolds seem a good compromise IF you can port them yourself
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  9. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    [Oct 1, 2013]
    Haa Bills tester?
    #8
  10. slowcoach3
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    slowcoach3 Active Member

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    [Oct 1, 2013]
    No unfortunately not, I merely suggested I would make a good one! Along with everyone else that has a ko4 lol I should think about a million folk have put their name forward but its all about finding time to test stuff I guess rather than not having a car to do it on.
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  11. daz-20vt
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    daz-20vt Well-Known Member

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    I could wait to do this for sure. But it would make sense to do it now. Having said thT it sounds as if i go relentless it will be coming off again at some point lol. So has the jbs manifold been sorted i heard that it has problems also. Thanks for all the replies. I have a couple of weeks to make up my mind.
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  12. JUS3IN
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    JUS3IN silver sleeper

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    [Oct 1, 2013]
    i have a v3, within a week the relentless badge pinged off, then last week i noticed the top tab has broken... just waiting now, you could get a specialised welding shop to beef all the welds up and then get it ported that is now what i wish i'd done... gonna heat wrap mine the weekend for an added bit of protection as its getting colder now...
    im guessing its the rapid cooling and heating that makes them crack? hopeing the heat wrap will be like a little sleeping bag lol!
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  13. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Oct 1, 2013]
    its Just the characteristics of stainless. To the punter that could be a selling point with the fact its shiny.
    Thicker mild steel thats painted or coated woild be better.

    My mates tubular mani for his sr20 is mild steel, mega money 6boost one
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  14. slowcoach3
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    slowcoach3 Active Member

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    [Oct 1, 2013]
    From my basic understanding wrapping it will make it worse not better. Holding heat in is bad
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  15. JUS3IN
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    JUS3IN silver sleeper

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    [Oct 1, 2013]
    ^ anyone else wanna confirm before i wrap mine??
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  16. daz-20vt
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    daz-20vt Well-Known Member

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    Justarn how long has yours been on? The reliabilty is very concerning lol. I do roughly 1-2k a year but once my works done ill be using th3 car on track so temps are my biggest fear. Wondering if i should just see how the tsfi k04 pans out.
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  17. JUS3IN
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    JUS3IN silver sleeper

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    about 3 months!! and its a weekend car so prob 1000 miles.
    #16
  18. S321BAM
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    S321BAM I lost the rod lottery

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    [Oct 1, 2013]
    Do the relentless manifolds still crack after the welds being beefed up. Stainless isnt the ideal choice for a manifold but think the main problem is the welding, alot of manufacturers 'fuse' the metal together and add no filler wire. A fuse is pleasing on the eye and a lot easier to do but the strength of a weld is in the filler wire added during the tig process. A fused weld doesnt like vibration.
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  19. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    [Oct 1, 2013]
    V1 & V2 suffered from poor welding or pretty welds, some have lasted after welding some have cracked, some crack on the bends know where near the welds, V3 seems a stronger unit but needs porting , dont know why they insist on the shiney shiney it must last 30 mins and is hardly seen, The v3s crack on the tabs from what ive seen and they are best left cracked so the mani can move a bit, its a gamble with all 3 IMO..
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  20. JUS3IN
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    JUS3IN silver sleeper

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    [Oct 1, 2013]
    so is the general opinion heat wrapping is a bad or good idea?
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  21. daz-20vt
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    daz-20vt Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 2, 2013]
    Lol the advice here is great but im more unsure what to do tuan when i started. So is it worth beefing the weld anywhere on a v3 or just left well alone and take your chance? Thanks all!!
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  22. russwuss
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    russwuss Active Member

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    [Oct 2, 2013]
    Back to JBS mate.. As far as I know the manifold isn't for sale anymore. There was lots of issues raised on a forum about the collector not being ported enough.. So at high load with stage 2 mods back pressure build up was causing misfire on cylinder 2.

    JBS wouldn't accept these claims, said it was other hardware.... Then mysteriously pulled the K04 manifold from their catalog.

    I have a feeling it was on vwvortex....

    As Karl said..

    http://m.aliexpress.com/item/1081667013.html

    ^ Direct copy of the JBS manifold from China, probably the same place JBS actually have there's made. Just needs porting at the collector to get rid of the issue mentioned above.
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  23. russwuss
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    russwuss Active Member

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    [Oct 2, 2013]
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  24. daz-20vt
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    daz-20vt Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 2, 2013]
    Is there anywhere you can buy in singles lol. I had a quick scan ill read properpy later. Seems once ported they flow fine but tuey need to be ported to work at all. Any known failures? I just wanna be sure of what i do before i tue head gets put back on.
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  25. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    [Oct 2, 2013]
    My mate that owns Unit18 has fitted a couple JBS manifolds, one of them only a couple of weeks ago. Once ported they seem fine. One has been on a 300bhp LCR for probably coming up to a year now and is 100% fine with no issues. I think (cant remember 100%) he said some of the nuts are still tricky to get onto but nowhere near what the relentless manifold causes.
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  26. wild willy
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    wild willy Member

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    [Oct 2, 2013]
    If you research the properties of the stainless used you can see that a manifold running at 800 degs is many times stronger than one running at 950 say. Too many people run these past 900 degs with no consideration for the massive expansion that takes place. That and the fact its chinese is why they crack!
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  27. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    [Oct 2, 2013]
    You dont have a lot of choice to whether the car hits those temps with the standard turbo when hooning it though. Especially if you ever step foot on track. Last year at Bedford Tam was hitting over 1000 deg on track.
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  28. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    If you're in a position to wait, I'd suggest you hold out for the TFSI kit. it's fantastic.
    #27
  29. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Oct 2, 2013]
    Rapid heat cool is the stress raiser ;)
    keep it warm and snuggly so not expanding and contracting rapidly would prolong a tubular stainless mani, ceramic coating etc

    relentless's "tabs" are a futile attempt at stopping it from cracking.. it does'nt reinforce anything it creates stress raisers, which is why things ping off on them. The outlet collector is a bent tube and as such even thinner wall section on the outside of the bend.. It see's focused 4cyls of heat.... and is the area they all seem to fail at.
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  30. wild willy
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    wild willy Member

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    [Oct 2, 2013]
    That's a fair point and having zero track experience I can't comment but anyone tracking one of these manifolds is expecting too much irrespective of the version it is. The V2 and V3 are good manifold designs its just unforgivable they don't match the effort they put into manufacture with the thickness and quality of metal used.
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  31. slowcoach3
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    slowcoach3 Active Member

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    I'm going to put myself on the naughty step, my bad :(
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  32. russwuss
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    russwuss Active Member

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    [Oct 2, 2013]
    I'm sure if you email the supplier you'll be able to negotiate a deal on one :)

    Couldn't comment on failures though. I'd say they'd be more reliable than the relentless just because their made out of cast iron.. No welding hence less points to crack?
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  33. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    it's such a massive lottery though isn't it?

    I'm not standing up for relentless quality at all here, but amazingly my reinforced v2 withstood 18 months of track abuse, and was in absolutely perfect condition when i removed it to upgrade.

    I've not heard of anyone else being nearly so lucky, but it seems one does slip through the failure net every so often.

    if only they'd listen to the advice and use a cast bend or similar in the collector, line the ports up right, and weld them properly, I think they'd be onto a massive winner.

    As it is, people are now looking at ways of avoiding the ko4 manifold fitment all together :(
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  34. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    [Oct 2, 2013]
    Just buy a new standard manifold, give it a light port and be done with lol.
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  35. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    there's life in k04-02x still Prawny

    not everyone (nor many I predict) be prepared to make all the "other" mods required to fit a K04-064 to their cars, IF they even fit 4wd cars with a/c still in place etc....

    It is without doubt a nice setup and works better than the same wheels in "existing" k04 installs. ;) BUt its not anywhere near as simple a change, and is closer to going BT than hybrid such are the other parts and changes required

    Sooner I get time/help to get the lupo converted to its full fat k04-02x unit on my manifold the better.... and we can see whats possible with the "right" mods to get the very best from such a setup...
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  36. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Oct 2, 2013]
    Oh definitely, i think the 023 hybrids are such a fantastic turbo, it's all just totally dependant on the manifold selection.

    if your manifold ventures pay off Bill, I think the 023 and hybrids there-of will carry on turning out cracking results for several years to come.

    As it stands at the moment, everyone seems to be in a no-mans-land, holding off fitments and purchases because they just don't know what to do to mate the lovely turbo to their engines.
    #35
  37. daz-20vt
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    daz-20vt Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 2, 2013]
    Prawn is exactly right. But im goin to make my k04 a little more interesring until the kit is available. Plus im stripping my s3 so im likely to need funds elsewhere before needing that amount of power. Any reviews on the franken turbo manifold?
    #36
  38. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Oct 2, 2013]
    you will find he's not selling them
    relentless v3 currently is his offering
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  39. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Oct 2, 2013]
    Its poo.
    Doug@frankenturbo is now using a jbs copy chinafold on his test car, and is considering supplying that (ported and coated obv) with his turbo kits.

    If it were my choice id get a cheap china fold and port and modify the feck out of that, they work, theyre cheap, its easy to do.
    Although i do understand some people arent keen on having to modify for something to fit and work properly.
    But the reliabilty seems better with cast vs stainless tubular. Thats the point that would sway it for me
    #38
  40. daz-20vt
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    daz-20vt Well-Known Member

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    What is a chinafold one lol. Is it the jbs copy?
    #39
  41. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    Its made by the same people just without the logo on it.
    identical otherwise, and unfettled will cause misfires on runner #2
    #40

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