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S3 - GIAC Remap Review

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by Spin140, Jan 14, 2008.

  1. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    Well after 7 months of running the car as standard (a first for me) I finally took the plunge and went for a remap at the weekend.

    Decision Process..

    I did a lot of investigation via magazines, numerous telephone conversations and monitoring of the various forums in order to idenfify which company to go for and surprised myself by breaking my previous 5 car allegiance to Superchips/Bluefin and opting for GIAC.

    I still believe SuperChips are an excellent company and am more than happy with the bluefin application on the wifes 2.0tdi DSG but on this occasion they didn't offer me as a regular customer enough of an incentive to prevent me from looking at what else is on offer from their competitors.

    The main criteria for me was indeed covered by several of the main players with all offering similar pricing and outright power claims, my decision was based on what I'd read and my own personal conclusions gained from this, I required the following minimum requirements to be achieved..

    > Reliable/Reputable Software
    > Zero ECU Flash Count - (Enhancing Dealer Transparency)
    > Switchability between Map and Standard - (Enhancing Dealer Transparency)
    > Smooth progressive Power Gains.

    Another major influencing factor for me was customer service and availability of technical knowledge, Price was also important but not key to my decision, I can confirm that both Bluefin and GIAC could be purchased with a minimum of 10 % discount merely by asking.

    Selecting a GIAC Dealer..

    Prior to comitting to GIAC and having the work done I liased via e-mail with one of their guys in America who was also very helpful, he confirmed all GIAC maps for the european market are written with 98ron fuel on spec and answered various other queries of interest to me about their software/process and responded via the main website , these were his details

    AustinWyly@giacusa.com

    The main UK Dealer for GIAC in the UK is Regal who distribute to various approved outlets, I am placed fairly centrally in the east midlands so had a few to choose from, I spoke with the various outlets and chose 'Statller' based in Sheffield as I was very impressed with the owner's background/ technical knowledge and enthusiasm, I was particularly attracted to the fact that Steve jr could not only carry out software changes to my car but could strip and totally rebuild it if the fancy took him.


    Statller is a family run buisiness (Father & Son) who specialise in all Porsche and VAG models, Statller is a trading division of Autorads which was established in 1983 and is basically a car parts specialist, The father runs Autorad from the same premises and Steve junior who is an experienced Porsche mechanic/technician looks after Statller with some of his colleagues who previously worked alongside him at main Porsche dealerships.

    The front of the premises was once a petrol station with pumps long gone but now replaced with hardware of a different sort - wall to wall Porsche's in various states of rebuild to customers specification. The reception is in an obvious state of refurb due to the previous summers Floods but a warm welcome is offered along with a brew. There are great plans for the premises over the coming months with new flooring to the reception areas and a bespoke Dyno on order for June 08. The surroundings are superficial as both father and son greet you in a friendly manner and are obviously keen to offer customer satisfaction.

    At the rear of the forecourt is a substantial warehouse with further working bays which is predominantly used for the Autorad side of the buisiness with Steve Jnr utlising the smaller 2 ramp workshop at the front of the building, this makes him accessible to his many regular customers and reportedly is far easier to heat.

    The Remap process..

    GIAC hold details of the various ECU types for your particular vehicle and all previous files for remaps performed so for all intent and purposes the maps offered are in the main 'Generic' but unique to your ECU type of which there are several already even for the new S3.

    > Customer requirements - initial conversation about your car, any current modifications and your requirements/expectations.

    > Health Check - A laptop is plugged into your diagnostics port and car's ECU is thoroughly interogated to ascertain zero faults.

    > ECU identification - A reading is taken & all details sent off to GIAC.

    > Map Identification - if suitable map has already been produced for your ECU type that matches your requirements this is selected and the remap process begins with the laptop being re-introduced along with the GIAC flashloader.

    *In the unlikely scenario that a suitable Map can not be identified for your particular ECU this means the process will be delayed as a bespoke map will be written by GIAC HQ in the states*

    > Completion & Further Diagnostics - After the new program has been uploaded, Steve Jr checks for any fault codes etc.

    The Test Drive


    The bit you've all been waiting for :)

    Initially Steve drove with me in the passenger seat, he drove gently and sympathetically and went onto explain the importance of not thrashing any car from cold.

    We took a few slow circuits of his usual test route and the car behaved perfectly, being smooth and typically 'S3' refined in the lower rev range, there was zero traffic around and steve planetd his foot exiting a sharp bend in 2nd, Bloody hell!! - The car's turbo made a wonderful sound on spool up quite a bit louder than standard with a great 'wooshing' sound, I was pinned back in my seat with what felt like a wall of torque, the car raced towards the red line where Steve promptly changed up a gear explaining that the rev limit will now be slightly higher but it's not his car so drove accordingly. We proceeded to do another few circuits which incorporated a few sharp bends and some long straights and from the passenger seat it felt like one hell of a fast car.

    My turn - we swapped over and I immediatley felt the difference from standard even after just a few hundred metres, I was not giving it any initially yet the car still felt far more eager but very, very smooth. Hit 3,000 rpm and its just amazing with shed loads of torque and nothing short of amazing accelaration all through the rev range, my car scared the 'shiv' out of me but boy did it make me smile.

    On my long journey home the car behaved impeccably with grin inducing accelaration available at demand, on the motorway cruise the extra torque makes itself obvious with gentle pressure on the loud pedal accompanied by a healthy turbo 'whoosh' I filled her up with V-power and have decided its pointless to monitor mpg at this point as I intend to really enjoy this tankful.

    On my return home I let the wife try it out, she has driven the car in the past and thought it was fast enough with no need for a remap, well !! I don't think I have ever heard her swear so much, she absolutely loved the extra performance and actually totally agreed it was money well spent, exiting tha car with a huge smile and shaking slightly from the adrenaline.

    The Gains

    I would expect the car to easily achieve the advertised gains of between 305 - 310bhp and am attending the Awesome RR day on March 8th so at least this can be quantified to a degree, but to be fair I'm not that fussed about headline figures, the car drives superb in every aspect, I will be interested to view the plot lines but expect to see nothing less than a smooth progressive power curve.

    Conclusion..

    The most common cliche heard at this point is "Just how it should have been from the factory.." - well this is so true but I'm glad they aren't because mine is now superb and at this early stage of GIAC entry into the european market still fairly unique.

    I have had both petrol and diesel remapped in the past and have always maintained that with a Diesel the map is far more noticeable with the petrol maps being more subtle, in this case I have been proved wrong as the car is now very, very smooth with progressive power available at all times but it really is night and day in comparison to Standard.

    I am glad I opted for the handheld flashloader and 'stock' (265PS) programming for those inevitable dealer visits, incidentally the handheld device is tiny in comparison to the bluefin and the map change takes seconds rather than minutes so another bonus. Additional maps can be purchased with functions like 'Valet' (reduced power) and 'Kill' (immobilise) for approx £30 and operated by the relevant button on the Flashloader - all not incrementing the cars Flash counter.

    Steve at Statller was a pleasure to meet and extremely knowledgeable, when asked about further recommended modifications he proposed an upgraded DV with metal internals of the same type used by Porsche, he had none in stock that day but offered to fit one for free next time I'm passing, he stressed there would be no change in sound but increased reliability would be offered.

    Stage 2 would require a sports exhaust system from Miltek with sports cat, this could add an additional 15/20 bhp but he said the benefits were in driveability rather than out and out gains, the GIAC map utilised is suitable for this stage or can be adjusted/replaced at the customer request.

    I would whole heartedly recommend the GIAC software to all S3 8P owners.

    Dealer Recommendation

    I have high expectations as a customer and these were all met, I will definetly use Statller again, I expect there exposure to be greatly increased over the coming months especially once the preparation of Steve's personal GIAC tuned 700bhp Porsche breaks cover and is featured in various tuning mags, this will enhance what is already a successful family run buisiness into an even bigger concern, the enthusiam and professionalism is a joy to be experienced.

    I get the impression from my visit and also from comments made by the many customers that 'popped' in for advice throughout the morning that Statller is a well kept secret in Northern parts and can understand why, Steve was in constant demand throughout the whole process due to his expertise in all things mechanical & technical, he was as happy changing a bulb for a regular as he was lightly stripping an A4 TDI Avant for yet another 'passing' regular in search of a solution to a fault, in the background 2 very expensive Porsche occupied the ramps and were being worked on by the other Porsche trained Techs, all in all it was an enjoyable morning especially if cars are your thing with all conversations revolving around the subject.

    The Statller website is currently under construction with not an awful lot to see as time is primarily devoted to customer requirements but the completion is imminent, if you have any questions give Steve Jr a call, but don't be surprised if he's busy :)

    www.statller.com.

    www.Autorads.co.uk

    Sales@autorads.co.uk

    (0114 279 8195)

    S4 7WX




    ..................Anyway think i'll go home for lunch today so I can go for a drive, woo hoooo !!!!!!!
    #1
  2. Bong Water
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    Bong Water In two minds

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    Nice write up, enjoyed the read
    #2
  3. Johnnyb
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    Johnnyb Member

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    Great review i told you, you wouldnt be disappointed,

    Did you mention to steve i recommended you? it might just give me a few extra browning points for any future requirements
    #3
  4. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    Great write up mate, i'll see you at Awesome on the 8th.

    p
    #4
  5. redbutcher
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    redbutcher Member

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    :icon_thumright: Great write up and a very interesting read - thanks!
    #5
  6. QuickNick
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    QuickNick Member

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    Spin140: Thanks for that - I was in pretty much the same position as you with regards to getting mine remapped and will be booking mine in shortly. How much was it with the flashloader?

    Where abouts in Derbyshire are you? (I'm just outside Belper)
    #6
  7. L33TAY
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    L33TAY Member

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    Great write-up Spin, thanks for that, again reinforced my decision, and will be visiting statller after run in period March/April ish

    What did you pay for the remap+flash loader if you don't mind me asking?

    Cheers
    Lee
    #7
  8. Kontraband
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    Kontraband Active Member

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    yeah, agree... great write up.... Ive never tweeked a car before, (not needed to) only keeping stock but as they are in Sheff, I might look at it this time round.
    #8
  9. SteveTDCi
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    SteveTDCi Active Member

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    agreed, thats a nice write up. Now do they do diesel remaps ....
    #9
  10. Kris
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    Kris Member

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    Good write up and useful info. I've also been thinking long and hard about a remap, i'm only 30 odd miles from Sheffield so i'd best pull my finger out and get it booked in!

    BTW: Did you get yours done on a Saturday?

    Thanks
    Kris
    #10
  11. jamiekip
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    jamiekip Guest

    hmmm, this is getting me thinking now, after vowing not to map this car!!
    Be interested to see those graphs after the RR day.
    Soo burned your way through that tank of v power yet!!!
    ;)
    #11
  12. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    Standard RRP are listed below with minmium 10% discount available if you negotiate, it's my understanding that each dealer only makes around 20% so whatever discount you attain comes out of his cut, most dealers were less inclined to discount the Flashloader as they make little out of it but get negotiating and who knows what you may achieve :)

    Remap - £529
    Flashloader - £99
    Additional Maps - £35 (stock etc)
    Total £663 for my recommended min package.

    You'll get if for £599 all day long - not the cheapest Tuning software but worth every penny, PJ Motorsport in the midlands offered before and after dyno as well for £585 but then never rang me back so I chose Statller.

    I'm about 3 miles from Ashby De La Zouch so if you want to meet up and take it for a 'Spin' drop me a PM.
    #12
  13. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    I wasn't aware of it until I spoke with steve at Statller but yes they do and reportedly with excellent gains following the same realistic limitations, in Steve's opinion the 2.0tdi should only be mapped to circa 185bhp for guaranteed reliability. His father runs an X3 3.0D Auto with GIAC software and is apparently rapid with zero issues.
    #13
  14. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    Hiya mate, what other maps ( if any ) did you get?

    Could you tell me a bit more about the immobilizer map?

    Thanks

    p
    #14
  15. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    Yes saturday is fine which was a big attraction for me, I arrived on 10:00 and left about 12:30, I was advised I may have to wait as Saturday was fully booked but I was keen to get the upgrade done.

    I forgot to mention that the remap also removes the Audi speed limiter so if you ever get to an autobahn you would be likely to see 165+ mph.


    The other programs available are as follows:-

    Valet - this reduces total engine power, limiting boost/rpm etc.

    Kill - This basically immobilises the car so that even with the keys it would not start, only the HH Flashloader can reset.

    Race - this programme is specifically for Race fuel/track days and achieves maximum output in all areas.

    The flashloader then has a further 3 buttons which can be utilsed if opting for larger turbos etc with specific mapping for those.

    I opted for 'Stock' (265bhp) and 'Pump' (310bhp) at this stage as I wanted to keep the price below £600 but may opt for 'Kill' at a later date as this would be useful when going on holiday etc leaving my beloved unattended for 2 weeks.

    Any more questions just ask away, as the days roll on it just gets better and the extra turbo sound is so addictive, even on a miserable grey day like today I'm a happy chappy :)
    #15
  16. Matt
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    Matt Active Member

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    That sounds like a really good service and product. I like the sound of the option of having other programs on there to switch between
    #16
  17. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    That kill map sounds really good! , round here and in rough areas all over , some hard noesed scum just smash your door down/attack you when you go to the front door! every night after your last drive of the car you can put the kill map on!

    Even if they get the keys off you it will give a few minuets to call the police and get out the back door!

    p
    #17
  18. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    How you finding the map now a week or so later?

    Still love it ?

    Any issues?

    Thanks

    p
    #18
  19. Kris
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    Kris Member

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    Well, i've decided to stop thinking about it and get it done. Spoke to Steve today who seems a decent guy and very helpfull, answered all my questions and didn't try to rush me off the phone. We had a long chat about a newish 330bhp map and its usability. Anyway, booked in for this Saturday ...... flash loader with 265bhp and 330bhp maps. Suger or bust, if it goes bang i'll do it with a smile on my face :icon_thumright: .

    Feed back to come!
    #19
  20. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    Do you know any more on the 330bhp map?

    Any other parts/mods needed?

    I'm scared for you! Lol

    p
    #20
  21. Johnnyb
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    Johnnyb Member

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    Hey there i believe im the first on here to have the 330bhp map by Statller, i recommended steve to spin140 who proceeded to write the best write up i have ever seen, anyway the 330bhp map is obviously excellent, i know you have to be careful with it though, and eventually im going to opt for a milltek exhaust to cope with the power, apart from that it seems relatively safe
    #21
  22. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    I'm not planning on getting mine mapped for a month or two , so it may be a stable map when i get it done, but if i was getting it done tommorrow i'd stick to the 310bhp map TBH

    p
    #22
  23. Oli.
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    Oli. Member

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    Do you have to put a full Milltek on to get the best out of the 330BHP map? Or just CAT back? How restrictive is the standard system?
    #23
  24. Kris
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    Kris Member

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    Steve tells me it will run on 97/98 octane with no problems, no other mods or parts just a straight re-map. The red line is increased by a few hundred revs and as mentioned before the limiter is taken off. One of my concerns (beside the fact it may blow up) was that i didn't want a great change to the driving characteristics under normal conditions but wharp speed when required! I'm told the S3 runs smoother (although i thought it was already smooth) and irons out any flat spots which i'm sure Johnnyb and Spin 140 could confirm.

    Scared? ..... no, can't wait to floor it and see how little to the gallon i get:)

    Hoping to get to the Nurburgring come spring so i wonder how the S3 will compare to my friends BMW Z4 M??

    Thanks to Johnnyb and Spin 140 for good write ups.
    #24
  25. L33TAY
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    L33TAY Member

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    OMG 330, is that JUST the map, or do you need extras, eg, exhaust etc, if not think that'll be going on mine:hubbahubba:

    :icon_thumright:
    Lee
    #25
  26. Kris
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    Kris Member

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    Just a map but wait to see if ours blow up first eh :)
    #26
  27. Johnnyb
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    Johnnyb Member

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    Thats the stage 2 map,

    To be honest, steve at statller is a friend of a friend so he isnt going to recommend anything that he thinks may harm the car. When he told me about the new map i did ask him about other mods, he said that GIAC have not recommended anything else to be done, but obviously an exhaust system would help out if your going to be thrashing it all day, i dont even think a full system would be required.

    The difference from the 310 map to the 330 is quite subtle, and the car still feels solid, so bearing in mind i dont thrash it all the time, im hopeful that nothing is going to go wrong, we will have to wait and see.

    By the way the car is fast as f**k
    #27
  28. Oli.
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    Oli. Member

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    Are there any dyno charts of this new 330BHP map - Id be very interested to see where the gains are over standard
    #28
  29. Johnnyb
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    Johnnyb Member

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    Not yet, but i would also be interested in that too, I could be wrong but i think spin140 might have hinted about getting that done
    #29
  30. Oli.
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    Oli. Member

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    Very good
    #30
  31. Kris
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    Kris Member

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    I asked Steve's advice on 310 or 330 saying i'd rarther go with 310 if it was a more user friendly drive although he sugested the 330 map is smoother. I may leave the car stock 265 most of the time as Monday to Friday is all urban driving and crawling along the power would be of no use and MPG of 330 around town i assume is worse? That said, it should be fun to flick the switch at the weekends and go play!
    #31
  32. Johnnyb
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    Johnnyb Member

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    Im a sales rep and running the 330 map, i just drive it normally throughout the day, if i encounter any problems i will probably ask him to flash it back to 310
    #32
  33. julians
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    julians Member

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    So what are the potential downsides of the 330bhp map versus the 310bhp map?

    I mean, given the choice, you'd go for the 330bhp map everytime if no other modifications are required, so there must be some downsides/risks.

    Can the conrods and valve train take the increased rpm limit?
    are the pistons marginal at this power?
    is the clutch marginal at this power/torque?
    is the gearbox/haldex ok at this power/torque?
    Will the engine start to 'knock' if the fuel is slightly below 98ron?
    Is the standard engine cooling marginal at this power/torque? maybe not a problem in winter, but what about summer?

    Anyway, really interested to hear your findings, especially the day to day running over the longer term, and whether there are any negative characteristics to the map.
    #33
  34. Johnnyb
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    Johnnyb Member

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    To be honest i have quite a low level of knowledge when it comes to cars, just the general basics, so i dont know much about conrods and pistons.

    I was actually going to ask what could potentially go wrong first in the engine hardware? and what i have to watch out for?

    I just try to have a good balance when driving the car, probably 80% reasonable and sensible driving and 20% really enjoying the power.

    I hope things dont go wrong as i really love the car as it is, and i have heard from a few mecanics that the S3 engines past and present are very hard wearing.
    #34
  35. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    The rev limit gets moved up on most maps, if your not thrashing it to the limiter all day it will be fine!

    p
    #35
  36. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    I'm not a techno head either but make sure I do all my homework prior to commital.

    The 330 map is called a Hammer map because it extracts max safe power from the car with no hardware changes, the 310 map was the first version to be tested and released with 330 being the latest version that they have just finished testing at GIAC HQ. No problems are expected as long as the usual rules/sensibilty applies - look after your cars engine via warm up and regular servicing etc. If 97/98 ron is likely to be unavailable from time to time they recommend the purchase of the flashloader and 'stock' map so the ECU can be reverted until the correct fuel is available, this is just an additional precaution as the ECU does still adapt to lower grade fuel and ramp back the power accordingly but as you all know this process takes a small period of time/miles to adapt.

    I've covered 300 + miles since the map and can report I am as thrilled with it now as at the initial inception, the car behaves completely 'factory like' until opened up and even then power arrives in a very smooth and progressive manner, in fact it scares the ***** out of me which is a good thing. The car is transformed and GIAC is worth every penny.

    I will be updating to this new 330 map pretty soon and attending the awesome RR in March so will post the dyno prints then.

    I'll also post periodic updates, at this moment in time the car is running as new - the first tank of V-power lasted 255 miles to the light as opposed to 280 pre-map so a reduction of around 2mpg but I have been exploiting the power on occasion so I expect this to improve. In fact in day to day driving I expect no difference maybe even a slight improvement as there really is no nedd to extend the revs now with all the extra urge - but you just do !! :)

    For this reason my car will stay in mapped guise for 99% of the year reverting to 265 for dealer visits only.

    My S3 now feels like what I imagine Audi would intend an RS3 to be like - its that good.
    #36
  37. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    spin140 how come you never got the 330( hammer ) map last week?

    Thanks

    p
    #37
  38. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    GIAC only released it on the Monday after my car was mapped on the Saturday following all their usual tests with ref to engine components/ longevity/reliabiity etc, Johnny B went back to Statller to purchase a Flashloader following my review and he had the update installed then, so just bad timing I guess.

    Spin.
    #38
  39. Johnnyb
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    Johnnyb Member

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    Yeah, i so happened to have very good timing, i got there and steve said do you want a 330bhp map? how can you say no?

    Also GIAC seem to be quite a few years ahead with their technology knowledge, so i beleive this map will be safe after their testing results, another thing i have noticed is that the exhaust sounds slightly boomier when you open it up
    #39
  40. L33TAY
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    L33TAY Member

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    lol Kris, yes, good idea:)

    Let me know, and i'll get the 310 after yours goes in for a rebuild.
    #40

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