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S3: Fitting FMIC on saturday! What to expect?

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Dennis Moeller, May 26, 2009.

  1. Dennis Moeller
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    Dennis Moeller Member

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    Howdy Folks

    I'm fitting a Front freezer on saturday...I'm really excited and I hope it'll nurse the engine/turbo beeing a remapped stock K04 AMK :icon_thumright:

    Should I expect any difficulties when installing? Cutting in the bumper nessesary? Any tips on that?
    Also what should I expect in terms of gains, except cooler intake temp?
    Tips in general?
    Anybody know the intake temp on a remapped S3 with standard SMIC's...?

    Cheers
    #1
  2. S3-Oski
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    S3-Oski Member

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    Hi Dennis what Front mount did you go for? cheers
    #2
  3. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    Was just about to ask the same thing lol
    #3
  4. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I hope its not anything other than Forge :eyebrows:



    only joking,heatsoak prevention thats what you'll get.
    #4
  5. Dennis Moeller
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    Dennis Moeller Member

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    #5
  6. indiemike
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    indiemike ZoomZoom

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    Im looking to do the same thing in the next few weeks, keep us updated on how it goes
    #6
  7. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!

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    Dennis you are officially the forum guinea pig...... good luck matey :))
    #7
  8. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    So they supply everything needed to fit it?
    Roughly how much is it costing you (in pounds haha)
    #8
  9. Dennis Moeller
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    Dennis Moeller Member

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    Yeah will do mate...

    Hehe...Let's hope we can achieve a good result then!

    Yeah they customize and supply all the bits and bobs. Forge BIIIIIG core, pipes, silicone, brackets etc. A mate of mine work there and on saturday the workshop is ours to do the install. Should take 3-4 hours or so he thought...need to cut a little bit out of the crash bar and manufacture aluminium brackets to hold the 'lil freezer...

    Price (good discount as I know them and free install): 620 pounds...

    I think it's a good prize :whistle2:
    #9
  10. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    So its the same price awesomegti are doing at the moment then.
    #10
  11. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    and so the quest continues for a cheap FMIC :)
    #11
  12. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    yup sure does :)
    #12
  13. Dennis Moeller
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    Dennis Moeller Member

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    Well for me it was the best (and the cheapest) way to get a quality FMIC fitted for free by proff's (not saying it's the best bang for the bucks, the cheapest IC that you can find on the market or even that it is the best one out there... :whistle2:)
    I guess it is an expensive kit. Mind you S3's cost from 20.000 pounds++ here in Norway so that justifies putting on those costly part to some degree...So far all these parts did set me back roughly almost 5000 including tint and cambelt/haldex/gearbox oil/filter etc. Yes pounds. Parts are harder to come by and way more expensive in Scandinavia. F.example a new S3 will cost more than 70 big ones. Without satnav and Bucket's...Sometimes I wish I was German hehe...Or better; a Norwegian working in Germany with a Norwegian salary paying german taxes...

    Ok enough OT: just been out on the roads where I did some VAG logging prior to the FMIC install.
    Test cycle:
    After 4-5 runs, where each run consisted of continiously going up the gears 3-4 times at full throttle, I logged a max intake temp at 36 degrees. First run it maxed out at 27 degrees and then it continously began to build up temperature at the intake. Only at the last run it peaked at 36 degrees but it was steady at 33-34 degrees. When I reached 36 degrees I did push the engine up to 6600rpm's, something I never do as it makes no point really...

    The test cycle probably equals 1 - 1.5 rounds on a "normal track"...I would have done some more logging in order to attempt 3-4 rounds on this imaginary race track (normal to do 3-4 rounds and then let the car cool down for 1 round...you know the drill) but 5-7 "R" bikes came along and "ruined" it for me...
    #13
  14. campbell
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    campbell Member

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    Does a forge FMIC really make a big difference? Even in cold conditions?
    #14
  15. indiemike
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    indiemike ZoomZoom

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    Was in work chattin today to a mate about one, he was saying theres a lad in work who does remapping and can get hope of forge equipment, so went and seen him and said he can get me one with all the parts £560 :icon_thumright:

    So going to see how much i get next pay day then try and sort something out
    #15
  16. Dennis Moeller
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    Dennis Moeller Member

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    Short and sweet: YES :)
    #16
  17. jimbobery
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    jimbobery S3

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    Dennis, any chance you can take some pics tomorrow of each step? I'd be great if you could put them together on here to show the fitting process?
    #17
  18. Dennis Moeller
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    Dennis Moeller Member

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    Sure Mate...SLR cam already got fully loaded batteries :laugh:

    Really exiting to see IF we need to cut something of the innerside of the bumper...Hope no to be honest. Would like to keep it as it is, but if it's required then what the heck. Nobody will see the cut parts anyhow...?!

    Slight chance I'll post the pictures on sunday...going to a party right after the install!
    #18
  19. jimbobery
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    jimbobery S3

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    Good work! We need some post FMIC intake temps too!
    #19
  20. Dennis Moeller
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    Dennis Moeller Member

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    All in time my friend, all in time...:moa:
    #20
  21. Forge
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    Forge Member

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    Hope it all goes well
    #21
  22. Dennis Moeller
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    Dennis Moeller Member

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    Ok, first of all fog lights almost certain got to go (for now). There's just no space for them. We tried to angle the pipes in various ways but it was tricky still. I might be able to squeeze them in later by modifying the brackets (with plastic, glue and a heatgun, we'll see...). They're unrealistically big!?!

    Secondly we encountered another "problem". There's a MAP sensor way down behind the headlight (passenger side for you guys) which were mounted on a plastic pipe. The pipe connects to the SMIC. This sensor has got to be reused in a way. The plastic pipe on which it's seated have a rare shape, 2" thick and is kinda squeezed a lot of places...Not good for the flow at all. So we'll continue tomorrow and hopefully come up with a useful solution. We talked about making a hole in the pipe and just glue it on. But nobody had faith in that. Alternately make a socket for it to sit in...

    Pics...A thorough step by step pictorial will follow when were finished!

    This sensor:
    [​IMG]
    This part number:
    [​IMG]
    The piece of S**T pipe that's got to go in the bin...(Forge's own kit, as I couldn't find word one in their installation guide, must be keeping this pipe??:
    [​IMG]
    Teaser one side...
    [​IMG]

    Continues tomorrow...
    #22
  23. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    Sorry to hear its not going good dennis, hope you get it sorted.
    #23
  24. s3ollie
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    s3ollie Member

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    i have the forge kit and i have my fogs in and bumper back on without modding anything, only thing is the bottom middle fixing for the bumper is about 3mm forward from where the hole is so i just made a new hole to hold it on.
    #24
  25. s3_kev
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    s3_kev Stage2'd!!!!!!

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    #25
  26. s3ollie
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    s3ollie Member

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    I used the plastic one on mine too but looking and dennis' picture it looks a bit puny. makes me think it might be worth getting that metal one!
    #26
  27. s3_kev
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    s3_kev Stage2'd!!!!!!

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    yeah me to but not sure you would notice to much gains for the effort on faffing around fitting it
    #27
  28. Dennis Moeller
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    Dennis Moeller Member

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    Aaaarghh. Things aren't going the way I thought I'm afraid.

    Fogs had to go, fitting of the grey surround grille are going to be difficult and pipes are NOT equal lenght on each side. Turns out the bloody shop ordered a bigger Forge core than the one in the Forge kit. So after countless hours of refitting, measuring, cutting pipes, bumper on/off, swearing and measuring again we kinda gave up. After more than 15 hours we were a bit tired of the whole thing. After finding a "nice solution" for the MAP sensor early today we then soon discovered that no matter what we did there just was no space for the fogs. I insisted that I wanted to keep the fogs but it would have been too time consuming to make it work. I got a free install but I'm also human so at the end of the day I had to let them go. The installer then joked about making an "R" theme to the front and cut out holes in the front for further cooling. That the foglight holes could have hoses attached to them. 1 for the BMC box which I'm gonna do and one for the innlet...That it looked awesome once we have equal length sized pipes...etc etc .
    But that was the first set back for me really. The fogs were a must have for me, if I knew they had to go I would have ordered the "real" kit with the thinner core. And cutting in the OEM grey sourround grille is the next problem for me. I have to get them to understand that it's a no no.

    Regardless, I have to go in another day and get the pipes at the bottom re fitted to make them equal in lenght. The right side are just turned wrong since the pipes are the same but left and right slighty different due to the tow hook pipe that really were in the way...
    Even if keeping the grilles in one piece means they will charge me money for all that extra work I'm okay with that. Car must look like I want it, not hacked up.

    It'll prolly come around nicely...right now I'm a little gutted...

    Car as it looks now:
    [​IMG]
    Crashbar cut:
    [​IMG]
    Lets hope I don't crash since protection is minimal now:
    [​IMG]
    Battery tray trimmed in order to get the pipes low enough to go under headlight:
    [​IMG]
    Brackets:
    [​IMG]
    Custom made MAP sensor location. It's now placed very near the coolant top line that goes in to the radiator so we had to use heat shield paper to provent heat soak (not in picture):
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Testing...all OK. Pipes on the right side...ICE cold hehe:
    [​IMG]
    I worked on the front in between manufactoring and did a nice mod to let in lots of air...:
    [​IMG]
    Stainless stell is just beautiful ain't it...:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Well there you have it. If I knew how much trouble we had to go through I'd never do this again. But then again...hard work pays off in the end and next weekend when I'm blasting along the track I'll probably forget all the misery and just enjoy a car that can take some punishment without having any heat problems...
    [​IMG]
    #28
  29. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    Dennis, how much boost do you run?

    I'll wager you'll blow a hose off.
    Those dots of weld I doubt will hold the joining sections on well enough when combined with Jubilee clips...especially if you are running 1.5+ bar of peak boost.
    I ended up running the Mikanor Supra Pro type clamps which allow a much higher clamping force to be applied...and full circumference welds or swaged ends...this was after I blew a hose off with a couple of 'dots' to keep it on.

    Just a thought...
    #29
  30. james0808
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    james0808 Active Member

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    Was thinking the same,get some Mikalor clamps on there.:icon_thumright:
    #30
  31. Dennis Moeller
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    Dennis Moeller Member

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    Thanks for the concern mate!
    When a mate and I measured intake temp and other stuff last week prior to the FMIC install we also logged the boost and we saw 1.58 bar in 3rd and 4th gear pulls.
    I too raised some concern to those dots but there were two other cars there that had excactly the same 'dot-n-jubilee' joined sections in the shop that day/days. Same IC too btw. One was a 350hp A3 1.8T running 1.5 bar and the other was a 300hp A4 1.8T...both of them covered many many miles without any issues...
    The shop told me this when I asked about the puny size and material on the jubilee's: Sure you can buy more expensive stuff that looks good and can be tightened even more, but you won't need it.
    They did tell me though, to drive around with a couple of extra jubilee clips and 6mm socket the first few weeks IF there was a hose that blew...And then he told me that if something goes wrong it will happen almost imidiately not later on...
    Hmmm, what to do now. I think that they did a poor job cutting the hoses, making brackets and the jubilee clips weren't mounted very need ie turned the same way etc. I WILL have to do this again 'cause I'm anal about those things. Must be 100% otherwise I'l think about all the time..hehe. So I had a look at those Mikalor clips you mentioned and they look the shizle...very expensive though. 30 pieces = 1200 NOK...

    Well I won't be able to buy them in time for the VW/Audi trackdays next weekend because I have the adjustable tie bars arriving late tuesday night, full alignment early wednesday (330 pounds...I was shocked to be honest) and a complete change of discs, pads, lines and fluid which I have to do thursday.

    Those cars, those cars...
    #31
  32. HTC
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    HTC Active Member

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    Thanks for postings those pics. I'm fitting a FMIC this week and those will help alot.

    Curious though, did you have access to a welder? I would have considered welding some of those pipes to cut down on the amount of joints.
    #32
  33. Dennis Moeller
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    Dennis Moeller Member

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    No problems mate, just ask if you wan't to know anything. Glad to help - that's what makes the forum good.

    We use a welder to weld those dots you see in the picture. Fully welding the pipes weren't an option for us since we did so much adjusting. Even now I have to go in and do a lot of the piping again to see if we can put pipes "closer to the car" so at least he front grille will fit better (I'm still hoping there will be some space for the foggies but I honestly don't think it'll happen)...
    #33
  34. HTC
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    HTC Active Member

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    That makes sense. I like the curved top mounting points you used. Did you use anything underneath the intercooler for mounting?

    I'll post some pics of mine when I get it done.
    #34
  35. Dennis Moeller
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    Dennis Moeller Member

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    No, no brackets underneath since the pipes in and out of the IC hold it where it's supposed to be.
    #35
  36. Shy19s
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    Shy19s Oil running through my veins.

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    Sorry you had a long day, but it will be well worth it in the end. Your car looks so aggressive from the front. blacked out grill on a black car looks perfect, look forward to seeing it when its done..

    have you thought about 'blacking out' the FMIc?
    #36
  37. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!

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    woah i didnt realise you'd have tio weld the damn hoses together!!!
    #37
  38. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    Low boost then eh? :laugh:
    You'll want more boost/torque...then you may hit problems.


    The peak power isn't the problem. It could be running 600 BHP for all it matters...what seems to the the problem is how quickly the peak torque boost is applied...mine was making 1.85+ bar boost and it went from nothing to full torque in 500 RPM...so the pressurised pipework gets shock loaded...and pops a hose off.

    Joints are always the weak point in any pressurised system...and they will take much more pressure when pressured up slowly. Shock them, and they'll let go.
    A K04 S3 is capable of delivering high pressure, very quickly and it can - and probably will - cause problems.

    Been there...done that...got stranded in the Scottish Highlands on an Audi-Sport run!

    It may be Ok...but if it were me, I'd want either swaged ends to the pipes or a full ring of weld (how I did it) and stronger clamps as Jubilee clips WILL work loose over time.


    From experience, you do.
    It's your car though...


    So there are concerns over the reliability of the Jubilee Clips then?

    You blow a hose off...what do you do?
    Limp home with and engine check light on, making next to no power and breathing unfiltered air?
    Or simply whip the bumper off at the side of the road and fe-fit a new clip using the box of tools you obviously carry around? (who doesn't?) :whistle2:

    Or...do you fit some 'proper' clamps and forget about any problems, kick back, have a beer and don't give it another thought?

    Hmm...

    Seriously...if you blow a hose off, it'll be on the worst possible day inconvenience wise, in bad weather etc and really spoil your day.
    Just give it some thought. Especially if you are having the bumper off again in the furure.


    It's a wise move Dennis.
    The Mikanor clamps (go for Supra Pro - stainless ones) are indeed the Shizzle.
    I'd opt for stainless too as they will corrode being in the air/water all the time and you really don't want to come back to a rusty mess in a year or so.

    At least you know you can whack the boost up when you feel like it and not worry about the hoses slipping off - but you really should consider getting those pipes ring welded too.
    Those dots will allow Silicone hoses to slide over them if the clamps work loose...this simply cannot happen with either a swaged end, or a fully circumferentially welded pipe.


    Spend, spend, spend eh? :whistle2:
    #38
  39. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!

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    cheers for the info guys...... aside from paying forge a silly amount for a kit that essentially doesnt fit straight away..... i aint messing with welds, really cannot be bothered if its going to mess with my reliability
    #39
  40. s3_kev
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    s3_kev Stage2'd!!!!!!

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    from when i fitted my fmic i really cant see many easy ways of doing a fmic and keep the fogs to,
    as for jubilee clips i have had them on mine for around 8 months now with a couple of the pipes without any anti slip protection just rubbed the pipe down with a bit of sandpaper to rough up the surface,
    i was a bit worried about useing jubilees but thought id give them a go as i got them really cheep so thought if they blow off then i will replace them with mikalor but now dont think i will need to bother,
    #40

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