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Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by mark88, Aug 1, 2006.
really, where'd you hear this?
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Perhaps Just covering there own backs, but The launch pictures do tend to differ from time to time!!
As I said the problem is squarely with the introduction of the s-line models, if these didn't exist then we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Even the name "S-Line" and the badge on the grill is giving the impression to the uninitiated that the car is something that it isn't. Just the cosmetic "benefits" of the S cars without any of the performance. Why is there a badge on the grill? I haven't got a "leather" badge or a "sports suspension" badge on my grill.
Any changes will be minor cosmetic changes and changes to what is included in the UK spec as standard which may be optional in other markets. There is no way the factory are going to make a different car just for the UK market.
Your right they wont!! But was just highlighting that there may be some minor chnages still to take place
I dunno. TBH I think its just because I'm really not a fan of the 8P. The 8L had everything. Understated smooth round good looks. It just looked damn good. Then when they made the s3 and b5 r/s4 they widened the track, dropped them and they just looked mean.
The 8P S3 just doesnt look like its got the balls.
But still, i'll reserve total judgement till i've had a testdrive....
I dont think you are going to find that the S3 offers a massive performance advantage over the current S line 3.2 so you could argue that in this case the S badge is being used to market and over price a car without any significant performance advantage
Photoshops, anyone know how to stop the forum resizing them?
Hi Mark, did you order one already then?
Noticed your profile changed "2007 S3 ordered for November"
Fancy a blue one this time as I'm getting used to Dolphin Grey after 5 years!
I haven't changed my profile, it's been like that for a few months. As it stands I have a deposit down on the S3 and am 2nd in queue at my dealers. Obviously though I put the deposit down before seeing these pics.
Apologies about not noticing the profile before, been working very silly hours this week! Sleep deprived.
I noticed you mentioned not being too happy with the styling, considering you have your money down are you going to go throught with it?
I was going to go to the dealers, but a major networking issue prevented me so will be off next week to see them.
Its a shame I can't go back to the same garage in Germany i got my import from, but they only apear to be selling VW's now...
Dunno, I'm gonna wait a bit longer to see the official options/price list and hopefully some more pics....
Prolly gonna go for a new TT, I just don't fancy paying all that money for a car that looks so much like my own. I know it was always going to be 'similar' but I think this just takes the piss a bit.
I don't see many 8P owners upgrading to an S3 to be honest.
"the S badge is being used to market an over priced car without any significant performance advantage"
I wouldn't say over a second quicker 0-60 is an insignificant performance advantage, that's 16% quicker with a much smaller/lighter engine (handy if you are foolish enough to run it as a company car) and with much better tuning potential. As I said it's not just about the engine, it'll handle much better than a 3.2 because of the weight distribution, the fact it's lower, has bigger brakes and I imagine some other suspension upgrades.
All that for £4k extra (that's the same money as adding satnav and a few other unnecessary options). But yes you're buying into a degree of exclusivity as well, otherwise you'd just go for an R32.
You could argue exactly the same point with the old S3 and the 1.8TQ.
My point is that the exclusivity has been devalued by the S-Line cars which, to the average motorist, look like a true S car, until they burn it off in their Saxo and either think the S3 is a bag of shyte or they realise it was actually a TDi S-Line.
I think you will find that the new S3 is less than half a second quicker 0 - 60 than the 3.2.
I cant see the S3 doing anything else but understeering its an Audi afterall
the S3 needed to be 350bhp and have a proper AWD system thats the problem 260 bhp is really not going to make a heavy undynamic car into anything else other than a a heavy undynamic car.
At 20k or therabouts the A3's make good sense but over3 0k for a tepid hot hatch. Not for me much better cars on the market to be had.
Yep & the gap will widen once you reach a 100.
I think the S3 will still be a very good car, the old s3 had a real kudos attached to it.
Coming from an S3 (3 years over 100K miles) the new one is not bad.
Yes it expensive though think about this its was 24K in 99 look how much houses are today ??, or petrol, electricity, gas, poll tax.
So 27K not really that much is it
Yes you can buy your fast fords, vauxhalls, civics, renaults but none of them are an S3
3.2 is 7 secs, new S3 is 5.9 secs, I make that over a second quicker, hold on let me use a calculator just to make sure, thought so.....
Tepid hot hatch? what planet are you on?
1. It's not a hot hatch, it's a bit more grown up & sophisticated than that
2. Even if you stretch the hot hatch definition then I think it just about beats every other hot hatch out there if the figures are correct (and so it should). So are you saying all hot hatches are tepid?
The current GTi is probably the best hot hatch on the market and the S3 is faster, straight line & should be round a track.
£30k on any hatchback is pretty ludicrous, would the S3 be the most expensive hatchback on the market?
But no one buys an S3 for purely practical reasons, it's an emotive decision and as such I'm sure they won't have any problems at all selling them.
Does anyone know whether DSG/S-Tronic will be offered and if so, when?
No, 7 secs is the quoted figure for the 2.0T, the official figure 0-62 for the 3.2 is 6.5 (6.4 dsg) and 0-60 is 6.2 - I can confirm the 0-60 is closer to 6 even with my own humble timing methods.
I read somewhere the projected 0-60 for the S3 was 5.7secs, which is half a second or theresabouts, which will be partly due to a few more hp and partly the lighter car.
Oh come on, try comparing apples with apples. The quoted figure for the 2.0T is 7 secs the quoted figure for the S3 is 5.9secs. If you can get 6.5 out of the 2.0T then you can get 5.4 out of the S3.
Lol I am comparing apples wiv apples, the current fastest A3 with the soon to be fastest A3. And anyway, I'm not saying the 2.0T is 6.5, I'm saying its 7 - read again!
Absolutely 7 secs (as per Audi web site) with 5.9secs as per Audi press release. Dhuuurrr!
Well I can't argue with the Audi website, have just taken a look to check and blow me they have REVISED their figures.
I have it in front of me, in last years (Sept 05) brochure for 0-100km for the 2.0T=7.0 and 3.2=6.5. Why they've changed them haven't a clue, but I do know that my 3.2 gets to 100km in close to 6 secs with just myself driving and no passenger.
Anyway, does anyone care about a few 10ths of a second?
A3 3.2 quattro maunual 0 - 60 mph 6.3 secs as tested with relevant timing gear by evo magazine.
We are comparing the S3 to the fastest model in the current A3 range .
Past 60 mph infact 30 mph I would imagine the differences between the S3 and 3.2 would be nothing as weight issues start to become less of a factor.
I would also imagine that a revo'd 2.0T would be faster than the S3 in the real world as according to Revo it produces about 30lb/ft more torque.
I guess Audi are massaging the performance figures I wonder why ?
"does anyone care about a few 10ths of a second?"
Well apparently you do as you're the one who brought it up.
All car manufacturers figures are conservative and until EVO test the S3 in the same conditions with the same equipment I guess we'll just have assume that the S3 with more power & less weight is 0.5 to 1 second faster. Also when chipped I'd imagine 320bhp wouldn't be out of the question.
It's got the same engine as a regular 2.0T, why should it reach 320bhp after remap?
strengthened head and bigger turbo for starters
The 2.0T has had some minor reworking but none of the key areas that are needed to make a high output turbo engine have been addressed they are identical to the standard engine
Oil breathing / cooling
for starters would be at the top of the list.
If you wanted a reliable 300bhp plus from this engine I would guess that you would need it entirely rebuilding from scratch. I doubt the transmission would cope either as it is the same as the standard 2.0t cars.
According to the audi blurb
The S3 engine will run at 1.2bar of boost to make its 260bhp in comparison 4G63 evo engine will make around 330 - 350bhp at this kind of boost level.
So the 2.0tfsi is quite a highly strung little unit in terms of boost pressure at only 260bhp.
If that is the case then they'll be doing an awful lot of warranty work just on the standard car. Audi aren't really known for jacking up the power output to the limit on their engines. On the contrary they are usually detuned to a certain extent which makes them so good for tuning.
Entire rebuild from scratch to get another 15% out of it? I don't think so, it's not a Ford!
I dont know if we know the full extent of the rework of the 2.0T engine for the S3. But they do seem to have looked at the engine cooling according to their press releases
Well I'm not an Audi or even VAG owner and havent been for a time, so no vested interest. Reading your posts, your obviously very anti the S3.
I'm an ex S3 owner, R32 and MKVGTI and have recently owned a VXR. In my experience the VAG 3.2 might be quick in 0-60 and 0-100, but its a gutless piece of **** in real world driving. There is no mid range to talk of.
I actually think that the S3 is filling a gap not being served at the moment. The latest Golf R32 costs the same as the S3 by the time you add Leather (which you would be mad not to) and lots of people are buying that car. On the M4 the other day, I thought I had an R32 up my arse, but it turned out to be a 2.0TDI.
Price wise the S3 is priced right, it going to be quicker than an R32 and A3 3.2 (and in real world driving by a margin). The std spec is damn good, Xenon's, Leather etc. At least you wont lose your fingers cleaning the wheel and can probably complete the task in an hour. You need to set aside a day for the R32 and book in for your fingers to be sewn back on. When people talk about the price difference, go price a MKV GTI with Leather, 18's and Xenons!!, its not that much.
I'm sure you will be able to add exhaust and chip and get 300bhp if wanted.
For those of us that dont want to, then the S3's power will suffice.
As for understeering like a pig, how do people know. The last two Audi's - TT and RS4 have all had good reviews. Anything is possible. Take a std Clio and then compare it to a Trophy or 197 - hard to beleive they are the same car. if Renault can do it, so can Audi.
Ive really struggled to find anything to flick my switch since selling the VXR. The std 2.0T engine is a step backwards from the VXR's. This is the first car that seems to hit the spot. Might give me the thrills of the VXR without having to go to the aftermarket
eh? Surely that makes the audi less tuned?
"Ive really struggled to find anything to flick my switch since selling the VXR."
Why did you sell it then? Are there too many bends in the roads in your neck of the woods?
"Like being towed by Thrust2 on a tea tray!"
Andy I take it you don't read Evo mag then...
I think you will find that that rework relates to the intake cooling not the actual engine cooling
What it means is that to make more power you will need to start to winding the boost pressure up . As the S3's engine only makes 260bhp running 1.2 bar of boost the aftermarket tuning etc is going to be quite restricted as its going to need a lot more boost 1.6 bar etc to make some proper power. Running hi boost leads to allsorts of problems blow by / bore wash etc etc . The more boost a car runs the more it will suffer from lag and the less driveable in real world terms it becomes.
In comparison an evo engine will make alot more power than 260bhp at 1.2 bar boost meaning it is a less stressed unit in comparison
Not anti S3 at all but would have expected a lot more from a supposed performance orientated car.