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S3 Exhaust Manifold - Uprated Options?

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by funkymofo, May 25, 2006.

  1. Defratos

    Defratos You’re Dethpicable!!

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    would the small gt28x require less work than the larger one? and how laggy would the samll one be?
     
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  3. ChriS3

    ChriS3 hud at ye bam

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    The GTRS is the kit to go for, there's no GT2X kit for the S3. Should be about the same amount of work to fit it, but the smaller turbo should spool up quicker and therefore less lag.
     
  4. Defratos

    Defratos You’re Dethpicable!!

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    So would the larger GTRS spool later and then cut of at 7000rpms? and the small one would spool faster up to the same rev limit? so less work with the small one and same or near same performance overall? is this what u guys are sayin? (sorry if I lost anyone there)
     
  5. Ryanc

    Ryanc Active Member

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    small gt28rs,quicker spool,standard injectors,not pushing standard internals too far.
    Probably full boost around 3500rpm.
     
  6. ChriS3

    ChriS3 hud at ye bam

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    [ QUOTE ]
    So would the larger GTRS spool later and then cut of at 7000rpms?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The GTRS will spool up quicker than the GT2871R.
     
  7. ChriS3

    ChriS3 hud at ye bam

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    Ryan, how's the lag on the IHI?
     
  8. Ryanc

    Ryanc Active Member

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    Not too bad, full boost by 3500rpm.
    Although i do run a larger p20 exhaust housing which makes it 200/300rpm slower.
     
  9. ChriS3

    ChriS3 hud at ye bam

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Not too bad, full boost by 3500rpm.
    Although i do run a larger p20 exhaust housing which makes it 200/300rpm slower.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'll be looking to do the big turbo thing in the next few months. Currently thinking about the GTRS Eliminator - only after about 320-330bhp (should be enough for me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

    Keeping my options open though, so I'll be hassling you at inters to show me what you've done /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
     
  10. Ryanc

    Ryanc Active Member

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    No Problem mate.
    Eliminator seems ok,but just wouldn't go for too big a turbo,small gt28rs should be fine.
     
  11. Defratos

    Defratos You’re Dethpicable!!

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    the reason why I keep on askin about the larger gt28rs is because I'm looking at keeping my car still for several years (not even sure if I want to sell it) so I'd like to invest my money in a turbo that would be big enough for future internal upgrades.

    P.s.what's a p20 housing (exhaust manifold?) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/froggie_red.gif
     
  12. keendean

    keendean Member

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    If you wanted the around the 300bhp mark and no more, how much money would you be looking at out of interest?
    In other words you could run the uprated turbo gt28rs with everything else standard and still get around the 290/300 bhp mark?

    I guess with maping you'd be looking at £2000?
     
  13. Ryanc

    Ryanc Active Member

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    keendean-gt28rs eliminator kit,probably go for de-cat/exhaust/mapping/fpr
    Would be a little more than £2k but not much more.

    defratos-You could always have the small gt28rs rebuilt to higher specs.
    You have got to think what you want ,you can't have big power without a serious loss in response.
    Also there is a limit to what standard internals will take especially yours with 19mm pins. large gt28rs is about the biggest you could go with standard internals.Plus the standard exhaust manifold is restrictive so a large rs "may" not be any better than a small version rs.

    A p20 is the exhaust housing or "hot side" of the turbo(ihi),having a larger area housing gives you slightly more flow at high rpm at the expense of spool up.
     
  14. Defratos

    Defratos You’re Dethpicable!!

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    I'm not looking at going any bigger than the large gt28rs, I doubt I'd get the 370 figure I was aiming for but 350 hp would be nice. If I do go for the larger gt28rs I would also upgrade, exhaust manifold/Downpipe/fpr(plugs)/fmic/Rods and map. I wouldn't fit the turbo with all the stock components and at some future point upgrade the FMIC (brakes/ clutch etc...)so how would you feel performance would be affected Ryanc?? would u say it would be too laggy and no fun to drive over the smaller gt28rs?

    Plus can't boost control sort out anything powerwise? even if its for just fast sprints quarter mile?
     
  15. Ryanc

    Ryanc Active Member

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    350bhp tops on large gt28rs "if" the standard manifold doesn't restrict,you will need a better ic for 350bhp.
    I have seen a dyno of a large gt28rs against my ihi and is alot laggier,i'd be guessing 4krpm full boost

    You can run less boost, but the gt28rs has a set amount of flow and will flow no more than this.
     
  16. Defratos

    Defratos You’re Dethpicable!!

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    ok so do u reckon I could squeeze 350 with the small gt28rs? and the mentioned upgrades above? and do u know what max tourqe u could get out if it? and how come ATP's website only seems to have one gt28rs and no large or small options?
     
  17. Ryanc

    Ryanc Active Member

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    small gt28rs will not flow more than 325bhp
    torque wise i suppose you could run wastegateshut high boost and see very high torque but it's a factor of boost to a degree.
    There are 2 different a/r's .64 and .86
    .64 small .86 large.
     
  18. Ryanc

    Ryanc Active Member

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    Just been on the atp site there seems to be 2 choices ,350 kit and 400.
    i'd go for the 350 kit( this is based on the compressor map) with the .64 housing if you can choose.
     
  19. Defratos

    Defratos You’re Dethpicable!!

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    what's putting me off the small gt28rs is that it won't flow more than 325hp, and I want a turbo that would benefit (increase hp) with bits a pieces that I add to the engine. This is why I'd like something that would take and benefit from a newer inlet manifold and maybe pistons at some point, camshafts etc... if I did this with the small gt28rs then I won't move anywhere in terms of hp correct? or am I not getting it. is the .64 housing the exhaust manifold housing? and is the .86 housing larger (so laggier and need different housing to connect up proparly?

    and how come Ryanc you suggest the small gt28rs whereas Rich would go for the gt2871R (is this the larg gt28rs?)
     
  20. ChriS3

    ChriS3 hud at ye bam

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    How much power do you want, and why?

    Are you looking to uprate the internals to handle the power/torque? If you want the GT2871R power then I'd be worried about the clutch, valves, trasmission, etc.
     
  21. RichA3Turbo

    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you!
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    GT2871R (I think...although not entirely sure....never really bothered looking at 28 series) is capable of more powee than large or small 28RS.... I'd go for it just for more power, but would uprate everything that moves in the engie and have a high rev limit.

    Rich
     
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  23. Defratos

    Defratos You’re Dethpicable!!

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    right, well it seems that the gt2871R is too bit for me. what HP limit would the large gt28rs flow? anymore than 325hp as in the small gt28rs? and would I need to worry as much with the large gt28rs about the internals? as much as the GT2871R? or would I be able to change and strengthen parts of the engine with it on without giving me much hassel over weak parts?
     
  24. ChriS3

    ChriS3 hud at ye bam

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    If you're looking at an Eliminator there is NO OPTION of a small or large GT28RS. It's the 350 GTRS, or the 400 GT2871R - that's all they do.
     
  25. nervus

    nervus Well-Known Member

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    The thing is Defratos, I think a turbo upgrade is something id wanna do once only and get right.

    You dont want to be changing things like exhaust manifolds, injectors etc down the line and have to have a custom map written to gain the extra hp each time.
     
  26. Ryanc

    Ryanc Active Member

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    Yep if i was uprating the internals then i'd be aiming for 480bhp with a suitable sized turbo/injectors/proper exhaust manifold.
    If i was sticking to a 1.8 or standard internals ,i'd be looking for a good mix of power and response,maximum of which is about 360-400bhp with a correct sized turbo.
    If i was on a budget then a small sized turbo that won't destroy the stock manifold ,intercoolers etc then i'd be looking at 325bhp etc
    A small gt28rs .64 can be upgraded to near gt3071r spec which is capable of near 440bhp.
    You need to think what you want and what you want/can afford to spend.
     
  27. Defratos

    Defratos You’re Dethpicable!!

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    cheers guys for being so understanding, i'm surprised I haven't /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/swear.gif anyone off yet with the same questions.

    ok well I'm not looking at uprating all of the internals, maybe bit by bit, but I will most likley stick with the 1.8 defenatly not looking at boring the engine to bigger size. So bottom line is I'm convinced on the small gt28rs (350hp) just curiouse Ryanc how would an upgraded gt28rs go? would it be a hybrid? and would it be capable of a bit more power if I take this route?
     
  28. Ryanc

    Ryanc Active Member

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    I would go no bigger than gt28rs on a 1.8,the driveabilty would be awful.
    hybrid gt28rs, upgrading to 71mm compressor etc would mean more top end power for a trade in resonse/lag.
     
  29. ChriS3

    ChriS3 hud at ye bam

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    Got this from ATP this morning....

    "Chris,

    Actually, we decided to add one more wastegate option to the S3 manifold so
    it's delaying the production by a few more weeks."

    Sounds promising.....
     
  30. Defratos

    Defratos You’re Dethpicable!!

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    Ryanc, you said driveability would be awful, is that for a turbo bigger than gt28rs? or are you talking about the gt28rs? and Chris so ATP haven't got an exhuats manifold ready to buy yet?
     
  31. ChriS3

    ChriS3 hud at ye bam

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Got a reply from them yesterday.
    They basically said that they were developing one but they could not confirm a completion date.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yep, Defratos. At the beginning of the thread I think we established that they're not ready yet /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif
     
  32. Ryanc

    Ryanc Active Member

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    yep anything bigger than a gt28rs on a 1.8.
     
  33. Defratos

    Defratos You’re Dethpicable!!

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    lol, just got that Chris my bad /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bang.gif.....Thanks again for the help, will post more questions in the future when ready to make these changes /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
     
  34. Defratos

    Defratos You’re Dethpicable!!

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    hey if ATP doesn't have an exhaust manifold, do any other companies supply it for the gt28rs?
     
  35. Ryanc

    Ryanc Active Member

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    Not that fits a s3.
     
  36. Defratos

    Defratos You’re Dethpicable!!

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    hummm, now that's a shame. So r u running the standard exhaust manifold on your hybrid Ryanc? what about Rich? standard as well?
     
  37. They both have IHI turbos... different manifold completely.
     
  38. Ryanc

    Ryanc Active Member

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    different manifold,cast hi-nickel content.Cosworth have tested and are impressed with it.
     
  39. Defratos

    Defratos You’re Dethpicable!!

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    would the new ATP ones be any better? or same? and would I be able to get similar to yours if I do go about buying the turbo before the exhuaust manifold is out?
     
  40. Ryanc

    Ryanc Active Member

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    I'd wait for the full kit to be released.
     
  41. Defratos

    Defratos You’re Dethpicable!!

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    cool. Do any of you know what turbo the Mitsubishi Evo 8 runs? cause it runs around the same hp figures as the gt28rs and was wondering if it's the same? any idea?
     
  42. Ryanc

    Ryanc Active Member

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    Mitsubishi td05 16g twin scroll and it's spins the other way round.
     

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