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S3 DSG Gearbox

Fiddie May 8, 2014

  1. Fiddie

    Fiddie Active Member

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    Does know anyone if there are any way to change the direction of the shift lever?
    I mean... pressing forward is for gear up and I would like to gear down. And pressing back I would like to gear up.

    Maybe Im too odd :ermm:

    Thanks!
     
  2. steeve

    steeve Well-Known Member TeamMisano Team Ibis Audi S3

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    Any specific reason for that ?
     
  3. Fiddie

    Fiddie Active Member

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    I continually mistaken when using gear lever (but not when using shift paddles on the steering wheel) :(
     
  4. kanecullen89

    kanecullen89 Active Member

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    I've got a manual myself but I recently had a new a6 with auto.
    I found the very same issue.

    When you play any game with a gear selector or look at any sport car, push forward is got gear down and pull back is for gear up. It's just natural.
    I don't understand why audi is different
     
    Fiddie likes this.
  5. Fiddie

    Fiddie Active Member

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    Yes. I think my problem is caused by video-games :happy:
     
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  6. S3 AD

    S3 AD Active Member

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    I dont think its caused by games - look at any proper race car semi auto and it push to go down and pull to go up. The games copied actual race car set ups
     
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  7. Fiddie

    Fiddie Active Member

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    Do you think it could be changed using VCDS?
     
  8. Helifella

    Helifella Co-Driver ~ Hattie Moderator Regional Rep VCDS Map User

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    I had same issue in a Brabus Smart. A lot of manufacturers seem to do it that way.
     
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  9. SilureMark

    SilureMark Active Member

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    You'll quickly get used to it and then it's second nature... assuming the s3 box is the same as my last two TT's boxes (I didn't check when I test drove the S3's) what I don't like is that the gear lever gets pushed away from you to select manual mode - of course if you're sitting in a left hand drive car that's fine. Essentially Audi were too lazy to modify that for right hand drive vehicles. Strongly recommend the AMD s tronic remap for the S3 - had that on my TTRS and it really improved everything that's annoying about the double clutch box - putting me in control! Going to have my new S3 sorted straight after delivery!
     
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  10. RYuill

    RYuill Well-Known Member Audi RS3 Audi S3

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    Can you please explaine this in a bit more detail? can you have it so it dosn't change gear for you, like once you hit the limiter in manual?
     
  11. Adam.

    Adam. Meow.

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    You can bounce the car off the limiter with a DSG map when it's in manual.
     
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  12. lee_fr200

    lee_fr200 Active Member

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    If it can't be sorted by vcds then take the centre console apart n swap the microswitches around
     
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  13. PembsA3

    PembsA3 Active Member

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    I'd really like the shift up/down to be the other way round too. It's just not natural to me and I STILL have to think before I shift manually using the lever. If I don't concentrate I often shift the wrong way!... I like using the stick (I miss my manual) but I have to use the paddles to avoid embarrassing mis-shifts!
     
    Fiddie likes this.
  14. Fiddie

    Fiddie Active Member

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    Can I do it myself? It does affect warranty?
     
  15. lee_fr200

    lee_fr200 Active Member

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    I doubt they would ever know
     
  16. pat15312

    pat15312 Well-Known Member

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    Even if you can get it to reverse the actions, the "+" and "-" labels would then be the wrong way around and can't see a way of changing that nicely.

    Just live with it and use the paddles.
     
  17. SilureMark

    SilureMark Active Member

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    It's laid out how it should be - push it forward to go up a gear + and back to go down -

    I'm lost as to why some of you think that's counterintuitive and want that reversed.

    AMD s tronic remap: AmD Tuning are pleased to announce that we can now offer our own DSG gearbox software upgrade.

    The DSG remap upgrade is a great addition to an all ready impressive gearbox, the remap gives the driver back full control in manual/sport mode as well as enabling full use of the engines power range.

    The DSG gearbox remap includes the following features :-

    - Launch control enabled at 3200rpm.

    - The torque limit built into the factory software has been increased to 500Nm (368lbft). Please note: these limits are not hardware limits, but built in software limits from the factory. As with all our software, our DSG software operates within the safety tolerances set by the factory.

    - In gear display is turned on. (model dependant)

    - Kickdown has been disabled giving more control over the car, the car will no longer select gears in manual mode. Driver has full control.

    - Auto upshift is also disabled allowing the driver to upshift as and when they please. Giving more control to the driver and allowing the full potential of power to be seen from the car.

    Our DSG remap costs £299.95 inc vat or £199.95 inc vat when purchased with our AmD engine ECU remaps. Customers already running our AmD remap can also take advantage of the £100.00 discount.

    If you would like any further information or would like to book in please call on 01708 861827 or emaial at sales@amdessex.com
     
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  18. balsaq

    balsaq Member

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    But it isn't counterintuitive. To you it may be. But if you were to compare it to many sequential gearboxes (which what fidde appears to be trying to emulate by using the gear lever as so), then you'd find that they upshift when pulled back and downshift when pushed forwards.
     
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  19. Fiddie

    Fiddie Active Member

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    I think just like balsaq :yes:
     
  20. h5djr

    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User Gold Supporter quattro Audi A3

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    I've been driving with an DSG/s-tronic for 10 years and the current setup seems perfectly logical to me.
     
  21. balsaq

    balsaq Member

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    Naturally you'd be used to something you've been doing for so long... ;-)

    I think another similar situation is like that of a flight yoke. Pulling back to go up and pushing forward to go down doesn't seem intuitive to some, but comes naturally to most. It would be one hell of a boring world if we all thought the same
     
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  22. veeeight

    veeeight I am a very pretty girl VCDS Map User Black Edition

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    From a pure Human Factors & Ergonomics Point of View, you push forwards to go faster (forward motion), and pull backwards to retard.
    If you got a brand new driver sat in a car, they would instinctively push a gear lever forward to go forward.

    Plus - from the days of

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    To select a lower gear, you pull the lever towards you.


    However - from a historical point of view, sequential gearbox (eg: motorcycle) you would (apart from 1st) "pull" the lever to change up.

    Also - from a dynamics point of view, under acceleration, there is a argument that when accelerating, and when you're pushed back into your seat, it's easier to pull the stick backwards (not fighting forces) to change up, and when braking, again, you're not fighting forces by pushing the stick forwards when braking.

    Different manufacturers have different POVs (based on the aforementioned) so there is no universal standard.

    Porsche is currently suffering an identity crisis, in all their PDK cars (except GT3) it's push to upshift, in the GT3 (with PDK S) it's pull to upshift.
    Go figure.

    The lovely thing about being human is the ability to adapt :)
     
  23. veeeight

    veeeight I am a very pretty girl VCDS Map User Black Edition

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    *bumped* due to the current discussion about + - in another thread.
     
  24. Vertigo1

    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    Woo now we can argue about it in two places! :)

    I find claims that the S-Tronics system is "logical" or "makes perfect sense" totally laughable to be honest. Sequential gearboxes, which is what the plus/minus system is emulating, have ALWAYS been back for up and forward for down. This isn't up for debate, it's a simple fact and I wish the car manufacturers would stop trying to be smart-arses and just accept established practice.

    It actually makes perfect sense too if you think about how the forces work inside a car. When you're accelerating, and thus working up through the gears, everything inside the car is being forced "backwards" due to the accelerative force, whereas when you're braking the opposite is true. For this reason it's totally natural for the gearshift to work as sequential shifters do - you pull back to change up because that's the prevalent force being applied to everything anyway, likewise when braking and pushing forward to change down. The S-Tronic system is totally backwards - when you're accelerating it's totally unnatural to be pushing forward on a lever against the accelerative force of the vehicle and also to be pulling back to change down when braking.

    The debates we have about which way the MMI wheel should turn for scrolling or zooming are a good laugh because there's no "right" or "wrong" here and it's pretty subjective. Not so with the gearshift - Audi are just plain wrong.
     
  25. veeeight

    veeeight I am a very pretty girl VCDS Map User Black Edition

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    You sound like PA .........

    There is no "plain wrong" about it.

    "Accepted practice" stems from PRNDL where the lower gear is toward you.
    Human Factors and Ergonomics also suggest forward to go forward and change up.

    Motorsport, computer games and sequential gearboxes are the reverse ;)

    Why are you insisting that consumer (not Motorsport) cars and sequential gearboxes (of which the DSG or S-tropic isn't) conform to a totally different application!

    There are two systems, for two applications. Can't see why you would feel the need to impose one onto the other. Especially when S-tronic isn't a sequential gearbox ;)
     
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  26. david7m

    david7m Active Member

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    Why would you want to do that? Remember the ECU logs such abuse and if done excessively, and you still in warranty, it could be refused as a claim on anything related.

    Dave
     
  27. Vertigo1

    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    Because the plus/minus function on the gearshift is specifically emulating a sequential shifter and thus should behave the same way that all proper sequential shifters do.

    As for what's ergonomic or logical, that's irrelevant, there is established practice here. By your argument, the yoke in an aircraft should be pushed forward to go up and pulled back to go down? :p
     
  28. veeeight

    veeeight I am a very pretty girl VCDS Map User Black Edition

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    The aircraft yoke scenario involves a translation (forwards backwards to up down), so shouldn't really bring it into discussion ;)

    By your "established practice", push to slow down, pull to go faster - is the reverse of ergonomic design. It's the same thing as turning the steering wheel to the left to go right ;) "Established practice" it may be, but the reverse of what you'd expect.

    As for emulating a sequential gearbox - it isn't! It's a DSG gearbox in manual mode. No one ever said anything anywhere about it trying to emulate a sequential gearbox. You've got that in your mind, which leads to your frustration! ;)


    So - Average Joe - who buys an Audi A3 - is more likely to:

    1. Have seen a car with PRNDL where the lower gear is towards you
    2. Driven a car with a sequential gearbox :p



    Two different gearboxes, two different applications. Don't try and impose one on another!
     
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  29. Itguy

    Itguy Well-Known Member

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    Ok I can't resist any longer

    Why on earth would you use the stick in manual mode at all when you've got paddles behind the wheel meaning you can keep both hands in the right place to have maximum control??

    Oh and lets not start the debate about which hand should be up and down shift or if they were right to be mounted on the steering wheel or should be static on the column instead :jump:
     
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  30. veeeight

    veeeight I am a very pretty girl VCDS Map User Black Edition

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    At least we have two separate paddles that do two seperate functions.

    Some cars have silly thumb push-pull paddles that change up-down on each/both paddles !

    Now that does cause arguments!
     
  31. Vertigo1

    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    It's exactly the same thing :p

    Sorry but it's nothing like a steering wheel. There you're turning the wheel left to make the car go left and the same for right. If pushing forward on the gearshift made the car go forwards and pulling back made it go backwards then I'd agree this would be the same and very logical but that's not the case. We're talking about how gear selection works, not whether the car goes backwards or forwards.[/quote]

    Haha, so it's providing a system whereby you can move up or down a gear with each push or pull of the lever - how is that not, by defintion, emulating a sequential gearbox?

    Sorry but, if you're going to continue comparing to the PRNDL layout, then R is above D, so you push the lever forwards to go backwards and pull it towards you to go forwards - not sure you've thought that one through :p[/QUOTE]

    Disclaimer: I may be trolling a teensy bit here ;)
     
  32. Itguy

    Itguy Well-Known Member

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    Yep - my old 996 Turbo had those, totally ridiculous, rocker switch on the steering wheel up/down for +/- - stupid germans!
     
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  33. veeeight

    veeeight I am a very pretty girl VCDS Map User Black Edition

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    Silly bugger, of course it's not the same thing, it involves a geometric translation! :p



    Only in your mind ;) A DSG gearbox is capable of jumping gears, a sequential gearbox isn't. This gearbox application is manual mode, not sequential. I can go from manual to auto, can't see any sequential box doing that. :p



    Oh, I thought you were just a dinosaur, unable to adapt, like PA :p
     
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  34. lucas-suisse

    lucas-suisse Active Member

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    Hey guys ! Cool down please !!! It's just the very first day of 2015 :) So stay Zen....
     
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  35. veeeight

    veeeight I am a very pretty girl VCDS Map User Black Edition

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    It's OK, I've had too much Prosecco already ;)
     
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  36. Bristle Hound

    Bristle Hound Supercharged Moderator Staff Member Moderator Audi S4

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    Been a watching folks

    I'm all for freedom of expression and all that, but come on lets not get personal people

    Its only opinion after all folks
     
  37. veeeight

    veeeight I am a very pretty girl VCDS Map User Black Edition

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    Um

    It's been pretty civil thus far, with a bit of banter?

    No need for any heavy handed-ness surely. Light touch moderation and all that...... ;)
     
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  38. Bristle Hound

    Bristle Hound Supercharged Moderator Staff Member Moderator Audi S4

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    Again thats an opinion, yours I may add

    Just trying to 'catch it' before it get out of hand, as it has done in the past IMHO

    & I have the last say! ;)
     
  39. lucas-suisse

    lucas-suisse Active Member

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    Once again stay in peace you guys !!! It's JUST about cars !!! ahahahahah
     
  40. lucas-suisse

    lucas-suisse Active Member

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    Agreed ! :)
     

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