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S3 chipped-What are the essential mods

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by keendean, Mar 21, 2006.

  1. keendean

    keendean Member

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    I want have my S3 remapped by Jabba, what are the essential mods engine wise?

    Is the TIP a must any other pipes a must?

    If I'm getting it mapped is it worth smoothing the air box internals and removing the snorkel from within the wing? I've looked at CAI's but these are expensive and don't give good gains?
    I want only mods that are going to make a difference or which are absolutely essential

    Is the std Dv ok with a remap?
     
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  3. C_Audiboy

    C_Audiboy Vroom Vroom

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    I'm getting mine remapped on Monday..... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yes.gif

    As far as I'm aware the 'essential' mods to go along with the remap are the intake pipe (as this is prone to collapsing due to the extra power) and the diverter valve. Both are being done at the same time as the remap on mine.

    I'm sure someone will come along who's had a remap for a while with some more info......
     
  4. MattS5

    MattS5 Active Member

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    Didnt have any hoses replaced when I had mine done, apparantley the SEAT's suffer more from collapsed pipes.
    I did have the DV changed to a Forge though, not beacuase it was faulty, but they are prone to failure anyway.
     
  5. keendean

    keendean Member

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    The std valve fails or leaks if not replaced? Or does not work as well? Would it be cheaper not to buy just a new OEM dv when it did/does fail? Thanks


    Btw-Who is mapping it? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  6. C_Audiboy

    C_Audiboy Vroom Vroom

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    [ QUOTE ]
    The std valve fails or leaks if not replaced? Or does not work as well? Would it be cheaper not to buy just a new OEM dv when it did/does fail? Thanks


    Btw-Who is mapping it? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    My understanding is the OEM DV is prone to failure anyway so a good time to change I think.... I've opted for a Forge DV but many simply buy another OEM part when it does fail. The forge will be more durable, and looks better /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

    I'm getting it mapped at Star Performance this coming Monday. I'm taking advantage of their March offer of £300 for custom code and RR session!!! Sounds like a deal to me and I can't wait.

    BRING ON MONDAY /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/woohoo.gif
     
  7. keendean

    keendean Member

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    Sounds a bargain, if only I lived up north /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    Let us know how u get on
     
  8. nervus

    nervus Well-Known Member

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    What kind of chip do Star offer? Is it the APR one?
     
  9. S3Steve

    S3Steve Active Member
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    Jabba normally recomend you upgrade the DV after a remap, atleast they did after mine but I had already fitted a Bailey DV off my old A4 TSport. They sell the Bailey DV's from stock so you could get them to fit it at the same time as your remap. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
     
  10. Ess_Three

    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    What kind of chip do Star offer? Is it the APR one?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I believe it'll be a bespoke re-map...Jim has been doing them for a while now, with good results.

    He can also tailor the torque delivery to suit the customers requirement.
    Jim's own S3 was very linear...
     
  11. ChriS3

    ChriS3 hud at ye bam

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    [ QUOTE ]
    What kind of chip do Star offer? Is it the APR one?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The Star chip is one of Jim's own. He has a bunch of different ones, but the one he's using just now is good. 1.4 bar and a realistic 255-260bhp.
     
  12. C_Audiboy

    C_Audiboy Vroom Vroom

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    What kind of chip do Star offer? Is it the APR one?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The Star chip is one of Jim's own. He has a bunch of different ones, but the one he's using just now is good. 1.4 bar and a realistic 255-260bhp.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Sweeeet /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
     
  13. nervus

    nervus Well-Known Member

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    In real world on the road performance, how would you expect a star 255-260bhp to compare with a Jabba 270-275bhp S3?

    Do you think this is just down to rolling road variance? Seems strange how Jabba are the only mappers who claim 10 - 15bhp more than everyone else.
     
  14. s3ilver

    s3ilver New Member

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    I think changing the standard air fliter to a k&n would be good idea
    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  15. keendean

    keendean Member

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    I'm going for an uprated diverter valve, TIP, and a CAI, all before it gets mapped.

    These mods should help a bit.
     
  16. ChriS3

    ChriS3 hud at ye bam

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    [ QUOTE ]
    In real world on the road performance, how would you expect a star 255-260bhp to compare with a Jabba 270-275bhp S3?

    Do you think this is just down to rolling road variance? Seems strange how Jabba are the only mappers who claim 10 - 15bhp more than everyone else.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I don't want to take anything away from Jabba, as everyone who has had one of their remaps seem to be pretty happy with it, but I'm not sure if simply upping the boost and giving it a remap will honestly give you anywhere near 270bhp - not all rolling roads are the same.

    I have a pretty good remap - there's few in the business with as much experience as Jim at Star. I also have Forge silicone hoses everywhere, a BMC carbon airbox with direct feed, a Forge Eliminator DV, and I think I'm lucky if I'm pushing 265bhp. Even with a good FMIC, N75, exhaust and cats I doubt if you'd get to 275bhp.

    Star seem to have the lowest claimed outputs on their remaps, but they have one of the best rolling roads in the country - go figure!
     
  17. ChriS3

    ChriS3 hud at ye bam

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    [ QUOTE ]

    I think changing the standard air fliter to a k&n would be good idea
    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Sorry, bad idea - you'll be sucking in hot air and have absolutely no power gains.
     
  18. madvw

    madvw Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]

    I think changing the standard air fliter to a k&n would be good idea
    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Sorry, bad idea - you'll be sucking in hot air and have absolutely no power gains.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    only with an K&N induction kit. A K&N filter replacement wouldn't draw any hot air in as it would use the OEM airbox.

    Performance increases from these aftermarket filters on cars with less than 300bhp has yet to be proven on this forum as well.
     
  19. god_thats_quick

    god_thats_quick Numptie of the highest order

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]

    I think changing the standard air fliter to a k&n would be good idea
    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Sorry, bad idea - you'll be sucking in hot air and have absolutely no power gains.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Depends you can get K&N panel filters but as others have said it's not the limitation on the car at all. Induction kits or anything that draws air in from the engine bay as you said is a real braindead thing to do in my opinion!
     
  20. Grant

    Grant Well-Known Member
    VCDS Map User Audi RS3

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    The following items have been proven to given very little or no gain at all:

    - Exhaust
    - Sport cats/de-cat
    - Induction kit


    Keep the standard air-box and filter - save yourself up to £150
    Keep the exhaust standard, it's not restrictive - save yourself £500
    Keep the cat in, it's not restrictive - save up to £400


    Now... with that £1000 you've just saved, put that towards getting decent suspension and decent brakes.
     
  21. s3ilver

    s3ilver New Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Sorry, bad idea - you'll be sucking in hot air and have absolutely no power gains.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No you wouldn't suck in any hot air and when your engine demands air its better to have a filter that lets the air flow through as best it can. Don't think the power gain would be that noticable but still think its a good idea. This is IMVFHO of course. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
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  23. s3ilver

    s3ilver New Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    If we're talking about induction kits, then we're sucking in hot air due to the close proximity of the turbo. Unless you have a direct feed from a cooler location. There isn't a lot of cool air flowing around the engine bay and very little comes through the front grille. The airbox/filter are not the restrictive part on the S3, hence no gain in the power. For a chipped S3, the OEM box and filter gives the engine all the air it needs, and from a cool location. It's been proven that there is no benefit in a regular induction kit on a standard/remapped S3 and without a cold air feed, you'll probably get a power loss!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    no I am not talking about an induction kit just replacing original filter with a filter that the air flows better through
     
  24. Grant

    Grant Well-Known Member
    VCDS Map User Audi RS3

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    [ QUOTE ]
    no I am not talking about an induction kit just replacing original filter with a filter that the air flows better through

    [/ QUOTE ]
    You are talking about a K&N panel filter.

    £50 for f**k all! Waste of money!
     
  25. ChriS3

    ChriS3 hud at ye bam

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    Well, be carefull that the nicely oiled filter doesn't ruin your MAF. Still negligable gains...

    Replace the standard OEM one every 10K and you're laughing.

    For what it's worth, the only 'gain' I've noticed with the BMC CDA is a lot more induction noise and the DV now goes pttiissshhh.
     
  26. Mo-S3

    Mo-S3 Member

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    I've heard K&N filters are a bit too oily for the Audi and leave oily deposits on the MAF.
    Personally i wouldnt bother
     
  27. Ess_Three

    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    The following items have been proven to given very little or no gain at all:

    - Exhaust
    - Sport cats/de-cat
    - Induction kit


    Keep the standard air-box and filter - save yourself up to £150
    Keep the exhaust standard, it's not restrictive - save yourself £500
    Keep the cat in, it's not restrictive - save up to £400


    Now... with that £1000 you've just saved, put that towards getting decent suspension and decent brakes.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    [ QUOTE ]
    You are talking about a K&N panel filter.

    £50 for f**k all! Waste of money!


    [/ QUOTE ]


    Grant...you are starting to sound as caustic as me...I'm impressed!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif
     
  28. Ess_Three

    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]

    I have a pretty good remap - there's few in the business with as much experience as Jim at Star. I also have Forge silicone hoses everywhere, a BMC carbon airbox with direct feed, a Forge Eliminator DV, and I think I'm lucky if I'm pushing 265bhp. Even with a good FMIC, N75, exhaust and cats I doubt if you'd get to 275bhp.

    Star seem to have the lowest claimed outputs on their remaps, but they have one of the best rolling roads in the country - go figure!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You can get a genuine 275-280 BHP on a standard turbo - on Star's rollers.

    Mine was...

    On top of the stuff you have, I also had 1 bespoke FMIC, a bespoke SMIC, de-restricted turbo hard pipe (the one round the left of the engine), modified TB, different N75, modified airbox with 4" cold air feed (where the passenger side SMIC used to live), 100 cell cats, exhaust, 1.85+ bar peak boost....and a turbo spinning absolutely flat out, with the injectors pretty much maxxed out.

    I have dyno graph showing 275 - 280 BHP (218 BHP at the wheels BTW!), with 320-332 lb-ft torque.

    And let me tell you...compared to some other S3s claimed by the tuner to make 275+ BHP and 300 lb-ft...it was chalk and cheese.

    Out on interest...I have 20+ dyno graphs for Star's dyno...covering my S3 standard, through every stage of the process...up to the final big outputs.
    It made 211BHP & 208 lb-ft standard...
    Which says a lot about the accuracy of Star's rollers, in my view.

    In fact, every car of mine I've ever dyno'd in standard form at Star Performance has made standard numbers. Accurate? I think so...
     
  29. keendean

    keendean Member

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    320-332 lb-ft torque...Nice

    I'm spending about £725 all in to get between 260-265 not sure on torque, to be spend a little bit more I'm not going to touch that, you must of spent another £750-£1000?

    I have to weigh it up as I have a motorbike too, I guess where do you stop with mods, I bought the S3 after three subarus to keep std.
    If I have to spend £750 max I'll be happy with 270bhp, of your mods above is there any of the mods which were not bank breaking but will make a difference on the road as well as the rollers? Thanks
     
  30. ChriS3

    ChriS3 hud at ye bam

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    My last dyno at Star was only 247bhp & 250 lb-ft (186bhp at the wheels). Haldex no likey!
     
  31. ChriS3

    ChriS3 hud at ye bam

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    [ QUOTE ]
    If I have to spend £750 max I'll be happy with 270bhp, of your mods above is there any of the mods which were not bank breaking but will make a difference on the road as well as the rollers? Thanks

    [/ QUOTE ]

    A remap (£350-500), an uprated DV (£75-100), and a silicon turbo intake pipe (£100) would be where I'd start. Makes a big difference.
     
  32. Grant

    Grant Well-Known Member
    VCDS Map User Audi RS3

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    Ess Three's de-restricted turbo hard pipe made a strange noise! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif
     
  33. Ess_Three

    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Ess Three's de-restricted turbo hard pipe made a strange noise! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeah, I guess it did...
    A sort of shrieking/high pressure air sort of sound...
     
  34. Mo-S3

    Mo-S3 Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Ess Three's de-restricted turbo hard pipe made a strange noise! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    A nice noise or a 'oh sh!t i i hope no one notices me noise?
     
  35. Ess_Three

    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    My last dyno at Star was only 247bhp & 250 lb-ft (186bhp at the wheels). Haldex no likey!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's reasonably fair though...your's is showing 30+ BHP less at the flywheel and about 30 BHP less at the wheels than mine did in it's daftest state of tune...

    I've had similar figures to yours at Star on the 'normal' chipped map (95 octane) and normal N75.

    My old S3 wouldn't dyno on any rolling road I've tried...it always tried to climb out...such was the savage torque delivery as it hit peak boost.

    At a RR Day in Aberdeen, (when David R owned it) the owner of the RR was advised to strap it down well..."I'll not need to do that" was his reply...I've dynod many more powerful cars on here...

    As it climbed out of the rollers and sent people diving for cover.

    "I've never had a car do that before"
    was his retort.

    "You were warned" was the response from myself and David.
     
  36. Ess_Three

    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]

    A nice noise or a 'oh sh!t i i hope no one notices me noise?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    A very purposeful "don't f**k with me" sort of noise.
     
  37. Ess_Three

    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]

    A remap (£350-500),


    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's the one...


    [ QUOTE ]

    an uprated DV (£75-100),


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Does nothing power wise..and makes the car slower to respond on transitional throttle openings.

    Sadly, the standard Bosch DV can't hold the boost when you start pushing the limits of the K04...so you need to change.

    I tried a Forge and an AmD viper...both needed re-building every month or so as they were getting such a savage work out.

    I even tried re-locating the DV to the cold side, after the FMIC (before the TB) to get more reliability out of it...which helped.

    At one point I was running an AmD valve with forge inners...

    Can't even remember what I sold it with...


    [ QUOTE ]

    and a silicon turbo intake pipe (£100)


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Made no difference at all. Looked bling...
    Added no power...despite being told by many 'internet exprets' it would...dyno's before and after...nothing, nowt, nadda.

    I guess it stops the chance of TIP collapse...but I had the old AmD trick of the perforated sleeve fitted to my standard TIP, so it wasn't an issue anyway.

    I don't think a Samco TIP does anything except lighten your wallet.
     
  38. ChriS3

    ChriS3 hud at ye bam

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    My last dyno at Star was only 247bhp & 250 lb-ft (186bhp at the wheels). Haldex no likey!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's reasonably fair though...your's is showing 30+ BHP less at the flywheel and about 30 BHP less at the wheels than mine did in it's daftest state of tune...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I was getting a lot of DV errors and the boost was spiking to 1.79 bar. It was the end of the day and that was the cleanest run we got in. We took it out and Jim's opinion was about 260bhp, maybe a touch over.
     
  39. Ess_Three

    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    320-332 lb-ft torque...Nice

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It was...in the dry.

    But the fact that it went from 70 lbft to 330 lbft in a few hundred revs (you get the idea) it was virtually undrivable in the wet.

    I tended to run it at 318 - 320 lb-ft uising a standard N75.

    It was more drivable...and didn't hit limp mode ever.


    [ QUOTE ]

    I'm spending about £725 all in to get between 260-265 not sure on torque, to be spend a little bit more I'm not going to touch that, you must of spent another £750-£1000?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I wish it was only another £1000 or so

    Bespoke FMIC & pipework £700
    Bespoke SMIC £400
    Hoses and clamps £400
    Cats £1000
    Exhaust £500
    DVs £180
    Several re-maps...
    Lots of my time modifying parts, and buying standard parts to hack about...£who knows


    [ QUOTE ]

    I have to weigh it up as I have a motorbike too, I guess where do you stop with mods, I bought the S3 after three subarus to keep std.
    If I have to spend £750 max


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Re-map, DV (if you must) and modify the airbox.
    Stop there...

    Beyond that, look to brakes and suspension...change the pads and get a full alignment done.

    That'll give you a faster car that you can actually use.


    [ QUOTE ]

    I'll be happy with 270bhp, of your mods above is there any of the mods which were not bank breaking but will make a difference on the road as well as the rollers?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    A lot of the mods made no difference when tested alone...but combined with many other small tweaks, you get a gain...but it's hard to say where the gain came from.

    The modified airbox seemed to work...I wouldn't bother with a K&N..the standard air filter is fine. Although with a standard passenger SMIC in place, it's going to be hard to get a 4" duct from the front of the car into the airbox...easier for me (no passenger side SMIC)

    DV and TIP possibly to save you potential problems...

    Boost hoses aren't worth changing unless you want the 'bling' or are likely to burst the standard hoses (I was) but you'll blow the ICs first (mine were non standard alloy)
     
  40. Ess_Three

    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]

    I was getting a lot of DV errors and the boost was spiking to 1.79 bar.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    What was your torque figure?
    1.79 bar?
    Your engine would have been shutting down on high inlet temps at that, if you gave standard ICs.


    [ QUOTE ]

    It was the end of the day and that was the cleanest run we got in. We took it out and Jim's opinion was about 260bhp, maybe a touch over.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    250-260 is nothing to be ashamed of on Jims dyno...that's good power.
     
  41. ChriS3

    ChriS3 hud at ye bam

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    It wasn't happy on the rollers. There were quite a few aborted runs and a fair bit of tweaking on the laptop. Lots of head shaking from inside the car too...

    [ QUOTE ]
    250-260 is nothing to be ashamed of on Jims dyno...that's good power.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Not at all. I can see why others claim higher figures - it feels faster than that!
     
  42. Ess_Three

    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    It wasn't happy on the rollers. There were quite a few aborted runs and a fair bit of tweaking on the laptop. Lots of head shaking from inside the car too...


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Sounds familiar...


    [ QUOTE ]

    Not at all. I can see why others claim higher figures - it feels faster than that!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think mine felt like it had the power it did. Which was good...
    Others I've driven / been in, that were allegedly running similar power didn't fee like it at all...

    It's such a shame that companies can leave people believing falsely, that their car is making more power than it evidently is.
    No matter...

    My 911 feels faster - because it has a lot more power...but feels slower out of tight corners - because it has less torque than the S3...
    It all adds up to me...
     

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