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s3 bam getting 400hp??

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by bam 20v, May 10, 2013.

  1. bam 20v
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    bam 20v New Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    hi im new to the forum I have an s3 audi 8l bam engine!the 2yrs ive had the car lots of upgrades have been done :upgraded intercooler to fmic a forge one I also did the revo software aswell as purchased the sps dongle,ive had the frieling racing water meth kit installed too!car was making decent power for the std borg warner ko4 turbo now im in search of more power!now ive been getting allot of mixed answers regarding me doing the turbo upgrade to a gt3071 or a gt3076 but I need to know what internal engine mods need to be done!taking into account that I drive this car 2 to 3 times a week!what is the essentials that needs to be done!i don't want people to tell me what they think I would rather have someone tell me from personal experience as I am not yet ready to give up on this car!the current kilowatts im getting on 2 different dynos are 188kw at the fly wheel they don't tell me what that is in hp?
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  3. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    [May 10, 2013]
    Around 252 hp, Rods needed
    #2
  4. bam 20v
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    bam 20v New Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    well if I do the math......im pretty close to that already!what about lowering the compression?i was thinking about putting rods in because I think that they are the weakest link in the engine!what would be a decent brand? and I was also thinking of boring to 2litres but that would cause heat issues due to thinning of the cylinder walls,so im thinking stroker crank instead?whats youre thoughts on this?
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  5. kwistof
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    kwistof South East Events Moderator Regional Rep

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    [May 10, 2013]
    All of these questions have been answered in some great depth already if you use the stickies mate....there are a few people on here running 400+ and there are slightly different ways in going about getting there regards the turbo you finally opt for.

    It's not a cheap target to hit though but it seems as though you have some mods already.

    Take a little time reading through some build threads as well...tuffty has a great example of an S3 running 400+ and has pretty much changed/upgraded everything and carried out all the work himself.
    #4
  6. Scullies
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    Scullies Well-Known Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    have a read through Tuffy's build. Its the perfect example of what you need to know

    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-forum-8l-chassis/76389-my-minor-modding-thread.html

    You have options but upgraded rods are a must and since you got the engine open you may as well throw in some new bits.
    new bearing shells, crank and rod - a must on any rebuild
    new oil pump
    new clutch setup
    new gaskets all round

    then go 2.0 bottom end with stroker pistons, upgraded valve train and some wild cams.

    Then get a custom tune and smash out 500hp :arco:
    #5
  7. Scullies
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    Scullies Well-Known Member

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  8. Alex C
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    Alex C Well-Known Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    so why did you ask
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  9. bam 20v
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    bam 20v New Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    !sorry for asking stupid questions mate!just trying to get some fact as ive spent loads of cash on this car with minimal gains!i have absolutely no idea what the formula for working out kw to hp but I know im close to 250hp so s3 dave said rods upgrade at 252 was a shock to me!!
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  10. Alex C
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    Alex C Well-Known Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    Dave meant you need rods for your 400HP

    no need for rods at 250hp, but if your looking at 300+HP (which you are) then you will need forged con-rods
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  11. bam 20v
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    bam 20v New Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    haha sorry mate I read that completely wrong!!my mistake!i thought you need rods at 252hp I was going to stop driving my car for a bit till I got new rods!!
    #10
  12. bam 20v
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    bam 20v New Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    been searching through the stickies and cant seem to find the rev limitations on the std bam 20v block any one here know what I can rev it to ?because the turbo im buying is going to make power high up in the red zone anyone shed some light?
    #11
  13. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [May 10, 2013]
    With all due respect to the OP, it seems to me you are way out of your depth with what you want out of the car.

    we see so many people appear on forums with all the enthusiasm in the world to make their cars something unique and high powered using bigger aftermarket turbos etc, but 99% of the time they have no idea the kimd of work/parts needed to do it, so these projects pretty much never materialise.

    unless you are getting a shop to do this build, ££££ on top of parts, then you really need to do homework on whats required, what weak points are in these engines, where to source parts, at what price, and what your target is, not just in HP, thats only part of the equation.

    unfortunately for you, its near impossible to spoon feed all the info required, you would need to be the rain man to take it all in. Hence why people have linked some build threads to get you started.
    if you do enough reading, come to informed conclusions, and have a general idea of whats required and what parts go hand in hand, then im sure wel see you back here asking in depth specific questions regarding parts and mods that are unique to your build.

    good luck.


    for a refenrence, i have been on here for 3 years now, 1 of those years i didnt touch my car. It then took a year of reading and peoples experiences to realise what sort of direction i was going to go with the car. The past year, ive spent absorbing info like a sponge regarding big turbo, 400+hp engine builds, and in the past 2 months ive been sourcing, speccing, planning and working on my car/new engine. This is a testament to the work and time and knowledge needed to undertake these things. It is also a testiment to how wealthy forums are for learning resources, and without this place and the builds on here, i wouldnt have attempted it. So get reading!
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  14. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [May 10, 2013]
    P.s. The stickies have LOTS of info on high power builds.

    Regarding revs, you can rev to whatever the hell you want, but more revs means more work. See what i mean, none of this stuff is difinitive!
    #13
  15. bam 20v
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    bam 20v New Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    superkarl is my hero!
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  16. bam 20v
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    bam 20v New Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    dude you should be giving positive advise and don't try to act like you know youre stuff !you speak like youre a main tuner!when infact I know where I want to be and it surely wont take me 2 years to do my build due to the fact im a tuner itune cars for a living however Im not a mechanic and therefore im looking at some 1st hand experience on who has actually done what I want to do!not someone who has a 280hp car who wishes he could have a 400 plus hp car!so if you don't have a 400 hp plus car don't give me any advice because you suck at it and you look weird bru!!get a make over bro!
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  17. bam 20v
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    bam 20v New Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    1 last thing I came to this forum all humble acting like I know absolutely nothing so I don't step on toes when infact on the tuning side I know allot!i just have hit a wall with different things ive tried and different maps ive used now im in need of assistance and I get this **** from you!stuff you buddy!youre an as@#$%!!
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  18. Paradox1
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    Paradox1 Active Member

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    [May 10, 2013]

    :wtf:
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  19. coatesy
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    coatesy poking badgers with spoons

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    [May 10, 2013]
    /rage quit

    Well I see everyone is getting along nicely in here...
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  20. kwistof
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    kwistof South East Events Moderator Regional Rep

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    [May 10, 2013]
    Trololololololol
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  21. CharlieRCupes
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    CharlieRCupes Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    Haha you obviously have no idea what you are talking about 'bru'
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  22. kwistof
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    kwistof South East Events Moderator Regional Rep

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    [May 10, 2013]
    LMFAO- Gets even better

    First you say you came here looking for advice on a big turbo and what you need for the internals on an engine and now your saying you need assistance as you've hit a wall? If your that good a tuner you would be getting around 300bhp from a maxed out K04 and a healthy engine + decent supporting mods.
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  23. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [May 10, 2013]
    Wow.
    You illiterate moron.

    I gave you advise, and i was polite and realistic. You clearly know very little or you wouldnt be jumping on a forum with 'duhhhhh, how do i make my bam 400 horse powerz??'

    the fact you come out with 'i is a tuner i tune cars for living' makes this 1000x funnier for everyone. You are the ****ing man 'bru', 252hp S3, you ever been offered a job with an F1 team??? I think youd make the cut.

    My original point is that unless you have the foggiest idea what you need you have no hope, and no one is going to sit here spoon feeding you with all you need because 1. Why should they, no one else gets spoon fed how to mod their engine. And 2. Theres far too much info to give you.

    Sho some respect, grow up, learn to read and write, and you might get somewhere.
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  24. Alex C
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    Alex C Well-Known Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    [​IMG]
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  25. bam 20v
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    bam 20v New Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    ok youre right so I don't know much about vag cars but im here to gather info as I said before ive hit a wall and it makes me so angry!im sorry I lost my cool with you however im used to Japanese cars they are muuuuch easier to tune!
    #24
  26. bam 20v
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    bam 20v New Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    my apologies that was uncalled for!hope you can forgive me!
    #25
  27. CharlieRCupes
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    CharlieRCupes Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  28. cecilthesausage
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    cecilthesausage ...It's Never Finished...

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    [May 10, 2013]
    Hahaha..... Schizophrenic or what.... Carry on like that on here pal and you'll get told well and truly to f@ck off back to your Japanese cars.... Us on here with the German marque have etiquette, something you are severely lacking.....lol
    #27
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  29. bam 20v
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    bam 20v New Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    guess I deserve that!sorry once again!
    #28
  30. kwistof
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    kwistof South East Events Moderator Regional Rep

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    [May 10, 2013]
    How about starting again....

    Hi and welcome to ASN...

    What mods have you done on your S3? I realise you listed a few up top but anything else like TIP/induction kit etc?
    #29
  31. vfr800
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    vfr800 Active Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    Dude I think your keyboard is broken ... return, comma and full stop keys?
    #30
  32. bam 20v
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    bam 20v New Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    well ok ill start again!i have a s3 audi 1.8t bam engine 2002 model since ive had it ive basically given it to my wife to use!i had a supercharged s2000 Honda , now that's fooked!so I started looking at tuning this s3 after all it is turbo charged car and an engine is an engine.....or so I thought!this has been a very tricky car to work with as every time ive mapped it I have an issue with the haldex system or the dbw!now the list of mods thus far are as follows:down pipe 63mm then the de cating of the car then I replaced the tip with one from forge aswell as intake pipe then I fitted a forge fmic then I fitted the splitter type forge valve instead of fully recirculating one!then I blew up the turbo so I sourced a new ko4 and fitted that then seeing that I had the head off I fitted a new cambelt and tensioner too!after that I did the revo software which made the car run allot better!then the car started to suffer from heat soak!so I added a frieling racing water meth kit which imho is brilliant cos I could advance timing !then I loaded a few race fuel maps onto a revo sps which let me advance timing even more !now the car runs decent at 188kw when I use race fuel I have one issue.......I need more power the k04 is maxxed out all I need to know is basically ive been researching the gt3076 turbo I have a few of the supporting mods like a sachs clutch kit I have uprated valve springs aswell as a 0,8mm top mount manifold and now the issue I have tried to map this exact setup on a tt and the haldex was a problem aswell as the dbw!are there managements aftermarket or a piggy back chip like a smt6 chip that I could splice into the std management that will allow me to confuse the haldex and dbw signals??im from cape town south Africa and believe me ive tried to find the answer here and nobody seems to have a clue!every answer is the same "buy a golf 6 gti" and im getting frustrated by this answer!so with that said now can anyone shed some light??ps:sorry for loosing my cool earlier!my humblest apoplogies I didt mean to offend anyone!
    #31
  33. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [May 10, 2013]
    You havent offendes anyone, youve entertained us.

    Well your ko4 isnt maxed out, 300hp is doable if its new and you have the right supporting mods.

    The standard bosch management is also all you should ever need. What parts do you have for this 3076??? Thats a 500hp turbo.
    Youl need rods, block hone, rings, bearings, consider arp fasteners. At least 800cc injectors really to cover the turbos capabilities. A fairly large external wastegate, decent manifold, 3 inch downpipe and exhaust.
    Then youl need some head work because that turbo will take some revving to make its peak power, so guides, seals, titanium springs and retainers, inconel exhaust valves. Large port head would prob see its potential too.
    3076 would be more suited to a 2.0l stroker, i certainly wouldnt spec one for a 1.8, in which case you'l need a block bore, oversized stroker pistons, tfsi crank, along with the modifications needed i.e. Trigger wheel and gear.
    #32
  34. bam 20v
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    bam 20v New Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    one last thing,i am worried about the block being able to withstand the rpm!what I mean is a bigger turbo is only going to start spooling at 4500 rpm ,so my concern is it will only start coming off boost at roughly 7300 to 7500 rpm can the std crank handle that type of load I know for a fact the rods cant!taking into account I will be lowering the comp ratio aswell so this concernes me!any info here would be awesome!
    #33
  35. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [May 10, 2013]
    The stock crank is forged, they have been pushed HARD in terms of power, and at 1.8 displacement (stoke stroke) can rev very high, and is only limited by the head and headwork/valvetrain.

    A stroker arguably camt rev as comfortably high due to the rod ratio, but people still take them to 9k+, again very much decided by the headwork.

    bottom line, with a 3076 youre gping to want to do headwork to rev and be reliable. Otherwise its a waste of a turbo imo.
    this also depends on the hotside you choose as to when it spools/peaks.
    3071 is the better mid level turbo really, can be run at high levels and with the right hotside wont need to be revved so high to make good figures.
    #34
  36. bam 20v
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    bam 20v New Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    hot side you mean the exhaust side?so .60 and t25 flange is too big then!thanks for the info mate!guess ill have to get a gt28rs or a gt3071 then!
    #35
  37. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [May 10, 2013]
    As far as i know a t25 .60 doesnt exist, especially not for the 3076. That would be **** on that turbo. Needs to be T3, .63 or .84.
    #36
  38. bam 20v
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    bam 20v New Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    sorry meant .63
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  39. bam 20v
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    bam 20v New Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    im going to send this turbo back to the turbo exchange ,I think you are correct then regarding the size of this turbo ill pop by there tomorrow and get a gt3071 that way it will be cheaper option for me as I will be doing this build in stages!
    #38
  40. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [May 10, 2013]
    3071 sees 400 easy with the right supporting spec.
    3076 is a bit overkill for 400, you wouldnt be using it to its full potential, which is why i think it wpuld be a waste.
    you need to read up on these builds and the sorts of figires people got, and spool time and at what displacement.

    I chose gtx2867r to see me to 400hp. .63 hotside, should see peak power before like 7500rpm, where i would dare take stock valvetrain to the max.
    #39
  41. bam 20v
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    bam 20v New Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    thanks superkarl!thats more or less where I want to be!seems you do know youre stuff when it comes to turbo size!once again my apologies for earlier mate!i appreciate youre help!
    #40

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