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S3 as fast as they say?

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by Dazenator, Jun 2, 2009.

  1. Dazenator
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    Dazenator New Member

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    [Jun 2, 2009]
    Has anyone ever taken their S3 back to the dealer to check if it's as fast as it says in the brochure?
    I was expecting 0-60 in approx 5 &1/2 seconds but it doesn't seem anything like that.
    I expect to leave cars such as a BMW 530d, Golf GTi etc but they almost always stay with me.
    Is there a test that they will do for me?
    Thanks
    Daz
    ps. Preston Audi is my local centre
    #1
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  3. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 2, 2009]
    The 0-60mph times can be quite difficult to recreate, and require a good traction surface (like a drag or race strip), moderate condition, and a healthy dose of revs before side stepping the clutch (useful info learned from Caney!).

    The figures they quote (like the MPG), are a guide. With Revo Stage 1 I managed 5.44s at GTi International in 2007, but you have to be prepared to be fairly brutal.

    Multiple episodes of this kind of driving WILL kill your clutch / drivetrain etc..., so be warned!

    The dealer will have no testing equipment, or obligations to prove the car can do the speeds. Personally, out of the box in OE form I do not think the S3 is that quick by todays standards.
    #2
  4. klauster
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    klauster Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 2, 2009]
    I completely agree with that.

    You need to look at a remap to make it feel anything like a hot hatch imho
    #3
  5. Khufu
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    Khufu Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 2, 2009]
    is it brand new? The engine will need to be run in to loosen off 1st, other than that there could be something amiss. You would need to try it against another S3 i guess.
    #4
  6. Jamiekip
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    Jamiekip Member

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    [Jun 2, 2009]
    Also - what's to say the GTi you couldn't shake and BMW 530d weren't chipped and therefore far more capable than you're giving them credit for?
    As said by the others - a remap is required to really release the cars potential. GIAC or Revo are the way to go :)
    #5
  7. Dazenator
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    Dazenator New Member

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    [Jun 2, 2009]
    its just over a year old and has done over 20k so the engine must be worn in.
    I've considered having something done but doesn't that affect warrenty issues? I use it for work, hence the high milage, so I have to be carefull
    #6
  8. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 2, 2009]
    Could it not be that they were just better drivers :tumble:
    #7
  9. Dazenator
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    Dazenator New Member

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    [Jun 2, 2009]
    Not at all!!
    This was straight line stuff
    Does anyone know the score with the dealers and revos?
    #8
  10. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 2, 2009]
    The Audi dealer I had my car off recommended it so I had it and haven't looked back since...........only to see the other car racing me ;)
    #9
  11. Jamiekip
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    Jamiekip Member

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    [Jun 2, 2009]
    With a GIAC map you can swap between the latest stock OEM map and their remap.
    The flash count on the ECU stays at whatever it last was, so unless the dealer really wanted to find out if you had a map they would never know. I've had it on mine for about 16 months now with no issues.
    I think GIAC are the only one's to put the latest stock OEM map on the car in order to prevent dealers from flashing back over your remap ;)
    #10
  12. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [Jun 2, 2009]
    A std S3 is faster than a std Golf Gti (assuming Mk5 and), in all conditions and scenarios. End of.
    Ive had both in both std and REVOd states of tune so I know this 1st hand.

    A REVOd Gti is an impressive car and will stick with a std S3 once up and running but never from a standing start.

    But a REVOd Gti will NOT stick with a REVOd S3 unless the Golf is an ED30, and even then it will need to be up and running.

    When you buy an S3 (and GTi for that matter) you only get 70% of the car you should be getting.
    Its up to you to spend another £500 to get the other %30.

    But its worth every penny IMO.

    Get it remapped (REVO or GIAC) but for piece of mind obtain the appropriate switch so the car can be returned to a standard map for dealer visits.

    Both great cars BTW!

    Cant comment on the 530d, will let you know in 20 years when Im old enough for one.......:drag:

    Happy mapping, you know it makes sense.
    Ideal if you get a run out in one of the AS guys cars, or even get yourself the free 5Hr trial.
    Auldreekie might be able to chip in here?

    FWIW, mine has REVO Stage 1 only, and runs my my mates E46 M3 pretty close up through the gears.

    Food for thought.:icon_thumright:

    Cheers
    Paul
    #11
  13. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 2, 2009]
    Paul that sounds good but I did an Edition 30 at Inters last year in my 02 S3 was Revoed all the way though;)
    #12
  14. Jamiekip
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    Jamiekip Member

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    [Jun 2, 2009]
    :iagree: sums up my thoughts perfectly :D
    #13
  15. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [Jun 2, 2009]
    Hope you told him your car was standard.

    He will still be scratching his head now.......:)
    #14
  16. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 2, 2009]
    he vowed to get shot of it immediately,I geniunely felt sorry for him:(
    #15
  17. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 2, 2009]
    Remember that when up and running your car should gently pull away from a 530d, but it takes serious power to leave a car for dead when your up at the legal limit. With Revo Stage 1 + mods, an RS4 only gently pulled away from our S3 on a straight drag (even with 100bhp more). It is heavier, BUT you ave to consider aerodynamics, turbo heat soak in petrol cars. You will not murder anything with a turbo and a decent cubic capacity, unless you have a big turbo conversion, WMI or nitrous.

    It's worth running down to the dealer and getting them to hook up VAGCOM to see if you are running any DTC's, and if not , and you are still concerned, seek out a good local independent and get them to spend an hour checking the car on a driven run with VAGCOM (do some logs). Audi aren't great at fault diagnosis unless something is broken, and don't seem to be able to conduct good research on test drives. Had my car for 6 days, and in 45 mins I located a faulty spark plug by trial and error (I must be an Audi master technician in a parallel universe....NOT!).

    Appreciate its an expensive car and you want it to perform as such. You do get rogue cars that can be slightly underpowered. Engines are not blueprinted, and although quality control should be way up on where it used to be, engines can vary by +/-5% in outright performance depending on how well they were built / run in / serviced etc...
    #16
  18. Jamiekip
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    Jamiekip Member

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    [Jun 2, 2009]
    You could also visit someone with a rolling road. Your North West, so Prosport or Awesome have decent 4wd rolling roads... I can vouch for prosport as I got what seemed a realistic rum of them (and within 1 bhp and 2lb/ft of another rolling road).
    At least that way if your car is turning out lower figures you have something to help build your case with your Audi dealer.
    #17
  19. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 2, 2009]
    second the advice of Jamie and the rolling road of Prosport as they are true,new S3's underpower are rocking horse poop in my experiance though but a bad un could get through.
    #18
  20. AuldReekie
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    AuldReekie Member

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    [Jun 2, 2009]
    Daz,

    I have absolutely no hesitation in concurring with the posts above RE: the out of the box S3.

    Without digging up old ground, I was pretty much in a similar frame of mind to you about the standard performance. I have never mapped/modded a car previously, so was hesitant - and perhaps sceptical - as to how mapping could make such a difference. But after a gentle (ahem) nudge I took the plunge and opted for the 5 hr free REVO trial as Paul said earlier; after all, what's to lose?

    Long story short - my wallet was certainly lighter last month.:eyebrows:

    The increase in torque in where the money is at and should not leave you feel wanting the next time you have a tussle with a Diesel.

    As for what map, that is up to you. What I have noticed on ASN is that those with maps are equally happy with their respective products and are happy to provide unbiased opinion. If you do decide it is right for your circumstances then there will be someone here to sound off on and give plenty of advice.

    To my mind, it is just a shame that Audi didn't take car of this for me. Little monkeys.
    #19
  21. Jamiekip
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    Jamiekip Member

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    [Jun 2, 2009]
    Sound advice there - what I would say is buy from somewhere local to you just in case you do have any issues.
    So, if Revo is nearer that would be the sensible option, if GIAC is nearer ditto!
    Both maps are proven and will put a smile on your face.
    #20
  22. VRStu
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    VRStu Just Looking VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 2, 2009]
    Of course driver ability makes a difference, I happily admit I can't so standing starts for toffee so there are a great many cars that can leave me for dead in a straight line.

    One of the car mags sums it up quite well with a little quote in their buyers guide - 'Brutal point to point'
    #21
  23. Dazenator
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    Dazenator New Member

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    [Jun 2, 2009]
    Thanks everyone and especially thanks to Jamiekip.
    I think its possible that Warrencox worked at Nasa at some stage in his life, serious knowledge.
    #22
  24. firebobby
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    firebobby Member

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    [Jun 3, 2009]
    It's the same old story I'm afraid, yes on paper they seem quick, but as has been said you have to rag the arse off you're motor to attempt to get the posted figures....(D.S.G. accepted!) Also a 530d will be very very quick midrange, my old astra (dtuk boxed to 190/300) was quicker than both my evo's and scoobs at certain speeds purely down to less power losses of 2wd v 4wd! It's horses for courses, through the twisties, or on a wet road, the s3 will eat most 2wd cars, as will most performance 4wd cars. Don't get hung up with traffic light grand prix's, There is more to driving quickly than standing starts. Case in point, my lotus elan se. quite quick in a staright line (6.5secs -60) through the twisties though (driven properly!) it will leave 80% of today's hot hatches for dead, and has done!! much to their distain...
    regartds
    dave
    #23
  25. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Jun 3, 2009]
    I agree with a lot of what's being said here......the standard S3 is brisk,but not fast,and desperately needs about 100bhp more to make it a properly fast hatch.

    When it comes to diesels though,many so called hot hatches have problems with overcoming the diesel's huge mid-range torque,and it's this that makes many diesels hard work to overtake,as opposed to top-end power which gives you top speed advantages.

    As standard,the S3 has about 270lbs of torque,whereas a 2L diesel will have at least the same,from lower down,and with virtually no lag.

    As has been said,traffic light GPs are meaningless,and will lead to a new clutch pretty quickly,especially if you're trying to match the manufacturer's 0-60 times,and it's real road driveability that counts.

    Mine feels like a different car after the remaps,and is not only easier to drive with so much more torque,but also faster and better balanced.
    #24
  26. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [Jun 3, 2009]
    Map it, the standard S3 is underwhelming, a remapped one pretty good.

    Spin
    #25
  27. Esox Mark
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    Esox Mark Smoke me a kipper...

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    [Jun 4, 2009]
    I think most of you live on another planet from me. Underwhelming? Far from it IMO! My S3 is plenty quick enough. My last car was a mkV Golf gti (250bhp with a miltek & remap) and my new S3 is in another league to that car in the performance stakes - the difference is with the S3 I can use all my horses, with my Golf, I couldn't. TBH, if I wanted something faster than my S3, I would have bought a different car. I've no plans to remap this car at the moment (maybe a visit to AmD, never say never I guess), as for a change, it does what I what straight out of the box... 60mph in under 6 secs, a ton in under 14 secs and mid-range times (that's the real world performance bit) on par with some pretty fast cars? Does 30mpg most of the time and looks great, handles well, sounds good, grips like a limpet which means you can use the performance, has a loveley interior, I could go on... nah, I'd take it back and get a refund if it's dissapointing you :whistle2:
    #26
  28. Staz
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    Staz is a retronaut Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 4, 2009]
    Speed is relative though Mark. I came from a remapped A3 2.0T and thought the S3 was lacking some low down grunt and felt a bit restrained at higher revs. The remap made a huge difference.
    #27
  29. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 4, 2009]
    Previous car was a Leon Cupra R 225

    Was running:
    Revo Stage 2+ remap
    Forge Front Mount Intercooler
    Milltek full system with 100 cell race cats
    De-restricted charge pipe
    Full Forge silicone hose kit (Inc. TIP)
    Forge 007P DV
    Audi uprated 4 bar fuel pressure regulator
    Audi S3 (8L) front brace
    SEAT Sport Leon touring car intake
    Heat insulated 100mm air flow ducting
    Denso Iridum Spark Plugs
    Dynatwist filter / induction kit with heat insulated jacket
    Retro fitted Audi TT arch liners with air ducts
    Various mounts / suspension / quickshift upgrades etc...

    Guesstimates suggest that car was running well over 270bhp, and when I got to test one of the first UK S3's I was on the verge of cancelling the order and heading off for a BMW M3CS. However knowing Revo can perform miracles I decided to continue my 15 year VAG love affair (that sounds so wrong!).

    I don't dispute it is QUICK, but it doesn't feel QUICK! The over-engineering masks any sensation of speed, and in standard S3 spec my Leon would have battered it. It's a tough call to proceed with a £32k car when you have a more able, cheaper one sat on the forecourt at half the price. Yes the Audi is MUCH nicer, but in standard spec it's at risk of not really being much more than an S-Line in a frock.

    No regrets as they say, but then thank god for remapping agents.
    #28
  30. dc240969
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    dc240969 Member

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    [Jun 4, 2009]
    l had my 3 for a few months, didnt do anything to it. l loved the car, still do. l took it up the roads to Glen Shee and over to Mallaig. Treemendos., is all l can say. Must have been the roads but it felt like a roller coaster all the way. lve done a few bits to it now and l will be going the same route in July. The S3 in bought mode is a beautiful car. Once its had a few tweaks then its a predator.:superman:
    #29
  31. Jamiekip
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    Jamiekip Member

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    [Jun 4, 2009]
    I think Warren and DC have hit the nail on the head.
    The S3 is hugely capable in standard trim, and deceptively quick as it is very smooth and progressive in it's delivery. Mine was standard for 12 months or so.

    Esox Mark - have you had a run out in a mapped S3? You should. You'll immediately feel where it makes a difference. It allows the engine to behave more naturally, rather than feeling artificially limited to get a flat power and torque figure. As the rev's build so does the urgency, right up to the redline. The whole expereince becomes far more enjoyable.... and all for around £500.
    Best money I've spent on my car :)
    #30
  32. Andy_S
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    Andy_S Member

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    [Jun 4, 2009]
    Hi,

    Can anyone recommend a place for GIAC in the North East or Yorkshire?
    #31
  33. AuldReekie
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    AuldReekie Member

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    [Jun 4, 2009]

    Hi mate,

    When I was searching this place was the closest I could find. They are well thought of too. You should ask Spin, he knows them well I believe.
    #32
  34. Jamiekip
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    Jamiekip Member

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    [Jun 4, 2009]
    Statler in Sheffield - Spin used them and can't rate them highly enough ;)
    http://www.statller.com/

    EDIT: Pipped to the post by AuldReekie lol
    #33
  35. AuldReekie
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    AuldReekie Member

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    [Jun 4, 2009]

    LOL, Jamie that is a double Jinx! Dead leg for you this weekend! :jester:
    #34
  36. 10blazin
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    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    [Jun 4, 2009]
    so the best maps are giac or revo is it ???? does anyone know a place neer manchester that does these maps as i dont fancy travelling half way accross the country
    #35
  37. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 4, 2009]
    Revo - Votex in Congleton is a dealer I'd happily recommend. There are dealers and then 'stealers', and Votex have a fair rep
    #36
  38. 10blazin
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    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    [Jun 4, 2009]
    thanks pal beets driving accross the country if i put a full milltech have a revo done and fit a forge air filter what kind of gain will i be looking at ???? alright i know it wont be there with the s3s but it will still be rapid wont it ..does anyone have any idea of the breakhorse power il gain its a 2.0tfsi qauttro thanks lads
    #37
  39. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 4, 2009]
    Got to be adding 50-60bhp at a conservative estimate with that spec mate
    #38
  40. 10blazin
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    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    [Jun 4, 2009]
    revo says about 50 brake so will the milltech and airfilter just produce 10 bhp or does it make more torque im after more torque really i want it rapid whats the best and cheapest way...? just what ive already said ???
    #39
  41. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 4, 2009]
    Exhausts and air filters don't make massive headline BHP figures, they tend to improve the flow rates at high engine speeds, and enable better pick up. They will ensure the torque figures are bolstered, but wouldn't offer more than 20bhp at a rough guess. They just go to add to the overall effect, but these days I wouldn't change an exhaust until it needed changing as the newer ones are far less restrictive than they were 10+ years ago.
    #40

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