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S3 APR/GIAC/REVO/CC REMAPS

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by MancDave, Jul 30, 2009.

  1. MancDave
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    MancDave Member

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    Hi chaps as you know im a bit of a new kid on the Block:anbet:

    I will be getting a Remap of the sooner rather than the later:thrashi:

    Now ive been reading no end through nearly every thread in the S3 AREA 121 threads or so.. :detective2:

    Ive also been through Custom-Code, REVO , GIAC , APR Websites and read No end ,, so as we see im willing to read before posting ..:whistle2:

    But anyhows Although im so tempted by a REVO due to the upgrade path stage 1,2+ and the consistent great reviews.:meeting:

    I Have Awesome GTI within 10-15mins drive away and they MAP ,,APR Software now all the figures add up nice as good as REVO and or GIAC??

    So let me ask all you wise folk why not so many people here using APR if any ?:uhm:

    Can i have your comments please?:friends:

    Is it because of your location or am i just missing something.:rtfm:

    Although ive read some seriously interesting threads none give me Enough INFO on this area .:confused:

    So if you don.t mind me old chinas please feel free to open a friendly Debate.:friends:

    Anyone APR'd with a S3 care to comment that would be interesting.:racer:.

    Sorry Guys but im fascinated and eager to get all your imput on this matter:sos:

    I have to Go for the best overall map as im not made of money and don.t want to be having to do it twice:asskicking:
    #1
  2. kaz219
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    kaz219 Active Member

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    Awesome do a trial map - might be worth trying that.

    i had a LCR with the apr stage 2 and it was efffin quick, smooth, lots of top end power/touqey - the whole smack!

    If i had a S3, it would definitly be Revo/Apr.
    #2
  3. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    APR used to get more of a mention on ukmivs forum.
    However I wouldnt bother tbh.

    Im not suggeting in any way that APR isnt a good product (I simply dont know) but REVO is tried, tested, proven, has a great dealer network and excellent aftersales record.
    Whats to think about?
    Procrastinate no longer and go and get that missing 30% of S3 AUDI didnt give you.

    cheers
    Paul
    #3
  4. MancDave
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    MancDave Member

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    Yep "im gasping Maxine to release the 30%"

    You think it would be worth going for the APR Trial , then the Revo Trial day after is this even possible?.. It sounds daft and messing around but ive always been told im too impulsive..

    Do APR map the style the same as Revo as ive heard this rumour in threads. More or less the same style of MAP :aggressive:

    Wish i could see some dynoplots of both REMAPS for the S3:cool:

    Have a look athe powerband and delivery:yes:
    #4
  5. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I've been using Revo for 5 years or so now. Three Revo'd cars (one diesel, 2 petrol), and for me the Revo product works well for a number of reasons:

    1) Great product:
    Revo always go the extra mile when trialling and testing their product. Their will to provide the best product often extends to making their code work around OE 'glitches'. For instance on the old Leon Cupra R there was a fault in the OEM coding where cars were going into limp mode in some cases when the temperature dropped below a certain temperature. To resolve it you would have to stop and recycle the ignition. Who was the first tuning house to resolve this?!?! Revo!
    They worked wonders with stage 2 map on the Leon getting linear power right across the pedal stroke, and were highly attentive to customer feedback during the production phase of the code.
    When you meet the guys (Kev/Carl/Nick etc..) at the shows, they treat you like mates rather than customers. It's no accident I know them on first name basis, they truly are decent blokes.

    2) They are a UK company
    Buying from Revo is like putting a pound back in the UK cashpot. Although it has grown into an international business, the core of their business is UK based so you're buying British. It also means you can visit the Revo HQ in Daventry. They are currently developing an improved tuning centre in Daventry to offer further bespoke tuning packages, meaning you get to consult straight with 'the horses mouth'.

    3) Upgradability
    Revo software (like some others) is stageable, and can be tweaked up should your requirements / circumstances change.

    4) Select+ switching
    The Select+ switch is a great little tuning module to select safe parameter adjustments for your map. It also offers enhanced security by making the car 'undrivable', and you can turn the map off for dealer visits

    5) Testimonials
    I don't think its any accident that some of the most capable cars (BigAndy / JonnyC / VTEC abuser etc...) are running Revo. If you are serious about tuning you can gain a very bespoke service from Revo, and even those of us who have to pay some adherance to the word 'budgetting' still find their products exceptional. I've had 2 maps on the S3 now (one not Revo - a long and painful story), and the Revo map is more urgent, potent, and consistent without any associated sacrifices. I'm yet to meet anyone who doesn't appreciate their product once bought, and at Audi Driver International in 2007 I took a punter out for Revo who had a standard S3 (after previously owning an Evo 8). He passengered in my car and came back saying that my (stage 1) S3 had far more of the magic of his old Evo. The next week he purchased Revo code.

    6) Choose carefully
    At the end of the day it is a long term decision, and it's not cheap. The BHP per £ you get from a remap is the best money you can spend on the S3 (as it can handle the extra power easily). There are others out there who may be more local to you (Awesome with APR, and maybe JBS with Custom Code a bit further South of you), so don't discount these. I tend to find if you visit a tuning house and forge a relationship with them (to see if they float your boat so to speak) it can be a great way to decide on the upgrade path to take. Remeber you need these guys there for you if anything goes wrong, as the dealers WILL NOT WANT / BE ABLE to help you in a lot of cases, so choose carefully.

    Best of luck mate, you're obviously doing your reasearch.
    #5
  6. Jamiekip
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    Jamiekip Member

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    TBH - everyone I know has gone either GIAC or Revo on the S3. I think that says a lot tbh. As mentioned, they are tried and tested solutions and have run on cars for a long time now - mine's had it on for probably nearing 20k miles with no issues.

    You'll get plenty of support for Revo on here as they have a huge dealer network and presence in the UK and more csutomers as a result.

    In Warren's useful format, here's my perspective on the GIAC option:

    1) Great product:
    GIAC was introduced to me by JonnyC, as he originally ran it on his S3. At the time it out perfromed the Revo options and was respected for it's headline figures, but more importantly the manner in which it delivered it's power. The GIAC appears to have a far smoother delivery than the Revo without sacrificing top end, so it depends what you want out of the map on your car. The GIAC can be loaded up with several maps, stock, valet, kill, race and can all be switched in seconds with the 'Loader'. GIAC are pretty unique in loading up the latest OEM stock map for your car as well, so should a dealer check your ECU for updates, you should have the latest one on and prevent the delaer from flashing over your remapped hardware. The GIAC unit also maintains the current 'flash count' on the car, therefore you can flash your car as many times as you want from the maps you purchase, and if the delaer checks the flash count, it has not increased at all. GIAC also have an upgrade path for Stage 1, Stage 2 and Stage 2+

    2) They are not UK company!
    But don't let this put you off. They are based in the states and have a very strong and loyal following over there. They are VAG focussed, so do VW, Audi, Seat, Bentley and Porsche. They're typically not first to market with their product, but that's more to do with the amount of effort they put in to the maps in the first place.Statller near Sheffield would probably be nearest to you, and everyone who has used them has given very good feedback.

    3) Upgradability
    As mentioned, there is an upgrade path for GIAC also taking you from Stage 1 through to Stage 2+ - these upgrade maps can be easily added to the existing programme for a small fee.

    4) Select+ switching
    Not available on GIAC, but not something I personally am intersted in. I haven't got VAG-COM so don't really want to run test and analysis to establish the best set up - I want plug and play and something that is developed to run in safe parameters without me ruining it! Others however, love this extra bit of tuning potential...I call them geeks ;)Just kidding :)

    5) Testimonials
    Again, there are a lot of people more than happy with the GIAC from myself, Leon, Spin in fact it was JonnyC who introduced most of us to it from when he ran it on his S3 at which point I believe it was one of the most powerful K04 cars in the country.As has already been said - a re-map will unlock the true potential of the car - and when my car was last on a rolling road it was within a few ponies and lb/ft of a Revo Stage 2+ car and a Vag-Check stage 2+ car on the same road on the same day (may car is stage 1.5 lol Stage 1 map, Milltek DP and Sports CAT and OEM back box). Appreciate rolling roads aren't an exact science, but it put where my car was against others in to perspective.

    6) Choose carefully
    Warren speaks wise words here - you should be comfortable with who is doing stuff to your car. As mentioned, the nearest GIAC dealer to you that I'm aware of is Stattler near Sheffiled adn they are very highly regarded.

    To wrap it up though, I think with either GIAC or Revo you will be happy. Everyone that has these maps can feel the difference and is pleased with their purchase as a result.

    Hope the above is useful and offers you balanced view of the alternative.
    Good luck!
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2009
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  7. MancDave
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    MancDave Member

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    Warren Cox and Jamie kip i would just like to thank the pair of you for some valid input there..

    So my Remap will probably REVO nothing against GIAC but just solely on the network there is a Revo Dealer within 10-15 miles in every direction from where i live..

    I have a good converstaion with Mike from Votex apparently there Head mapper, He really seem to know his stuff ,, he answered all my questions extensively , had a lot of time for the call was not pushy or arrogant or abrupt..

    Like people have previously said Customer Service is Key and it Lacks big time in the Car Industry.

    Jamie you have threw a spanner in the works though??

    "Your GIAC mapped S3 made just as much or a little short of REVO2+??? ...lol....:respekt:
    #7
  8. 10blazin
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    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    i had a trial from awesome dave there apr trial it last 6 hours driving time and i can say . it was good i loved it ..

    i wanted to try a revo trial but when i phone stockport they said they dont do the trial for the sportback i thought wtf is that about , just load the damn thing on ...

    id personally if i was you go trial em both or the 3 of them and then you can choose which you prefer im thinking revo stockport but i wish i could trial a map first i was impressed with apr though the car was rapid through all the gears , maybe revo just couldnt be arsed loading it in stockport ,im going to phone the revo dealer in congleton this week and try there ...
    #8
  9. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    they are talking absolute bolex.

    Votex will be able to help you, but if you are having issues contact Revo and they will be able to put you in contact with someone who can help you.
    #9
  10. Jamiekip
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    Jamiekip Member

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    No problem mate.
    Take anything related to a Rolling Road with a pinch of salt, however, here are the results from that day:

    1. Jamiekip - S3(8P) - GIAC, BMC Panel filter & Milltek Downpipe - 321bhp & 311lbft
    2. Dex - S3(8P) - Vagcheck Stage 2+, Evoms, Milltek TBE, APR HPFP, - 331bhp & 325lbft
    3. Greenouse - Edition30 - SC Bluefin ST2, TB Milltek, Carbonio, K&N - 333bhp & 365lbft
    4. Boggym - S3(8P) - Revo Stage 2+, Neuspeed P-flow. Milltek TBE, Autotech HPFP - 323.8bhp & 296.9lbft
    5. Phil Red Edition30 DSG - Green cotton filter and Catback Non Res Milltek-251.9 bhp & 252 lbft

    I was pleased, and the general consneus was the RR was pretty conservative on the 4WD cars fro some reason. FYI - the two Stage 2+ S3's had seen 350bhp on other rolling roads....
    I was pretty happy :yahoo:
    #10
  11. 10blazin
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    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    that's what i thought warren the guy was a **** at stockport it seems in hard times they dont want the costom im gona phone votex that's the one in congleton right ?? if not i will contact revo and gona tell em about the **** in stockport ....
    #11
  12. MancDave
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    MancDave Member

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    I hear you pal :yes:

    I rang the stockport prosport i think as it was the closest !!!,,,felt the same way not interested???

    Phoned Votex Congleton had loads of time for me , very pleasent and helpful:o.k:
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2009
    #12
  13. mattandrew
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    mattandrew Member

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    Reading this thread has just made my decision making even harder. Two good write ups Warren and Jamie thanks.

    Ive fitted a Milltek TBE and a Forge CAI to my S3, I am now in the process of deciding which map to go for. I was initially looking at just the map, but after speaking with JBS/CC they will fit the fuel pump for £310.50 and the stage 2 map would be £442.75 both inc VAT.

    As anyone had much experience with Custom Code, I know Fast,and Furious has CC on his S3. Custom Code HQ/JBS is only 25min drive away from me and they will put the car back to stock any any time for a dealer vist.

    I was originally wanting the switch option but im thinking if the map is set up right in the first place why should I need to alter this.
    #13
  14. Jamiekip
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    Jamiekip Member

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    The switch option (Revo) and flashloader (GIAC) have some more benefits.
    The ECU's in our cars 'adapt' depending on how they drive. The adjust based on certian paramaters and these can sometimes take the edge off your remap.
    When you have the abiilty to reflash, you reset all the adpatation, so the map behaves as wanted again ;)

    Another benefit, if ever you get a warning thrown up on the car, you can reflash the map and it will reset - if the warning doesn't re-appear you know it was an anomoly and a dealer visit is avoided. If the warning returns, get your car booked in for a health check!

    Simpleeeeees
    #14
  15. mattandrew
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    mattandrew Member

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    I have vagcom so errors are not an issue, would be interested if there is an easy way to clear all the adaption channels. Grrrrrr decisions decisions
    #15
  16. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    Anyone considered APS and their maps, they always get good press and make similar claims to both Revo & GIAC ?

    I am a real fan of GIAC and how it power is produced (super smooth) but I have yet to find a duno that verifies the power claims, Revo on the other hand seems to be on the money but also the most expensive.

    Custom code were and are big players in VAG tuning and were previously Revo dealers when known as JBS, I don't think you will be disappointed by any of the main stream companies, to enforce Jamie's comments customer service is everything so do your research and make an informed decision but do it soon you really are missing out on how the car should have been direct from Audi.
    #16
  17. Jamiekip
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    Jamiekip Member

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    1. Jamiekip - S3(8P) - GIAC, BMC Panel filter & Milltek Downpipe - 321bhp & 311lbft
    2. Dex - S3(8P) - Vagcheck Stage 2+, Evoms, Milltek TBE, APR HPFP, - 331bhp & 325lbft
    4. Boggym - S3(8P) - Revo Stage 2+, Neuspeed P-flow. Milltek TBE, Autotech HPFP - 323.8bhp & 296.9lbft

    Same road, same day ;)
    #17
  18. Boydie
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    Boydie Boycie

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    Would be revo for me as its handiest basically but I am hopefully for England in September in the car so I might broaden my choices if possible!
    #18
  19. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    I was referring to my current car and previous one. My first S3 had the Hammer file installed with no hardware changes apart from a Carbonio intake and it was claimed it would make 330bhp, it made 306bhp but real healthy torque at an Awesome GTi ASN dyno day which lead to the map at the time being dubbed the 'Toffee Hammer' :)

    This never really bothered me as the car was noticeably quicker than standard and an excellent drive regardless of the dyno run.

    When I bought the second S3 I had no reservations as to what software I would choose and initially I only planned to map it with no further mods LOL !! Then I had the usual excellent service from Statller at Sheffield and thought hell why not and had all of the popular hardware installed over the last 4 months of ownership.

    The car has performed faultlessly and goes like stink but I have attended 2 dyno runs over the last 3 weeks with the following results...


    Run 1 - Evolve at Luton, Dyno Dynamics BMW Event ..

    Car was running GIAC Extreme map (HPFP & Big Intake Map)
    A Modified VF engineering Intake, expected figure 350bhp +
    Evolve are a very proffesional and likeable bunch of Guys who operate a well reputed dyno and it gave good consistent results for all other attendees my car = 315 bhp & 360lb of torque.

    The Guys at Evolve drove the car after the run and commented on just how quick it felt considering the power was lower than they would anticipate with this set up.


    Run 2 - Scoobyworld at Loughborough, Dyno Dynamics.

    The car had been reverted to Hammer file and VF engineering intake replaced with Evoms.

    I selected this place due to location plus they were inclined to be impartial as they offer no VAG tuning - again great bunch of guys and very helpful.

    Same intake temp on the day of 18 degrees C.

    This time = 311 bhp, 330lb of torque.

    Nice smooth power curve and consistent over the 4 runs.


    I can't help but feel a little disappointed as although the car runs exceptionally well I would expect better peak figures with the amount of hardware installed so I dug back through many of the threads on various forums and the average appears to be around 315bhp from various dyno days with GIAC software.

    I must stress the car drives superb and the money paid is still well worth it IMO I just think the figures may need revising to manage expectations, Steve at Stattller is genuinely amazed at the low figures as the car feels very strong so perhaps its dyno lottery but 2 in 2 weeks cant be wrong.

    Incidentally car run exclusively on either Shell super or Tesco 99.

    Thoughts ?
    #19
  20. Jamiekip
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    Jamiekip Member

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    Ahhhh gotcha! lol at Toffee Hammer
    yeah, I think the original Hammer file was miss marketed tbh. It was simply a version 2 of the Original GIAC file in my book, tweaked to optimise delivery - I believe mid range was a big improvement over the original map, and the hammer adapts better to additional mod's.

    My honest thoughts on your RR results?

    Dyno's a re sensitive to/don't work well with the haldex!
    I have no categoric proof as such, and I don't know the physics behind Dyno's if i'm honest, but this happens everytime at RR days!
    I've attended a couple of GTi RR days with ed30's mapped to similar specs as S3's, and they all calculate way more power and torque at the crank than a similar tuned S3... coincidence???? Who knows, but when something goes so quick, how can it record figures so much lower?

    Like you, I can feel the improved performance in the car, it is a transformation compared to the stock car and is significantly quicker!
    #20
  21. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    I think I may just stop going to dyno's and just enjoy the cars extra perfomance.


    The great thing about GIAC is the car always feels like it can handle the delivery so this hopefully means good longevity.

    I have done a couple of track days even prior to any hardware and the car certainly surprised a few other brands with its performance, I had several owners come over to ask what had been done to the car, time to chill and enjoy.
    #21
  22. Dazzeroo
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    Dazzeroo Member

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    I have had the custom code stage 2+ on my car for 4k and 4 months with not a single hiccup, even the clutch seems fine..i got my cat done in Aberdeen by motorwerks...nice blokes with a good attitude and better custormer service...

    :)
    #22
  23. Rich-xstS3
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    Rich-xstS3 Member

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    Dazzeroo where did you get your map done? Im in Aberdeen aswell and was thinking about going to Star Performance for a GIAC map
    #23
  24. Splathead
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    Splathead Active Member

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    http://giacusa.com/flashloader_handheld.php

    If you have VCDS, then you can use this free software and your cable to change your GIAC map rather than the Flashloader. - Apparently!

    This is the route that I plan to go down.
    #24
  25. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    Very sensible - my car won't be going on any rollers again (unless its a freebie). Its all a big fat nonsense.

    My other input is this: I would challenge the assumption that "smooth" is inherently a good thing. Smooth can be dull (I'm not saying GIAC is dull for one second). When you floor a REVO'd S3 the explosion of power is anything BUT smooth - but it is an "event" which is addictive and spine-tingly and jaw-dropping. The "smooth" factor was the exact reason I steered well clear of GIAC.
    #25
  26. JustCharlie
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    JustCharlie Member

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    If you are looking for Revo in the Northwest I would strongly recommend ADS at Preston, very helpful, friendly and the know their stuff
    #26

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