1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

S3 and Milltek questions

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by AL_B, Jun 5, 2003.

  1. AL_B
    Offline

    AL_B Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    1,573
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 5, 2003]
    Questions for those folks with S3's and Milltek exhausts...

    We all know the performance gains are minimal, so I'm not asking about that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif But..

    Is there a big increase in noise levels in the cabin?

    Does it drone more that the normal exhaust and if so at what revs, approx? What's it like on the motorway? I know I've driven Glens S3 (milltek and Cats) but I was so bowled-over with the performance of the car, I wasn't really analysing the exhaust note etc.

    Has anyone got some rear end pics of an S3 with the Milltek? I can remember seeing some pics a long time ago, and the back-box does hang low and at an angle - which I don't like. I'd prefer the box to be hidden more like standard.

    I'm just trying to gauge whether its a worth while future mod.

    cheers

    AL
    #1
  2. Ads

    Ads

    [Dec 20, 2014]

  3. Drystone
    Offline

    Drystone Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    177
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 6, 2003]
    First mod in the pipeline Al? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
    #2
  4. AL_B
    Offline

    AL_B Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    1,573
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 6, 2003]
    Not really. Just gaining knowledge ready for when I do decided to modify.

    #3
  5. mramage
    Offline

    mramage Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2003
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    4
    [Jun 6, 2003]

    Al, I know what you mean /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    I was having a listen though. I remember it being defintely louder. Probably about on the edge of what I could take on a long distance, but it sounds good when it's opened up /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    #4
  6. DavidR
    Offline

    DavidR Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    1,297
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Jun 6, 2003]
    I have driven a chipped S3 with Miltek system (no cats) and it was quieter than stock inside the car. The owner even complained to the supplier about the same.

    As for fitment, even close up it is hard to tell the difference, fitment on the 2 I have seen is as close to perfect as you can get and certainly not novaesque in any way.
    #5
  7. DavidR
    Offline

    DavidR Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    1,297
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Jun 6, 2003]
    Just read above, i should clarify that I meant no upgraded cats . i.e. cat back system with OEM cats fitted /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
    #6
  8. AndyS3
    Offline

    AndyS3 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2003
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 6, 2003]
    lo Al

    u say performance gains are minimal, but MTM advertise that you will get an extra 15bhp from adding a cat back milltek exhaust with there ecu chipping how do u explain that do they tweak ecu more or is it the exhaust giving the extra power. I agree when u say that the perforamce gains are minimal because i replaced my exhaust on my last car from the cat back and there was no difference.

    http://www.qstuning.com/list_for_car.asp?car=s318
    #7
  9. s8n
    Offline

    s8n Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 6, 2003]
    Well, there are BIG gains to be had. The factory muffler and rear diff place of the pipe restrict flow greatly, I replaced my stocker with a Hitech custom 2.5" cat back and the difference is just amazing.

    Dynoing shortly, I've been told If i dont get 12rwkw+ to bring the car back and for them to take a look as its nearlly THAT certain!

    15bhp would be a piece of piss with a cat back if you were chipped! I'm not even chipped and the difference, as I said is just out of this world!

    pics @ http://gallery.allkris.com/Audis/
    #8
  10. AL_B
    Offline

    AL_B Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    1,573
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 6, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    AndyS3 said:
    lo Al

    u say performance gains are minimal, but MTM advertise that you will get an extra 15bhp from adding a cat back milltek exhaust with there ecu chipping how do u explain that do they tweak ecu more or is it the exhaust giving the extra power.



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yep I know. I've read those figures on qst's site. I can't explain it. I guess a phone call is in order. Maybe if you have the exhaust fitted at the same time as the chip, perhaps they tweak things a little.

    [ QUOTE ]

    I agree when u say that the perforamce gains are minimal because i replaced my exhaust on my last car from the cat back and there was no difference.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yes. I'm going of the experience of one of the regulars on here, Glen (Ess_three), he has the Milltek and Milltek cats. IIRC, even that configuration has minimal gains.

    I guess, fitting the exhaust itself won't give anymore power, unless you have the car tuned to take advantage of it.

    So anyone got any pics? Any other opinions regarding the noise levels in the car?

    AL

    #9
  11. s8n
    Offline

    s8n Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 6, 2003]
    Thats rubbish, you don't need to tune the car.

    Do a TBA on the ECU via the battery and ignition after your Exhaust upgrade and watch your smile /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    #10
  12. AndyS3
    Offline

    AndyS3 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2003
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 6, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]


    [/ QUOTE ] Do a TBA on the ECU via the battery and ignition after your Exhaust upgrade and watch your smile

    wtf TBA???
    #11
  13. AL_B
    Offline

    AL_B Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    1,573
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 6, 2003]
    s8n,

    TBA? Ok, so if the car doesn't need to be tuned, are you saying that there are performance gains? If so how much, in your experience?

    cheers

    AL
    #12
  14. s8n
    Offline

    s8n Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 7, 2003]
    TBA, Throttle Body Erase, or engine readaption. You need to reset your ECU to defaults and erase the non critical DTCs.

    You will notice a MASSIVE increase in power, and then your car will adapt to the increased breathing ability of your engine due to the exhaust.

    My zorst gives between 12rwkw and 14rwkw , dyno proven on paper.

    The TBA is performed like this:

    1) Remove Negative battery terminal and leave off for 20mins.
    2) Return to the car, replace the battery lead and put the key in the ignition.

    3) Turn the key to ACCESSORIES ONLY, do NOT start the car. Leave the car in this state for 5minutes , watch the dashboard DIS and you can see the car going through DIAG mode, oil lights will come on, speedo lights, petrol, and the rest.

    4) You will notice the diag completes. Start the car and leave idle for 5minutes.

    5) Turn the car off, and restart it.

    6) Go for a drive, don't drive like a grandma, give it alot of stick an really work the engine.

    7) All done. You should have noticed a massive increase in power , the ECU will contuine then to relearn or adapt to the engine modifications and changes as well as your driving style. This adaption may take 50kms or 500kms.

    Suggest you do this TBA every time you change any component of the engine.

    This procedure is also documented on AudiWorld

    Hope that helps
    #13
  15. AL_B
    Offline

    AL_B Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    1,573
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 7, 2003]
    S8n

    Cheers bud, very interesting indeed. Thank you.

    Isn't your exhaust a completely custom design though? De-cat'd? Or is that someone else? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    AL
    #14
  16. DuncS3
    Offline

    DuncS3 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    289
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 7, 2003]
    If you buy the Miltek cat back, you do have the choice of not having the middle silencer as part of the kit, so that should be a bit noisier (perhaps)

    Dunc
    #15
  17. RAPS3
    Offline

    RAPS3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,137
    Likes Received:
    113
    [Jun 7, 2003]
    Al,

    Although not a Miltek, I have a Magnex cat back system fitted. It is really quiet and I would have preferred something a little more throaty, but as I've said before it was already fitted to the car.
    If quiet is what you want then why not consider this as an alternative.

    Paul
    #16
  18. s8n
    Offline

    s8n Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 7, 2003]
    Its a custom stainless 2.5" cat back system yes. The majority of the power gains are in the muffler design and also the now , non existant flatened section across the rear haldex diff.

    I am using my standard cats and downpipes, believe it or not according to a source of mine the cat convertors in the S3/TT's are extremely capable! Its the downpipes that pose a restriction, however its very difficult to get a 3" pipe from our turbo due to space constraints.

    The right handle makes it very difficult, imo the factory downpipes and cats are fine, and shouldnt be messed with, it just seems like theres not huge gains from changing this afterall (I suspected there would be , but apparently not). a good, straight through cat back will give you good results! Well, at least in my case.

    #17
  19. DavidR
    Offline

    DavidR Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    1,297
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Jun 7, 2003]
    s8n, the comments that the miltek exhaust system yeilds little power benefits are based on experience and dyno results. Your system is not a miltek, and therefore to claim advice given re the miltek system is "rubbish" is slightly misleading. Interesting to read what the tuner has claimed for your system, but in my experience, until an independant dyno has proven such claims I would not be so confident in my advertisement of a product.

    Appreciated that your custom system is an entirely different product to miltek, but the initial q. here was re the miltek system.

    Cheers

    Dave
    #18
  20. nianmuzik
    Offline

    nianmuzik New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 8, 2003]
    Well I am not sure how useful my information is going to be.

    I used to own a Milltek on my VW Golf VR6 in the US. It's a totally different animal than on the 1.8T. However, i've been around a Milltek turbo-back and a Milltek cat-back + Eurosport Downpipe (DP) on a 1.8T (K03).

    The Milltek turbo-back (with cat) is a nice setup to have. However, if you want a cat-less system with the original DP, then the Milltek cat-back will provide about 10whp. Since you have an S3, I would definitely recommend upgrading your DP to a 3in one, be it Milltek or not. You will see gains of about 20-25whp depending on what chip you have and wether or not you have a Cold Air Intake.

    I do not have dyno graphs to back up my post but you can definitely try asking Milltek UK to provide with real dyno graphs (and not just predictions). I don't know if they have one but it doesn't hurt to try.

    As far as sound goes, it is not an obnoxious sound, actually, it's really quiet yet sporty. You will most likely love the sound of either the turbo-back or the catback system from Milltek.

    Cheers /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
    #19
  21. austurbo
    Offline

    austurbo New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 8, 2003]
    So are we going to see this dyno chart or not?
    #20
  22. s8n
    Offline

    s8n Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 8, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    David R said:
    s8n, the comments that the miltek exhaust system yeilds little power benefits are based on experience and dyno results. Your system is not a miltek, and therefore to claim advice given re the miltek system is "rubbish" is slightly misleading. Interesting to read what the tuner has claimed for your system, but in my experience, until an independant dyno has proven such claims I would not be so confident in my advertisement of a product.

    Appreciated that your custom system is an entirely different product to miltek, but the initial q. here was re the miltek system.

    Cheers

    Dave

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Whats misleading is you claiming I said Milltek is rubbish, which i clearly did not. You also need to reread my posts, I never claimed the Milltek yeilded low power.

    #21
  23. s8n
    Offline

    s8n Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 8, 2003]
    My results are proven on paper, there are NO CLAIMS. Only results.

    Further the Milltek unit is identical, its a 2.5" system in either resonated or non resonated. The muffler is too, identical as shown here:

    MillTek


    Here is my mates TT with custom (same as my car but with twin tips

    Custom TT unit

    and

    Another

    Here is my S3 exhaust, same muffler just single tips
    My S3 Zorst

    This one too
    And here..

    Analyse those photos properly you will see them as identical, even so far as the bend in the center. Ours are flanged, and do not use the slip joint for a better seal and easy removal. Muffler design internally is the same!
    #22
  24. DavidR
    Offline

    DavidR Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    1,297
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Jun 8, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    s8n said:
    Whats misleading is you claiming I said Milltek is rubbish, which i clearly did not. You also need to reread my posts, I never claimed the Milltek yeilded low power.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    No, but the implication was that all systems should yeild power benefits and you comment questioned Al's comment re power gains being minimal .

    [ QUOTE ]
    s8n said:
    15bhp would be a piece of piss with a cat back if you were chipped! I'm not even chipped and the difference, as I said is just out of this world!


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm not questioning your individual system, but commenting that you are not comparing like with like and perhaps most importantly referring to the miltek system as was the initial question. However, you do say that the system has not been dyno'd on your car yet and a seat of the pants impression is often an unreliable indicator of raw bhp gains due to changes in noise level, throttle response or torque curve characteristics. I'll be honest here and say that on previous cars I have modifed, a 10-15bhp gain is pretty damn difficult to detect reliably and objectively.

    Whether or not the systems look similar or not, the overwhelming body of evidence here is that the power gains on a straighforward cat back miltek system are minimal, and in order to get increased noise and power, the cats need to be swapped out too.

    Is the system you talk about available in the UK at reasonable cost? I'm sure if this information is correct then there would be several people queueing up for such a system to up the power.

    Cheers

    Dave
    #23
  25. s8n
    Offline

    s8n Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 8, 2003]
    Dave,

    You're wrong.

    Replacing the cat back will give you excellent gains, Ill try and get the dyno's up on this site as quickly as possible.

    Any decent exhaust shop in the UK should be able to get excellent gains from a cat back 2.5" system!

    I've also read on Audiworld countless times tha the Milltek cats made, little or no difference at all.

    If you arent getting 10-15hp from a cat back on a turbo car, theres obviously something wrong.

    A guy I know (Bill ONeil) has a 02 S3, his custom exhaust (same as mine) gave him a massive increase in power, also another guy Vic with a 01 S3 gained 14rwkw. RogueS3 on this board also has the exhaust I have fitted and can also backup these claims.

    Of course im comparing the like with the like, did you even LOOK at the photos?

    Ill get the dyno chart soon so you can eat your words.

    Seems there arent alot of good exhaust shops in the uk if your paying lots of $ for a Milltek system that as you said yeilds low power /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    Suxs to be in the UK heh

    www.hitechmufflers.com.au is the website for our exhaust, I believe they ship overseas.
    #24
  26. s8n
    Offline

    s8n Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 8, 2003]
    Here is Rai's TT that had it done, also on Audiworld

    http://forums.audiworld.com/tt/msgs/893402.phtml

    Alot cheaper than these expensive Milltek systems that apparently yeild low power without cat/dp replacement /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/idea.gif

    And on price, we paid 450quid, or $1150 AUD

    #25
  27. DavidR
    Offline

    DavidR Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    1,297
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Jun 8, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    s8n said:
    Dave,

    You're wrong.

    Replacing the cat back will give you excellent gains, Ill try and get the dyno's up on this site as quickly as possible.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Not the Miltek system, apparently. I cannot remember the figures for EssThrees car now, but it was certainly less that 10bhp. A similar Noggy Blue S3 that runs at a local 1/4 mile has figures of 256bhp pre pipes and 258 post. One could argue that variations of this nature could be due to changing environmental conditions on the dyno, but is sure as hell could not be classed as a "massive" gain and is a costly way of upgrading for little power. My third example is another local S3 (non chipped), 227bhp stock, 232 with miltek - again, it's certainly not what I would call massive. A local tuner who fits the miltek system now points out that power gains are small and the gain can be variable car to car.

    [ QUOTE ]
    s8n said:
    Any decent exhaust shop in the UK should be able to get excellent gains from a cat back 2.5" system!


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I guess its the way they fit them /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    To simply say I am wrong is somewhat insulting in a forum where there are never clear cut answers to questions due to the subjective nature of "acceptable" outcomes in modifications. Each to their own, you beleive that you can gain the world with these mods, I have seen evidence to the contrary.

    Dave

    #26
  28. DavidR
    Offline

    DavidR Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    1,297
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Jun 8, 2003]
    Here is a photo of the UK miltek system. It has an additional muffler, which is standard fare here unless specified without.

    [​IMG]

    Perhaps this accounts for some of the figures, I have to be honest and say I aint crawled under these cars to see if this centre piece is in place or not.

    Its different to the unresonated example you have, and those widely available in the US

    [​IMG]
    #27
  29. XXX_18T
    Offline

    XXX_18T Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 8, 2003]
    Believe it or not s8n ur system is a Miltek system!

    Your wondering how i know this - ask Milan from TCCA /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    Power to you Kris as u guys paid around $1100 Aud vs $3000

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
    #28
  30. mattr
    Offline

    mattr New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2003
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 8, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]

    So anyone got any pics? Any other opinions regarding the noise levels in the car?

    AL



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Pic as requested, I have seen this exhaust fitted on two cars, it fits without the angle you mention!

    Matt
    #29
  31. RAPS3
    Offline

    RAPS3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,137
    Likes Received:
    113
    [Jun 8, 2003]
    Hhmmm Like that MTM badge. Some internet browsing in order me thinks.

    Sorry off topic I know. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue_out.gif
    #30
  32. RizS3
    Offline

    RizS3 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 8, 2003]
    That exhaust looks awfully close to the bumper? i would be worried about heat!
    What about the MTM exhaust system, looks almost like the original audi system, except for the box!

    #31
  33. RizS3
    Offline

    RizS3 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 8, 2003]
    And heres a bigger view!
    #32
  34. AL_B
    Offline

    AL_B Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    1,573
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 8, 2003]
    Wow! This thread erupted a little! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    I quite happy to be proven wrong about my "minimal power gains" comment. As I said that is just what I was led to believe.

    Matt R, Riz,

    Great thanks for those pics. Glad to see that the milltek system back-box is not slanted. I'm sure there was one picture I'd seen at some point in the past where the box was slanted - maybe I was mistaken, or it wasn't a milltek system.

    One thing I still don't like is how visible the milltek back-box is. The MTM one looks a lot better in that respect.

    Finally, if S8n's system is a Milltek system, well, perhaps decent power gains are possible. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

    AL
    #33
  35. RAPS3
    Offline

    RAPS3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,137
    Likes Received:
    113
    [Jun 9, 2003]
    Hey Al,

    It might have been my Magnex that youve seen at the rolling road day.

    I believe I've officlally got a Wonky Box /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/goofy.gif


    #34
  36. s8n
    Offline

    s8n Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 9, 2003]
    Costa, fill me in?

    Im sure its a Milltek design, but its definetly made in Bathurst as a Hitech product.

    I know Milan & Lambros have some 'bad' history..
    #35
  37. s8n
    Offline

    s8n Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 9, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    David R said:
    Here is a photo of the UK miltek system. It has an additional muffler, which is standard fare here unless specified without.

    [​IMG]

    Perhaps this accounts for some of the figures, I have to be honest and say I aint crawled under these cars to see if this centre piece is in place or not.

    Its different to the unresonated example you have, and those widely available in the US

    [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    its identical. You can get ours as either resonated or non, I just got it without. If you are silly enough to get it WITH it then that may account for those small power gains in comparision to what I think is fairly large (12-14rwkw) from my exhaust (which Costa claims to be a Milltek anyway, not that I doubt this claim, Ive seen the Milltek and mine is , as i've said many times, identical)
    #36
  38. DavidR
    Offline

    DavidR Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    1,297
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Jun 9, 2003]
    UK standard spec miltek inludes the centre muffler AFAIK so I dont' think people are being silly just that there is no widely advertised option. I certainly was not offered options re mufflers when looking at systems for the 1.8T and more recently the S4. It would definately account for the different figures that you give to the UK cars /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    I'd be a bit annoyed if I had bought a custom made unit to discover it is actually a rebadged miltek, however, it seems to work on you car so I guess you cannot complain /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    Dave
    #37
  39. Ess_Three
    Offline

    Ess_Three Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2001
    Messages:
    5,383
    Likes Received:
    7
    [Jun 9, 2003]
    I wasn't going to get 'involved' in this...but:

    A few thoughts if I may...

    1.
    I am just not buying a 15ish BHP increase from changing an exhaust on a VAG car...I've never come accross such a gain on ANY VAG car in the past - NA or forced induction...the standard systems are pretty good standard.
    Unless of course someone had shoved a large potato up your standard exhaust just before the before and after dyno testing....the figures in question were of coures done on the same day, on the same roilling road, under the same conditions, by the same operator, with you witnessing weren't they?


    2.
    I got precisely f**k all worth mentioning from my Milltek - as already mentioned...and only a few lb-ft from the cats...on a standard car.
    Therefore, the change is probably not worth doing if you are looking for huge gains.

    On a well chipped car there are definate advantages in having the cats & exhaust....but even when running upto 1.8 bar...there's not a 15BHP increase in changing the exhaust...sorry...I'm just accepting it.


    3.
    Audi S3 cats are a restriction...but not in the way we all assume...they aren't really a huge restriction in flow...but they will ment at the sort of EGTs that a heavily modified S3 will produce...melt the cats and you are up sh!t creek without a paddle. Think of them as an insurance policy.

    4.
    The S3 downpipes are not restrictive to any great degree at any sort of flow levels that the standard turbo and crappy exhaust manifold will allow...there's simply no need to change them.

    5.
    Rolling roads can be made to show any increase you want, given the operator wishes to 'adjust' some of the parameters.
    But who wants a paper increase of say, 15BHP, if in actual fact you got 1.5 BHP...I can have my plots show over 300BHP if I really want...but who am I kidding?
    Am I impressing the lads down the pub, or being realistic with myself?
    I'll stick to genuine / erring on the side of pesimistic for my figures thank you!


    6.
    Seat of the pants dyno means absolutely f**k all. Do it properly, back to back with all the same parameters or the results are completely useless.
    Even back to back testing is at the mercy of the honesty and integrity of the rolling road operator.

    7.
    On a well maintained S3 doing a TBA is worth nowt either...
    Tried it, worth nothing...may feel better, but it's all in the mind. Test it .....you'll see.

    8.
    TBA = Throttle Body Alignment not Throttle Bodt Erase...the clue is in the letters...T B A!

    9.
    The restriction in the standard exhaust (under the axle) on the S3 does not significantly restrict the flow of exhaust gas on a standard car...so you just aren't going to see huge gaing from going up to a 70mm+ system.
    Some gains, yes. Huge gains, No.

    10.
    Evidence in the UK from TT owners who run the Milltek without the centre box shows no real gains from removing the middle box...so that can't be the difference.

    Of course, maybe Milltex just can't make decent exhuasts...but since the old MTM exhaust was made by Milltek, and the route for the Forge exhaust is the same as the Milltek (at the end on the day, there's only room for slight differences in the routing between manufacturers) I just don't see where one company can get 15BHP where the rest of the human race only gets between 1 and 3.
    Strange huh?


    Anyway...there are a couple of other things which may account for the differences.

    Maybe the horses down under are of the partucularly weak variety?

    Perhaps due to some glitch in the Matrix, physics works differently south of the equator?


    Of course, these are my own personal thoughts and views and I'll stand up to be assasinated / insulted for making them public.


    Oh, and my Milltek back box hange down at one side.






    #38
  40. s8n
    Offline

    s8n Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 9, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Ess_Three said:
    I wasn't going to get 'involved' in this...but:

    A few thoughts if I may...

    1.
    I am just not buying a 15ish BHP increase from changing an exhaust on a VAG car...I've never come accross such a gain on ANY VAG car in the past - NA or forced induction...the standard systems are pretty good standard.
    Unless of course someone had shoved a large potato up your standard exhaust just before the before and after dyno testing....the figures in question were of coures done on the same day, on the same roilling road, under the same conditions, by the same operator, with you witnessing weren't they?


    2.
    I got precisely f**k all worth mentioning from my Milltek - as already mentioned...and only a few lb-ft from the cats...on a standard car.
    Therefore, the change is probably not worth doing if you are looking for huge gains.

    On a well chipped car there are definate advantages in having the cats & exhaust....but even when running upto 1.8 bar...there's not a 15BHP increase in changing the exhaust...sorry...I'm just accepting it.


    3.
    Audi S3 cats are a restriction...but not in the way we all assume...they aren't really a huge restriction in flow...but they will ment at the sort of EGTs that a heavily modified S3 will produce...melt the cats and you are up sh!t creek without a paddle. Think of them as an insurance policy.

    4.
    The S3 downpipes are not restrictive to any great degree at any sort of flow levels that the standard turbo and crappy exhaust manifold will allow...there's simply no need to change them.

    5.
    Rolling roads can be made to show any increase you want, given the operator wishes to 'adjust' some of the parameters.
    But who wants a paper increase of say, 15BHP, if in actual fact you got 1.5 BHP...I can have my plots show over 300BHP if I really want...but who am I kidding?
    Am I impressing the lads down the pub, or being realistic with myself?
    I'll stick to genuine / erring on the side of pesimistic for my figures thank you!


    6.
    Seat of the pants dyno means absolutely f**k all. Do it properly, back to back with all the same parameters or the results are completely useless.
    Even back to back testing is at the mercy of the honesty and integrity of the rolling road operator.

    7.
    On a well maintained S3 doing a TBA is worth nowt either...
    Tried it, worth nothing...may feel better, but it's all in the mind. Test it .....you'll see.

    8.
    TBA = Throttle Body Alignment not Throttle Bodt Erase...the clue is in the letters...T B A!

    9.
    The restriction in the standard exhaust (under the axle) on the S3 does not significantly restrict the flow of exhaust gas on a standard car...so you just aren't going to see huge gaing from going up to a 70mm+ system.
    Some gains, yes. Huge gains, No.

    10.
    Evidence in the UK from TT owners who run the Milltek without the centre box shows no real gains from removing the middle box...so that can't be the difference.

    Of course, maybe Milltex just can't make decent exhuasts...but since the old MTM exhaust was made by Milltek, and the route for the Forge exhaust is the same as the Milltek (at the end on the day, there's only room for slight differences in the routing between manufacturers) I just don't see where one company can get 15BHP where the rest of the human race only gets between 1 and 3.
    Strange huh?


    Anyway...there are a couple of other things which may account for the differences.

    Maybe the horses down under are of the partucularly weak variety?

    Perhaps due to some glitch in the Matrix, physics works differently south of the equator?


    Of course, these are my own personal thoughts and views and I'll stand up to be assasinated / insulted for making them public.


    Oh, and my Milltek back box hange down at one side.








    [/ QUOTE ]

    1) Don't buy it, no one is forcing you too. Just because you have never came across those figures, doesn't mean its not possible. www.ozaudi.com, go to the TT section and see what they have to say about changing their exhaust.

    2) You must be pissed after outlaying large sums of $ for f*&k all difference /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif

    3) Its melt, not ment. Like TBA?

    4) I never did..

    5) Dyno is better than no dyno. provided same operator, same settings, same temps. No point in comparing if not done properly.

    6) blah

    7) According to you.

    8) See 3)

    9) It reduces exhaust gas velocity, it combined with the muffler and straight through piping produces good gains.

    10) Makes me wonder why you guys buy exhausts if you don't get power gains.

    #39
  41. s8n
    Offline

    s8n Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 9, 2003]
    Your reply is taking a while... Its in the preview stage now..! Finally /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
    #40

Share This Page