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S3 8L Haldex Issues - Driving like a solid rear diff!

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Jas Lad, Oct 27, 2011.

  1. Jas Lad
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    Jas Lad Member

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    [Oct 27, 2011]
    Hi Guys looking for some advice.

    Basically bought an 2003 S3 8L, first thing I noticed was it was able to spin the front wheels, leading me to believe theres a haldex issue.

    Checked No31 fuse - Perfect
    Checked Earth Strap on diff - Broken - Now fixed
    Check wiring - the small stuff cable that goes in 90 degree bends I believe plugs into the haldex pump was disconnected - I connected

    Now the car drives like it has a fully locked rear LSD, no more wheel spinning but it scrabbles stones etc when doing 3 point turns, or on full lock driving slowly. Obviously the rear diff shouldnt do this.

    Got the car VAGCOM read and showed an intermitent fault with Haldex but not the controller.

    Where do I go from here? I have ordered new haldex oil and filter in the hope that its dirty oil causing the clutch plates to bind?

    Any help much appreciated.

    Thanks
    #1
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  3. Jas Lad
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    Jas Lad Member

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    [Oct 27, 2011]
    Ok small update, went to a carpark and drove in circles, sure as the rear end is scrabbling for grip, however tried the handbrake test and pulled it up one nick, haldex disengaged!

    Is this pointing towards the control unit?
    #2
  4. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 27, 2011]
    This sounds like the haldex clutch pack has seized.... a few others have had this experience too... this is typically because the oil and filter for the haldex isn't changed regularly and the plates stick together...

    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-forum-8l-chassis/135545-haldex-fualt-code.html

    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-forum-8l-chassis/134712-haldex-problem.html

    A search will have picked these threads up...

    Maybe an oil and filter change might help.... either that or replacement haldex unit...

    <tuffty/>
    #3
  5. Jas Lad
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    Jas Lad Member

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    [Oct 27, 2011]
    Can anyone tell me would an 01 VW Golf 4motion's Haldex Controller be the same as my S3 8l?
    #4
  6. Jas Lad
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    Jas Lad Member

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    [Oct 27, 2011]
    See I initially thought this too, but if the clutch has seized how come when I pull the handbrake it is able to disengage it automatically?
    #5
  7. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 27, 2011]
    Under normal conditions the haldex isn't engaged anyway... the car is essentially front wheel drive... the sticking haldex plates could be causing drag on the rear diff... beyond that I have no answer but the car low speed manovoures are not sufficient to engage the haldex so I suspect its the plates sticking and not the controller... if the controller wasn't working then you would not have rear drive...

    <tuffty/>
    #6
  8. Jas Lad
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    Jas Lad Member

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    [Oct 27, 2011]
    So you think give the oil a change first and after that try a new haldex unit?
    #7
  9. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 27, 2011]
    Oil change won't hurt... I doubt it will be an instant fix and you may have to change the oil again in a 1000 miles or so if its that bad as it will get contaminated with the cruddy stuff thats been left behind...

    <tuffty/>
    #8
  10. ian52
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    ian52 2000 a4 1.8tqs-yellow

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    [Oct 27, 2011]
    Mine wont engage at all and it's the intermittent mechanical fault code I get too so hopefully an oil and filter change fixes it. If not new haldex unit time. Why didn't they just make it proper Quattro like the a4 etc? So much more relliable.
    #9
  11. sportstractor
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    sportstractor Chugger

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    [Oct 28, 2011]
    I think haldex is pretty reliable if properly maintained, eg. Oil and filter change every 20k
    #10
  12. Alex C
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    Alex C Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 28, 2011]
    Does changing the haldex oil also change the rear diff oil or are they separate?
    #11
  13. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 28, 2011]
    Seperate.
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  14. ian52
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    ian52 2000 a4 1.8tqs-yellow

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    [Oct 28, 2011]
    With the ammount of threads on here and other forums about haldex problems i wouldnt say its that reliable. They just over complicated things by using the haldex system if you ask me,whats wrong with a proper diff?
    #13
  15. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 28, 2011]
    Haldex isn't a diff... its a clutch... there are benefits to using the haldex system rather than a full time torsion setup like 'proper' quattros (lol)

    Haldex is a generally reliable piece of kit but needs regular servicing like anything else... on older cars that are now getting serviced by regular garages its easy to overlook a haldex service and this can overtime have a detrimental effect on its reliability...

    My S3 has 114k on the clock but I have religiously serviced both the engine and haldex appropriately and is is still good in the world...

    If you are capable its worth doing these services yourself as they are not difficult to do and the benefits are obvious... I drop my engine oil every 5/6k now and do the haldex oil every 10k or so....

    A lot cheaper than replacing the haldex unit for sure...

    ...and lets not forget that the Veyron uses Haldex clutches so if its good enough for a car costing over a squillion pounds then its good enough for my lowly S3...

    <tuffty/>
    #14
  16. vrbob
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    vrbob Thats no Moon, Thats a space station!

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    [Oct 28, 2011]
    Just did the haldex oil and filter change on my car. Bought the oil, filter and filter tool off ebay for about £50 took me about 40mins to do the actual change. The oil i took out was pretty dirty and had a few bits in it so am glad its been done as i think iots been a while and for the effort it took to do i cant see why its neglected.

    Hopefully this should keep my 4wd going well ready for the winter
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  17. Jas Lad
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    Jas Lad Member

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    [Oct 28, 2011]
    Its a terribly flawed system imo and tbh once I sell the car probably my last, never had any such problems on any M car subaru/evo...
    #16
  18. The Doctor
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    The Doctor Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 28, 2011]
    But you did buy the car knowing that there was a problem with the 4WD system...? I'm sure that not maintaining any car component correctly will cause it to fail.
    #17
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  19. ian52
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    ian52 2000 a4 1.8tqs-yellow

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    [Oct 28, 2011]
    I only found out after buying mine it didn't work. Got the oil and filter sat here. Just need the tool to get the filter out now.
    #18
  20. sportstractor
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    sportstractor Chugger

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    [Oct 28, 2011]
    but they both used 50% more fuel
    #19
  21. s3matty
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    s3matty Member

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    [Oct 29, 2011]
    If you need a replacement i have a perfect S3 diff/haldex set-up you can have for £150
    #20
  22. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 29, 2011]
    Would prefer it if you PM'd them my friend :)

    <tuffty/>
    #21
  23. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Oct 29, 2011]
    The Haldex oil/filter servicing gets forgotten most of the time...
    When I ask haldex owners the question re when was it last changed most dont know its even required!
    #22
  24. envy_vwm
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    envy_vwm New Member

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    [Oct 29, 2011]
    The friend of my cured the same problem by fixing both longitutional & lateral sensors.
    I sold my car inspected by VW saying it is in good shape, but it was doing that strange jerking


    ---
    I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=56.916761,24.116075
    #23
  25. sportstractor
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    sportstractor Chugger

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    [Oct 29, 2011]
    Well when I took mine to the dealer for its last service, I had to suggest they did the haldex oil and filter. They wouldn't of bothered otherwise, even though it was in it's schedule. Maybe in an effort to be competitive, they just do the minimum
    #24
  26. The Doctor
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    The Doctor Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 29, 2011]
    It's crazy. Just get them to change the oil/filter once a year, stamp the service book and leave. Then do the rest of the jobs yourself so you know they're done properly. It's not even as if the Haldex & filter is hard to do!
    #25
  27. Jas Lad
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    Jas Lad Member

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    [Oct 30, 2011]
    My PPP blobeye was quite good on fuel, and M3's I have had all done around the 30 mark which wasnt bad.
    #26
  28. Jas Lad
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    Jas Lad Member

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    [Oct 30, 2011]
    Thanks mate i'll see how I get on with my oil change then drop you a line...
    #27
  29. Jas Lad
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    Jas Lad Member

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    [Nov 1, 2011]
    Can anyone tell me what haldex's/rear diffs i can use in a 02 S3?

    Was told cars without ECP can't be used on mine as it has traction control etc? So there for would that rule out pre facelift S3's?

    Or is it only the controller that causes the issue?
    #28
  30. Jas Lad
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    Jas Lad Member

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    [Nov 2, 2011]
    Just bought a 2002 41k S3 diff... hope it works!
    #29
  31. thegoal007
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    thegoal007 Another S3 owner....

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    [Nov 2, 2011]
    I've always wondered does anyone actually believe advertisers when they state a a particular part has come off an XXX milegae car ? Unless you see the car with your own eyes and check the mileage when they take it off then surely the part will always be off a so-called low milegae car !
    someone else had similar problem on the boards and replaced the whole unit and cured the problem........and others I've read...NOT.
    #30
  32. Jas Lad
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    Jas Lad Member

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    [Nov 12, 2011]
    New diff is in it, its ****ed too... making like an ABS pulsing vibration when doing 3 points etc.

    Think its the controller so going to swop it for me old one, if that doesnt work guess its another diff and more money fitting/oils.
    #31
  33. Endacy
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    Endacy Member

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    [Nov 12, 2011]
    My haldex would occasionally lock, usually i'd notice when i'd park and it would go BANG after turning the ignition off and clunk the drivetrain from the back as the trasmission unwound. Only did it when the ignition was off so similar to yours, locked when powered but would happily unlock eventually. Don't forget when driving it's not 'open', it delivers 5% power the rear (or similar) probably to prevent drivetrain shunt by keeping the rear diff gears engaged in the forward direction.

    Mine was solved with new oil / filter. I don't think it had been changed in 60k. I change it around every 10k and it stays quite sweet. It's not a hard job.
    #32
  34. Jas Lad
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    Jas Lad Member

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    [Nov 14, 2011]
    Guys its had a new diff and iv swopped the haldex controller from my "new" diff to me old one and its got worse again, all very similar problems, no faults showing on vagcom except this which comes and goes:

    Chassis Type: 8L - Audi A3/S3
    Scan: 01,02,03,08,15,17,22,35,37,45,54,55,56

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 01: Engine
    Controller: 8N0 906 018 BH
    Component: 1.8L R4/5VT 0001
    Coding: 10710
    Shop #: WSC 66565
    WAUZZZ8LX21016331 AUZ7Z0A1987800
    No fault code found.
    Readiness: 0010 0001
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 03: ABS Brakes
    Controller: 8N0 907 379 E
    Component: ESP 20 CAN V005
    Coding: 18448
    Shop #: WSC 01236
    1 Fault Found:
    01324 - Control Module for All Wheel Drive (J492)
    49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent

    Anyone any ideas??
    #33
  35. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Nov 14, 2011]
    Exactly what it says on the tin really... check the earth strap, the plug wiring etc... failing that its the controller...

    <tuffty/>
    #34
  36. Jas Lad
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    Jas Lad Member

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    [Nov 14, 2011]
    Brand new earth strap fitted
    Diff
    Diff oil
    Haldex filter
    Haldex Controller/Unit (probably faulty controller)
    Haldex Oil

    A friend has a scrap v6 4motion and has very kindly allowed me to try his controller so going to give it a bash....
    #35
  37. Gops
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    Gops 6th gear @7000rpm

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    [Nov 15, 2011]
    I put an older controller in my car as the differences between the designs of the two were visible! When you drive, is the ESP light constantly on? Have you jacked the car on all 4's to see what it's actually doing?
    #36
  38. thegoal007
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    thegoal007 Another S3 owner....

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    [Nov 15, 2011]
    as I mentioned earlier....and some having replaced the controller and haldex still NOT fixed the problem. I have haerd of one person replacing the abs control unit and fixing the problem.

    And...just in case you thought what else could could it be....well, as someone else has mentioned you also have the 2 sensors in the car and also the 4 at each wheel - ALL of which contribute to the working of the haldex unit !

    I believe the haldex IS WORKING properly, it's just that something is telling it to engage at the wrong time.
    #37
  39. Jas Lad
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    Jas Lad Member

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    [Nov 15, 2011]
    No ESP light, traction control can be turned on/off

    All 4 wheels are def working, the problem is the rear is locked solid!
    #38
  40. Jas Lad
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    Jas Lad Member

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    [Nov 15, 2011]
    Totally understand mate, but i checked with a snapon and vagcom ecu reader, all speed sensors are reading the exact same, steering angle etc also spot on, brake light and handbrake switchs work 110% too, no errors and on my tests show being engaged/disengaged.

    ABS unit is a good shout. Big job replacing?
    #39
  41. Jas Lad
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    Jas Lad Member

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    [Nov 16, 2011]
    Okay another update.

    Vagcom testing, section 22 AWD

    Basically If I run the diag. test, to engage the pump I can hear it turn off and on as the test runs, good I think
    Next clutch engage/disengage no problems

    Now while testing, with the pump state in "hi" all I get is clunk clunk clunk, when disengaged and pump goes into "lo" state, the car does 3 point turns etc perfectly, no issues.

    If I do a hard launch or hard circle it pushs the pump state into "hi" again producing the clunking and is thus stuck in "hi" untill I go into vagcom and tell it to cycle again.

    So this is leading me to one of 2 things, the controller isnt capable of telling the pump the correct state to be in (I have just got a 110% working controller yet to fit) or the pump is getting stuck in "hi" although VAGCOM is able to tell it to go to "lo"

    My money is on the controller? Although no errors are showing.
    #40

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