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S3 3" Down Pipe

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by StephenBogan, Jun 7, 2004.

  1. StephenBogan

    StephenBogan Member

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    I have heard recently about a 3" down pipe, replacing the **** standard down pipes. Starperformace are doing test in a little while but I was just wondering if anyone else had heard anything??

    I spoke to a guy who was selling a 04 04 S3, (yes an 04, is on the Autotrader website - £23995) who claims its 300bhp, when I asked is it was a big turbo he said no it was all down to the remap and a full, turbo back 3" exhaust which ties up with Starperformance.

    This should be interesting! If it does what it says on the tin, I'll be putting the Brembos on the back burner and sorting myself out with one of theses! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Cheers
     
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  3. s8n

    s8n Member

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    APR resellers and Harding European in QLD, Australia have already developed a 3" downpipe for the RHD Audi S3.

    Price is huge, because of the expensive cat used and also there is a 4hr job at removing the entire subframe to fit the pipe. They found although it gave gains, the limit in the S3 over about 290hp or so, is the injectors and more importantly the MAF which cannot read the air required for the downpipe to flow more..
     
  4. s8n

    s8n Member

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    Here are some pictures

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Grant

    Grant Well-Known Member
    VCDS Map User Audi S3 Audi RS3

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    Jim @ Star Performance told me they were away to test a new down pipe which he believed could release up to 30 or 40bhp!
     
  6. Mike.M

    Mike.M Well-Known Member

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    WOW!

    I would be interested in any pipe that releases that much power!
     
  7. s8n

    s8n Member

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    These pipes DO NOT provide 40hp. The issue is the MAF, no matter what you do you cannot break the 300hp mark without injector/maf changes

    The downpipe has alot of potential but until someone does a chip upgrade which includes a new MAF and injectors, were stuffed!
     
  8. excursion

    excursion Member

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    I had to swap out to larger injectors to get my A4 past 300, I was interested in TT225/S3 injectors but they were not large enough. I forget the flow rate now.

    I'm not keen on that pipe with a K04, 2.5 is much better suited.
     
  9. s8n

    s8n Member

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    excursion, 3" is standard on a the k03 downpipe on S3/TT's

    The 3" is straight of the back fo the turbo, then splitting. 3" is what just about everyone uses..
     
  10. excursion

    excursion Member

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    The k03 & K04 have a 3" discharge flange, but I wasn't aware Audi fitted a 3" DP, mate?

    The reason Audi split the pipes is to combat what I don't like about a true 3" - lag.
     
  11. s8n

    s8n Member

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    Well apparently users of 3" turboback exhausts have no apparent lag issues (XXX18T was one)
     
  12. excursion

    excursion Member

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    Personal preference then I guess. I really disliked mine, the lack of low down torque was very apparant. I went down to a 2.5".
     
  13. StephenBogan

    StephenBogan Member

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    Have to say I've read on several sites that 2.5" is more than sufficiant. Club18t was one.

    Jim at Star quoted me similar bhp hikes but said he would let me know once they have tested it. Can't wait.
     
  14. s8n

    s8n Member

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    *shrug* most sites have said various things, i guess preferance yes /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    I've yet to drive a APR car with this downpipe on.. they dont seem to be selling too well at present beacause the gains arent there and the price is very expensive.

    Heres hoping they fix the maf issue and also bring the price down
     
  15. excursion

    excursion Member

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    I can see why the gains aren't there, the standard S3 downpipe looks quite good. A slight restriction before the branch but the diameter is there. I bet the cats cause the biggest problems?

    S8N What are the MAF issues with S3's, is it the diameter? or do they tend to die like most of the others in the Audi range /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
     
  16. Ryanc

    Ryanc Active Member

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    i find it hard to believe there is a problem with the maf over 300hp,i know jabba are using a s3 maf on some of there 300+ ihi turbo'd golfs/ibizas.i tend to agree with the injectors comment,what injectors are the upgraded ones?regards Ryan
     
  17. excursion

    excursion Member

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    Ryan I have Bosch 320cc injectors. If you need a set of 4 hit me up.
     
  18. leondehaas

    leondehaas Member

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    Hi there,
    As far as I was informed correctly it isn't possible to achieve more than 280Hp with the standard KKK04 turbo, even with downpipe mods of 3" and ECU remapping or what so ever.

    Hence I had a "Stage 5" turbo upgrade from JDEngineering (Holland) for my S3, this results according JDE to approx 350 Hp and a torgue of 410 Nm. This is a major performance improvement compared to the previous ABT chipmod + alu. oettinger turbo intake (260Hp)
    Some of the changes which were done:
    -Larger turbo intake + open air filter.
    -Larger IHI ball-bearing turbo.
    -Forge DV.
    -Flowed exhaust manifold, teflon coated interior.
    -Larger downpipe.
    -Removed Cat.
    -Larger fuel injectors.
    -upgraded air mass.
    -upgraded sparks.
    -ECU remapped.
     
  19. s8n

    s8n Member

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    Im unsure on the specfics of the MAF issue, but my local rep who has designed the Downpipe says the car runs better in non chipped mod with the downpipe than it does in chipped mode. This is because the injectors and maf are nearlly maxed out when the car is chipped due to increased fuel and increased airflow..

    Is it the maf diameter or the sensor, im not certain.

    But I do know that injectors are required, apparnetly APR are looking at it..
     
  20. s8n

    s8n Member

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    Oh, i have a article in a tech mag i have that says you need 5cc of fuel per horsepower.

    so 5 x 280hp = 1400cc

    4 injectors @ 360 = 1440cc

    As you can see 280 to 290hp is pushing the injectors near max duty cycle.

    440cc is recommended for 350hp



     
  21. StephenBogan

    StephenBogan Member

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    Gees Leon,

    you have the biggest power figures here I think! How much did all that costya?
     
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  23. leondehaas

    leondehaas Member

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    Scot,
    About the power figures, it's quit something, but whether they’re the biggest, I’m not sure. With a little more CPU tweaking a 380 bhp and 450 nm should be possible, but then you reach the limits of the gear-box, transmission etc. In that case you need to upgrade for instance the oil-cooling for these parts.

    As said this engine-enhancement was performed by JDEngineering, base price was around Euro 6.600,-- (+/- US$ 7.800). This is in my opinion very reasonable. But final costs depends very much on status of your engine, gearbox and suspension etc. In my case they have additionally inspected the crankshaft bearing and overhauled the front-suspension bearings.

    The set-up causes a complete different engine response compared to a standard S3 (or light-tuned 250 bhp). Due to the large turbo it has a considerable lag. Below approx 4000 rpm the engine is a bit lazy, but from that point until the redline (approx 7250 rpm) it is responding very quick and progressive. This turbo-lag can be very tricky in corners (therefore I use Advan A048 semi-slicks for good traction). But as long as you keep it revving above 4K the lag won’t bother you.

    BTW I noticed you’re running with IC-water spray, does that really make any difference? Did you use the Headlight-washer for that?
     
  24. PaulRS3

    PaulRS3 Well-Known Member

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    the twin pipes of the standard downpipe look bigger than the single APR one to me.

    twin cats standard, single race cat aftermarket...

    wonder if one race cat will flow better than two standard ones...?

    looks nice and shiny but is it really worth the bother?



     
  25. s8n

    s8n Member

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    Paul, they arent. A single race cat is FAR better than two restrictive oem cats

    Definately worth the bother once the MAF issues are sorted or if you have a bigger turbo
     
  26. cyuen

    cyuen Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Imola S3 said:
    Jim @ Star Performance told me they were away to test a new down pipe which he believed could release up to 30 or 40bhp!

    [/ QUOTE ]
    30 to 40 bhp .. my god, either we have an incredibly [censored] downpipe, or this one is supercharged, turbocharged and NOSed hahah /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

    i notice the milltek sport cats (does it include down pipe?) only gives like 12hp.. some said it doesn't even do that
     

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