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S tronic Vs Manual

Discussion in 'New A3/S3 (8V Chassis)' started by rizzoface, Mar 11, 2014.

  1. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator
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    You do, but isn't it limited to just 200 uses based on some of the research picked up on here recently?

    There has just been a recall on the 7 speed DSG/Stronic boxes world wide to change the gearbox oil from synthetic to mineral, and whilst I think it's great tech to have in a car from new, I wouldn't fancy having to replace an S-Tronic gearbox out of warranty if it decided to cry enough.
     
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  3. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator
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    I've referred your complaint to the admin and broader moderator team to see what they make of it, they can make the ultimate decision on who is driving a personal agenda here.
     
  4. felsby

    felsby Member

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    You can identify special situations where Quattro will add to your driving pleasure: snow, wet roads, no slipping during acceleration. Conversely, it will increase fuel consumption by 10%.

    S-tronic will add to your driving pleasure every time you turn the key. So that´s what I chose, but if my budget looks good, the next Audi *might* get S-tronic AND quattro. But never a manual transmission again!
     
  5. ElliotB

    ElliotB Member

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    Do you have the source of that info? No agenda, just curious
     
  6. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator
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  7. CraigI

    CraigI Well-Known Member

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    Oh come on, no need for that is there?
    Much of what I have seen is healthy debate, strong opinion and a little tongue in cheek banter.

    There was but one comment in this thread that probably merited moderating regarding people with disabilities, but alas you have chosen to refer someone having an opinion (albeit a strong opinion) that differs from yours.
     
  8. Figarro

    Figarro New Member

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    1982 Stig Blomqvist and Audi Sport .. and our Hannu Mikkola Audi Sport .. first quattro and manual. Now I mean, I am older man and I have allways driven manuals and I like manuals special at winters. Cars has made to driven and with manual gearbox you feel more that you are driving the car. I do not understund why we are talking about 0-60 times or laptimes? Come here and drive against me at the snowy track, my manual vs your s-tronic .. maybe you understund is not that manual vs s-tronic .. its just good driving skills what you need. S-Tronic is fun to drive, verry verry fun BUT manualbox .. you can use it so many different way, corners, car slidings ..
    So younger driver s-tronic is good but maybe older more driving skills and you like more manual, MAYBE??
     
  9. CraigI

    CraigI Well-Known Member

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    Despite the fact that this is currently unconfirmed the 200 limit isn't a problem.
    I'll only use launch control when up against a manual S3 (naturally in a safe environment), to remind them who's boss!
    That won't be 200 times I doubt.

    I'll use the 0-62mph time down the pub all the time though, as I know the car is capable of it.
     
  10. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator
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    The post you question is providing reassurance to the EliotB that I have escalated his thread complaint (issued against me) to the broader community of moderators/admin. As I moderate this forum I don't think it's worth moderating myself do you? I wanted him to be assured it's getting a universal appraisal rather than me casting judge and jury on myself. What's wrong with that. Might be worth checking your facts before you wade in?
     
    #129 warren_S5, Mar 13, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2014
  11. ElliotB

    ElliotB Member

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    Launch Control.jpg
    That is very interesting. Those who use launch control are definitely going to be using it more than 200 times
     
  12. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator
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    I'd always expected it to be a 'full use' function, but what happens when a car gets sold second hand and the subsequent user finds all the launches have been used up. I'm in liaison with a tuning house to see whether this is valid to all models or just some, but it seems (assuming it can't be reset), that there are concerns over the durability if used excessively. I know you can't believe everything you read on the net, but it's certainly one to watch.
     
  13. CraigI

    CraigI Well-Known Member

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    Would be interested to find out the 0-62 without using launch control.
     
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  14. RossR

    RossR Active Member

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    I seriously considered S-Tronic when ordering, but went for a manual in the end. I'll give it serious consideration next time too. The factors which influenced my choice were:

    S-Tronic improves ACC, which is already a great feature IMO.

    S-Tronic would give me the choice of a relaxing drive (especially with ACC and lane assist) or a more involving one using the paddles. I enjoy driving, but sometimes I just want to get were I'm going.

    Official economy figures are sometimes better with S-Tronic which can save on road tax. I doubt real world would be any better.

    Manual is cheaper to buy (although some of the cost of an auto is recouped at resale). If I'd bought an S-Tronic, I'd have had to drop other options.

    My wife drives the car occasionally, and she might not like switching between her manual and an auto.

    Some concerns over the reliability of S-Tronic boxes, especially the 7-speed which is what I would have got (1.4 COD).

    I've never driven an S-Tronic. I've driven a Saab automatic and it was poor, but the A3 could be brilliant. I asked the dealership if they had anything with S-Tronic I could test drive. The answer was "only the R8". Fun as that would have been, I don't think it would have been very representative. This was the clincher for me - I wasn't going to buy without a test drive.
     
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  15. ElliotB

    ElliotB Member

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    What if the car is serviced and the necessary components are replaced? Is there a way to reset the count? With that limitation it's better not to have launch control at all. It would drive me crazy for example
     
  16. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator
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    Not as far as I'm aware, I've been told it registers a count that can be read in VCDS, but not amended. What the score is for gearbox replacements (at warranty) I have no idea as you'd have to assume you go back to '0' launches on that gearbox.

    It's a great marketing tool for Audi to use when compiling stats for magazine reports etc. , but if this info IS genuine and applies to all models it's a bit underhand that they don't share it with the customer. Personally I can't see myself doing launches every set of traffic lights because I don't tend to do those sort of journeys. However I'm interested to see if the tuning houses can develop a DSG remap that manages the counter.

    I'm assuming VW Audi group have been having warranty claim issues on modified cars in the States (as this is where the info originated), and they are looking for a get out clause for inappropriate warranty work.
     
  17. ElliotB

    ElliotB Member

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    "However I'm interested to see if the tuning houses can develop a DSG remap that manages the counter." - i think it's safe to assume that tuning companies will be able to do it. But there is a reason for having a counter, just resetting it is a bad idea IMO
     
  18. sameatworld

    sameatworld New Member

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    Jeez.... Hardcore....

    Have ordered dsg for the s3. The R and mkv gti were also dsg. But am enjoying the manual in my vw up. Nothing quite like nailing your heel toe. Looking to get fiesta ST and loved the gear shifts on test drive. I think driving manual and doing a well timed heel toe makes those corners much more fun :)
     
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  19. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator
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    I do agree, the new TD1 process that dealers run to check alterations to ECU specification are always likely to come up and invalidate your warranty anyway. I suppose it depends how much people miss it when they reach 200 as to whether they may take that route. On my new car the S-Tronic system doesn't seem to hold on to gears at the top end, and when I have the supercharger pulley conversion and remap I want the gearbox to align to the new running parameters so I'll have to go that route (whether it does anything to the 200 or not).
     
  20. cemerson

    cemerson Well-Known Member

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    Like I said, depends on your definition of 'better'. Not everyone looks for those qualities.
     
  21. Itguy

    Itguy Well-Known Member

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    S-tronic seems to suit the car. The a3 and s3 are not sports cars, they are good quality hatchbacks which come in a varying level of speeds. None of them are sportscars or should be considered as such.

    I do love getting involved with the gear lever in a manual and it really does depend on the car I think as to what suits best. Test drove a fiesta ST (new one) the other weekend and it was perfect in manual form (has anyone else noticed how amazing the throttle response is too?).

    We've got a Z4 E85 for summer months and that's a 3.0i manual. Could have had an auto but the manual is more involving. I still wouldn't class that as a Sportscar though!

    In my car history I've also owned a 996 911 turbo which was a 5 speed tip tronic. Hated it. Should have got a manual.

    Wouldn't swap my S3 s-tronic for a manual though, even if it did do better mpg.
     
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  23. the_cueball

    the_cueball Active Member

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    I just hope any modern Audi auto box is a lot better and stronger than their old ones...

    I have a 2003 car, and it's already had 2 £4k plus rebuilds on it... :wall:

    but as to what is "best"... it's of course down to personal decisions...

    I have 3 autos, 1 manual and a bike (which is manual)

    The autos work great, one is a "full auto", then I have one with buttons to change the gears, and the other has flappies...

    I don't buy all the "connection" stuff that "drivers" hit out with, the only difference to me changing gear with a flappy to them "having a great time and connecting with the car, as well as being a man" is that I don't use my left leg/foot, or hold a knob in the process..some men just like holding knobs...

    I love driving, and I drive on road, track and off road.... driving is driving for me... and your machine is there to be driven... regardless of what it is/has in it...

    :arco:
     
  24. Snake Pliskin

    Snake Pliskin Well-Known Member
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    My view on this is ........

    Always been hard core manual fan and never interested enough in the auto's to take one up or more importantly pay the £1.5k to £2k price tag.

    The S5 was s-tronic only so it kinda forced the issue, but as it was already in the price tag of the car the 'extra' cost was hidden to some degree.

    End result after test drive was I loved the auto and it really suited the car so decided to place an order and run with it.

    Several months on with the car, I have to confess to loving it, it is superb and for all the reasons which have been mentioned.
    Its great to cruise around in full auto or power on and let the car take care of all the gear changes, its superb tech.
    So I am very happy with it and will enjoy it as long as I have the S5.

    However ...........

    I am still not convinced (for me) I would pay £1.5k + for it.
    Having now sampled both, I like both - for different reasons.
    If the car comes with s-tronic only I would be quite happy with that, but as an extra I don't dislike manual enough to pay the premium for auto.
     
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  25. ElliotB

    ElliotB Member

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    We can attempt to quantify 'better' by measuring the following:
    * Performance
    * Versatility
    * Ease of use
    * Reliability
    * Cost
    * Maintenance
     
  26. 45bvtc

    45bvtc Well-Known Member
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    We used to have an S3 with manual 6-speed gearbox and loved it, and then we tried the DSG in an RS3 and were seriously impressed with that experience.

    So now we've an RS3 with a 7-speed DSG gearbox: the different modes in which gear changes can be applied are astonishing. With auto, sport, manual-sequential, and/or manual-paddle you have an option for any mood. And the paddles with over-ride the auto/sport at anytime.

    So convinced with the DSG that our manual TT roadster just had to go too swapping for a Mk2 with 6-speed DSG.

    Our advice, GO DSG and learn how to use it as it oh so quick with modes to suit every occasion!

     
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  27. cemerson

    cemerson Well-Known Member

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    You can attempt all you want, but better means different things to different people!
     
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  28. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator
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    I agree with all the categories you've listed above as measures for determining a final 'score', but it fundamentally overlooks personal requirements or preference.

    I think the best you can ever achieve is 'scenario' assumption based on a persons specific personal needs for their vehicle. Like the chap from Scandinavia who posted earlier is unlikely to want DSG given the kind of driving he's likely to do given the road conditions in his country, but that's very specific and different to someone whose commuting or track driving.

    I feel that people are desperately trying to drive out a final conclusion but the playing field is so broad it will be impossible to reach a unilateral agreement.
     
    #146 warren_S5, Mar 13, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2014
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  29. 0B1001001

    0B1001001 Active Member
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    There is no right or wrong answer here - you obviously prefer the S-Tronic (which is fine). Others do not. Neither are incorrect views to hold. What I would say is you are coming across as somewhat "evangelical" on this...
     
  30. Figarro

    Figarro New Member

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    Warren_S3 is right, there is no right answer. There is so many flavor and spices, so everyone can find his own taste. However, the biggest thing is that our car is very good in both ways.
     
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  31. ElliotB

    ElliotB Member

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    Ok let me clarify - technically better (a similar comparison could be between an old classic car and a new Lambo). Some might prefer the manual and it is fine by me, they might feel more "connected to the car" etc.

    I only got slightly agitated when someone implied that s-tronic is for women and for persons with disabilities.
     
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  32. PilotAudi

    PilotAudi New Member

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    Interesting.. Our first 5 was a Manual quattro. second Cabriolet you had to have S Tronic... no where near as much fun for us (in a mechanically similar car).

    I like both but as previously posted each to their own choice.. even if the price were identical I would still choose Manual for an S3 and an S5 (if B* Audi let you buy one!)... For a larger cruiser A6/7/8 Tiptronic/S Tronic everytime!

    Certainly assertions about Autos are for women is frankly rubbish, as for those with certain disabilities, they may need an Auto to accommodate their needs.
     
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  33. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator
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    Technically from a manufacturing perspective it's a bloody miracle. I don't dispute that at all. It makes manual look like vinyl vs. MP3! For the broader population I think it's a triumph. It changes gears better than I could ever hope to, faster, cleaner, causing less gearbox wear. I don't doubt in years to come it will be the standard and manual will die all for a few very specialist vehicles.
     
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  34. ElliotB

    ElliotB Member

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    That's my point! I'm not trying to be a jehovah witness here and convince everybody to only purchase cars with s-tronic.

    PS: I started driving 15 years ago, 6 of which were on manual, but then it had always been an automatic and I will never go back to manual again. However my fiancee is about to start courses and I insisted that she applied for a manual drivers license
     
    #152 ElliotB, Mar 13, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2014
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  35. 45bvtc

    45bvtc Well-Known Member
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    Hey EliliotB, having run this for 37-years with an acknowledged superb 4-speed gearbox:

    [​IMG]

    I can honestly say that the 6 or 7-speed DSG (Direct-Shift Gearbox) when operated in all of it's modes, and depending on road conditions, is as Warren_S3 says "Technically from a manufacturing perspective it's a bloody miracle". I/we love it!

    Just run the RS3 around North Staffs and into Derbyshire (with lunch at the Duncombe Arms in Ellastone) and have returned FULL of praise for the DSG.
     
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  36. Itguy

    Itguy Well-Known Member

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    Hubba hubba!
     
  37. GreatBallsofFire

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    Having a manual also means more light exercise when driving, hence you can expect manual gear drivers to gain a few years life expectancy vs s-tronic users, similar to dog owners ;-)

    In snow and ice, manual is traditionally considered better, thus far more manual users in Scandinavia (traditionally), where I live. For many it might be a issue of costs as well, and as previously said I would always chose quattro over S-tronic, if forced to to chose - because quattro really makes a difference when it comes to safety, another league safety wise (and more fun too).
     
  38. h5djr

    h5djr Well-Known Member
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    Are you any wiser now or just more confused. What sort of driving will you be doing and how many miles. If there is a lot of 'town' driving. This may well mean that one type of gearbox is better for you personally than another. Do you think the extra cost will be worth to you. In the end only you can decide but the s-tronic has a lot going for it. You can decide if you want to drive with in auto or in manual mode and select the gears yourself. Personally I think the s-tronic can give you the best of both worlds depending on how you feel on the day. This is one thing a manual gearbox can never give you. Let us know what you decide.
     
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  39. veeeight

    veeeight I am a very pretty girl
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    #157 veeeight, Mar 13, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2014
  40. Joetidman

    Joetidman Well-Known Member

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    That wasn't really the main point I was making but hey.
     
  41. vegnomeat

    vegnomeat Member

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    But you can't quantify the passion and involvement that a manual gives you.
     
  42. Stephen C

    Stephen C Active Member

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    I had a DSG 7-speed and it was great.

    The only thing I didn't like about S tronic was the very slow start from a standstill. Apparently this is to stop people taking off at speed? It must be unique to Audi or a new feature of the box, because my SEAT DSG didn't have that effect on launch in first gear.
     

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