S tronic Vs Manual (Poll)
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As they will of yours, judging by the likes I have had, and I also know what I prefer, so really we are talking about the same thing, personal preference...
Having had both, S-tronic in the A1 and now a Manual in the S3 both have their pro's and cons.
I loved the S-tronic for going through the town's etc and I especially loved it on days when I couldn't be bothered.. Also the ease of which it drove and how seamless the changes are was an awesome feature. However when I was feeling in a sporty mood I felt like I was not as involved as I would like to have been when flicking up through the gears in M mode and also in some instances it just could not decide what gear it wanted to be in (this was rare over 2 years of everyday driving it happened a handful of times).
With the Manual I really feel in control and love the relationship I now have with driving again, it is not the best for going through towns but this is only a quarter of my journey so doesn't bother me too much and that's why I opted for it this time. I love having free control over the revs when coming down through the gears and if you time it just right and blip the throttle it does sound really good..
However when I replace our mk2 TT with the new model in a year or so I may opt for the S-tronic again as the wife does a fair bit of town driving and may be getting an operation on her elbow next summer so this would help her.
What's more important to me is that I am exceptionally happy with the S3 and tbh would have been happy had I gone either way.
I loved the S-tronic for going through the town's etc and I especially loved it on days when I couldn't be bothered.. Also the ease of which it drove and how seamless the changes are was an awesome feature. However when I was feeling in a sporty mood I felt like I was not as involved as I would like to have been when flicking up through the gears in M mode and also in some instances it just could not decide what gear it wanted to be in (this was rare over 2 years of everyday driving it happened a handful of times).
With the Manual I really feel in control and love the relationship I now have with driving again, it is not the best for going through towns but this is only a quarter of my journey so doesn't bother me too much and that's why I opted for it this time. I love having free control over the revs when coming down through the gears and if you time it just right and blip the throttle it does sound really good..
However when I replace our mk2 TT with the new model in a year or so I may opt for the S-tronic again as the wife does a fair bit of town driving and may be getting an operation on her elbow next summer so this would help her.
What's more important to me is that I am exceptionally happy with the S3 and tbh would have been happy had I gone either way.
Yes exactly, at least with AUDI at the moment we can choose which we prefer. I wonder how much longer that will continue with the introduction of cars like the A3 e-tron. Fortunately for me the car I wanted, an A3 2.0TDI-184 was only available in s-tronic with quattro as well so I am now enjoying driving my first quattro as well as a 184 and loving every minute of it.
Well we know cars will be more automated with ever decreasing driver input. In time there will probably be no manual gearboxes at all.
As I go about living my life, I revel in the diversity that is people. The different dress that people choose, the variation in the food that appeals to each of us. The choices we make are as numerous as the number of people on the planet. Thank God that we are all different. It's quite remarkable when you think about it.
So who is right and who is wrong, who has made the right choices, is any one perfect? What is the standard? Who and what should we all try to be?
So it's not surprising that there are so many choices when it comes to even things like a car. Not only the make, but the colour, the shape, the trim. Where would we be if as some might suggest the only car in the World should be a Golf R in Sepang Blue with Mono-pur and Stronic.
Rejoice in our differences not our similarities. Who's right, who's wrong? The simple answer is NONE OF US.
So who is right and who is wrong, who has made the right choices, is any one perfect? What is the standard? Who and what should we all try to be?
So it's not surprising that there are so many choices when it comes to even things like a car. Not only the make, but the colour, the shape, the trim. Where would we be if as some might suggest the only car in the World should be a Golf R in Sepang Blue with Mono-pur and Stronic.
Rejoice in our differences not our similarities. Who's right, who's wrong? The simple answer is NONE OF US.
Very true, it is all about personal choice and we are all different. But, I am still right.
I think this may well be the the case with the new Audi models as they come out. The new RS3 for example will only be available as a s-tronic quattro. Audi now offer s-tronic on all the models in the A1 range as well. It will be interesting to see what options are available with the new A4 when it comes out early next year. The are certainly dropping the current 'multitronic gearbox in favour of the s-tronic but what will they offer on the various models through the range. At the moment only the top of the range petrol and diesel models are offered with s-tronic and with no manual option in any of the S4 models.
Hopefully the 'driver input' will still remain for many years to come in the form of road craft even if there is less input on things like changing the gears and switching on lights and wipers and other driver aids.
Hi folks interesting thread. My new A3 SB 2014 has S-tronic (7 speed) and while I have only used in auto (apart from one occasion very early in ownership when I accidentally put it into sport mode during a very tight underground parking spot manoeuvre and drove home in sport mode because I hadn"t finished reading the manual and was nervy about changing back to auto mode in traffic - lol). But I find the S-tronic excellent for city traffic although a bit slow on takeoff from standing. However, I wonder why S3 owners wouldn't prefer manual change given the enormous power output of their engine.
Probably can speak from a bit of experience as previously always had manual cars including a few sport types. My immediate previous drive was an A3 1.8 manual which was increasingly challenging to drive in city traffic - but quite gutsy and pleasing to drive on open freeways and highways. However, I am looking forward to trying sport and manual gear changes on my new wheels, including using the paddle shifters. On that point, any advice from members on optimising use of s-tronic gears on highways would be appreciated.
thks
Probably can speak from a bit of experience as previously always had manual cars including a few sport types. My immediate previous drive was an A3 1.8 manual which was increasingly challenging to drive in city traffic - but quite gutsy and pleasing to drive on open freeways and highways. However, I am looking forward to trying sport and manual gear changes on my new wheels, including using the paddle shifters. On that point, any advice from members on optimising use of s-tronic gears on highways would be appreciated.
thks
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I think people forget different people want different things for different reasons. Some people are not so bothered about the gear change and driver interaction that a manual gives, some people just know S tronic is faster, and saves more fuel when you want to drive normal. I love the fact you can floor it coming out of a roundabout and change just on the other side of the apex to keep the power down, to give that go kart feeling.
I love the interaction of using the S tronic manually, I wish they would put in an 8 speed box so I could use flappy paddles more. I love when stuck in loads of traffic and I just let the car creep along, I love the fact you have a Park and it does not roll down the hill because you forgot to pull hand brake up enough after a good hard trashing, and did not put it in gear
I Drive my S3 like an everyday car so S-Tronic for ME suits me by far more than a Manual now.
I love the interaction of using the S tronic manually, I wish they would put in an 8 speed box so I could use flappy paddles more
. I love when stuck in loads of traffic and I just let the car creep along, I love the fact you have a Park and it does not roll down the hill because you forgot to pull hand brake up enough after a good hard trashing, and did not put it in gear I Drive my S3 like an everyday car so S-Tronic for ME suits me by far more than a Manual now.
One of the things that is so nice about the s-tronic is that it can be used in a number of different ways. Normal auto, sport mode, manual mode and all from the same gearbox. You can use it in which ever mode suits you and suits the traffic conditions at the time. I normally use manual mode most of the time but it's nice to be able to use auto mode in traffic queues especially as it works so well with the ACC in this situation.
Good observation - I have found the hesitation more pronounced on th 6 speed s-tronic box coming from the 7 speed version in my A1.
A3Kent
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The hesitation was annoying for me when I had an S-tronic a few years back. Almost got me into trouble a few times when trying to get across busy traffic.
I also do mainly twisty lanes on my way to work so the manual box makes it much more fun to drive. If I was on the motorway a lot I'd consider the s-tronic again for sure.
I also do mainly twisty lanes on my way to work so the manual box makes it much more fun to drive. If I was on the motorway a lot I'd consider the s-tronic again for sure.
... so much to comment on here.
First lets get some facts straight...
- the S-tronic is less economical than a manual.
- launch control makes S-tronic faster (I have used that feature 3 or 4 times)
- there is always a delay with the DSG in my Golf and our S-tronic A3 - even in M mode.
Having said that I love the S-tronic/DSG. But I recognise it is not perfect.
I see that VW have announced that there will be a manual version of the new Polo GTI. I speculate that this was due to lower than expected sales of the previous DSG only car. The old car accounted for 1% of Polo sales. They expect that the new car will account for 3% of sales. Then there is the issue that they have increased the power and torque by changing from a 1.4L to 1.8L engine. And the 7 speed auto is unable to handle all the torque that the engine can produce. I'm waiting to see how they will limit the torque to protect the gearbox without effecting performance.
Currently there are several reasons why people buy manual cars - they are usually cheaper, they are usually more economical and they offer better involvment. This may change in the future, but I dont see it happening any time soon.
As someone above said... there are pros and cons to both choices.
First lets get some facts straight...
- the S-tronic is less economical than a manual.
- launch control makes S-tronic faster (I have used that feature 3 or 4 times)
- there is always a delay with the DSG in my Golf and our S-tronic A3 - even in M mode.
Having said that I love the S-tronic/DSG. But I recognise it is not perfect.
I see that VW have announced that there will be a manual version of the new Polo GTI. I speculate that this was due to lower than expected sales of the previous DSG only car. The old car accounted for 1% of Polo sales. They expect that the new car will account for 3% of sales. Then there is the issue that they have increased the power and torque by changing from a 1.4L to 1.8L engine. And the 7 speed auto is unable to handle all the torque that the engine can produce. I'm waiting to see how they will limit the torque to protect the gearbox without effecting performance.
Currently there are several reasons why people buy manual cars - they are usually cheaper, they are usually more economical and they offer better involvment. This may change in the future, but I dont see it happening any time soon.
As someone above said... there are pros and cons to both choices.
Martin L
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I think the perceived hesitation could be more psychological. All you do with the s-tronic is press the loud pedal and wait. With a manual your mind has to think about more things e.g. biting point on the clutch and when to release, so perhaps there's a feeling of no hesitation.
That could also be a load of tosh as it could be just down to the revs. The s-tronic needs to spool up from idle where in a manual you can just dial in the revs required. This is why I guess in S mode the idle revs are higher so come moving off the line there's less of a wait.
I find my S3 better than the A1. Currently my S3 is quite "snappy" and I put it down to the clutches still need bedding in.
You don't have to find a 'bite point' on a manual when changing down, I find I just do it instinctively. On the S-Tronic you push the pedal yes then wait, wait, wait, push it down some more, oh finally we are getting somewhere..
A3Kent
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Its certainly not psychological. It can be very unpredictable. When I want power I want to know exactly when I'm going to get it, not when the car decides. Maybe the s-tronic gearbox has improved since I had it in a 2007 A3.
When my wife had a test drive in a 7-speed DSG Polo about 4 years ago she commented about the 'delay' and said it was a lot more noticeable than on my 6-speed s-tronic A3 which she also drives. I didn't actual drive the Polo myself. It's quite possible things have changed since then.
Mastering the clutch, brakes, handbrake and steering is what you do in driving lessons 1 to 10.
Driving the the car is what you do after that for the rest of your life - and is mainly a thinking task. In other words, you think first and then move the controls around.
If I don't have to think "Oh my, now l have to press that pedal and move that lever" , I am absolutely chuffed. I have more time to think about the driving process. If I have to engage manual mode on my S-tronic, I can enjoy that as well.
I do understand and respect your enjoyment of using a manual gear-change - I have manual as my round-town car (don't ask why - the answer is too stupid for words) and a manual motorcycle. I will not accept that changing gear is a fundamental part of being a "good" driver or is an essential part of being "involved" with the car or of the driving process.
Lets get some more facts straight:- Autos used to less economical than manuals, but for the most part are now more economical, some are actually quite a lot more economical. Overall S3s 8V are more economical, 8P even more towards the S-tronic.
Possibly because, in auto mode, the gearbox is in the correct gear most of the time.
Not with my s-tronic you don't. when stopped the gearbox automatically engages first gear and when I put away I just press the throttle and away it goes with no noticeable delay. This has been the same on all five of my A3s which have all had the 6-speed wet-clutch s-tronic. I cannot comment on the 7-speed dry-clutch s-tronic as I have never driven one as they only fit them to the lower torque petrol and diesel engines. Both the 150 and 184 diesel engines produce too much torque for the 7-speed.
As said above, it certainly isn't psychological.
With LC 0-50kmh 1.7s
Without LC 0-50kmh 2.3s
Half a second in a 30mph sprint is an eternity (relevant for getting out of busy junctions or roundabouts).
Been discussed at length in this thread:
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/launch-without-launch-control.220996/#post-2205676
This video demonstrates a DSG with and without launch control Predictably, when there is no boost, and a turbo to spin up, it takes a little longer.
This does mean, that a good quick shift driver in a manual, will be marginally faster 0-60 than a DSG car if LC is not used!
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/feedback-from-those-with-s3s-now.203206/page-18#post-2191915
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When I have to pull out rather smartly I tend to stay back a little and then with no Hold Assist, let the car creep very slowly forward and just hold it with the minimum pressure on the brake pedal. When a gap comes, just swap the foot from the brake to the throttle and way with no pause. Seems to work OK for me.
You maybe right with 2.0 engines but I can only based my experience with the 1.6 engine in my loan car and it might be turbo lag being behind some of the cause with the delay. However a diesel engine is also one I would never consider along with the s-tronic....
We are probably as far apart as you can get when it comes to cars....
I like powerful diesel engines with plenty of torque, I love the 6-speed s-tronic and I would always prefer a hatchback to a saloon.
I would never pay out for the Technology Pack, Advanced Key, Privacy Glass or the Audi Parking System Plus
but apart from those small differences at least we both like Audi's.
For the rest we will have to beg to differ and be grateful that Audi give us such a range of cars and options to choose from.
I've actually owned a 2.0l diesel that was remapped and it probably had the torque output of your dreams. Suffice to say what I've got now fits my needs perfectly as, and what diesels are suited towards, I do not make any long journeys such as the ones you make. Thus we all, hopefully, purchase what's suits us...
