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RS4 vs S3 (mapped)

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by MartayMcFly, May 5, 2012.

  1. MartayMcFly
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    MartayMcFly Well-Known Member Regional Rep VCDS Map User

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    [May 5, 2012]
    OK boys and girls, does a mapped S3 even compare to an RS4? I'm guessing not, having been in a few RS4s, but the power is so immediate, so linear, maybe a forced-induction head-to head would be more appropriate? I also have a good friend with an S5 who wants to know what weight penalty he pays? Based on pretty poor maths, his S5 gives nothing to my S3 and both are getting to 60mph at the 5.5s barrier! N/A is the obvious next step, but do S/RS really command the GT-R premium?
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  3. PH1L
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    PH1L Gievf Buckets VCDS Map User

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    [May 5, 2012]
    sort of irrelevant to your question but i feel that the cabin alone and quality of drive makes the s and rs models worth their salt however everyone has their own opinion you need to decide just what it is that you want from your car.................or buy both :)
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  4. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details VCDS Map User

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    [May 5, 2012]
    I went out in an RS4 B7 cab. What a let down (performance wise) Lovely package though.

    When I had my cousin's 350bhp big turbo TT, I thrashed one of the lights.

    Luke Massy's supercharged RS4 is probably fun though, 620bhp :ninja:
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  5. MBK
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    MBK Active Member

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    [May 5, 2012]
    In pure statistics terms mapped S3 v RS4 the answer is no.

    Mapped (stage 1) S3 is about 209 bhp/ton vs RS4 at 255 bhp/ton and that is quite a difference especially at higher speeds.
    0-60 will be close though say 4.5s in the RS4 to 5's in the S3 (these are estimates and I'm sure someone will have more accurate figures). By 100 a good gap would have opened up RS4 0-100 is around 10s, the mapped S3 will be closer to 13s.

    (Oh and your mates S5 is also about 200bhp/ton so yes quite a penalty for the near 1700kg weight despite 330 bhp - stats would be about the same as a mapped S3 on paper)

    That doesn't tell the full story though because a lot of driving is subjective and in my experience the turbo charged car often feels more elastic - I say feels because it's equally deceptive - and you can sometimes be lazier with higher gear overtaking.

    The RS4 is an experience though and it's the overall package that excels. If you just want to go as fast there are plenty of Evo's that will do the job for a lot less cash.

    So if you want to keep up with the RS4 in an A3 you probably need an RS3 but I would say that because I'm biased.
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  6. RedDejavu
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    RedDejavu Well-Known Member

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    [May 5, 2012]
    rough figures:

    rs4 = pw=254bhp

    s5 p/w=206

    s3 stage 1 p/w=221bhp
    s3 stage 2 p/w=246bhp
    s3 stage 2+p/w=257bhp
    #5
  7. Silky-S3
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    Silky-S3 Is loving his new 8V S3!

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    [May 5, 2012]
    I had 2 run in's with RS4s and it was pretty much neck and neck, maybe with me pulling a slight gap :)
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  8. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [May 5, 2012]
    Never realised the 8P S3's were so heavy!

    300bhp in my 8L A3 gives me 266bhp/ton and it'll outrun a B7 RS4 without too much hasstle. It's not a million miles quicker by any stretch, but it will pull away.

    I'll go back to my corner now! Sorry!
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  9. HEKTOR
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    HEKTOR Member

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    [May 5, 2012]
    Dont forget that the b7 rs4's dont make book figures. They get about 380bhp or there abouts. I also seen one make 303bhp at a rolling road day. It wouldnt surprise me if a mildly tuned s3 kept up with a b7.
    #8
  10. quattro81
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    quattro81 All the gear.. No idea

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    [May 5, 2012]
    You wouldnt keep up with an rs4 in an rs3 - you'd beat it! Particulary on any tighter twister roads... The rs3 is another league altogether, I don't think power to weight tells anywhere near the full story. The variable geometry turbo, combined with the epic s-tronic box, just leaves the rs4 looking a bit old really.
    By the time you're on a stage 2 map or above on an s3, the rs4 is starting to look whipped.. And all that weight particularly at the front with the v8, just means the s3 will make it look stupid round any corner. Bhp per tonne tells you almost nothing about real world performance
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  11. S.
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    S. Well-Known Member

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    [May 5, 2012]
    can't be that the car that should have 420bhp from factory makes 300bhp at a rolling road. only thing that can be or the car had issues or dyno operator doesn't know how to do a run with rs4 can't be missing that sort of power for sure.
    one rs4 over here with milltek and remap does over 450bhp on rr.

    but have to agree that tuned s3 does keep up with rs4 and does fly by the s5.
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  12. willowsdad
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    willowsdad Sideways

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    [May 5, 2012]
    All though I find it somewhat hard to believe, I've heard more than one person describe the rs4 as sluggish. But for me that's irrelevant, as it's the sheer road presence of the b7 rs4 that floats my boat. And I'm sure the new one when it comes out will be faster than the rs3, especially in a straight line. I'm not sure what the figures are for the new one, but I'm sure someone can enlighten me. The fact is, if you plough enough money into any of these cars it'll just keep getting faster, so comparing mapped cars against standard cars just depends on individual cars and other mods like uprated suspension, haldex, etc. The only way to prove anything is to get them on the track and the strip, so if there's any volunteers I'll be happy to watch.
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  13. Silky-S3
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    Silky-S3 Is loving his new 8V S3!

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    [May 5, 2012]
    I'll volunteer! :racer:
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  14. RedDejavu
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    RedDejavu Well-Known Member

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    [May 5, 2012]
    so will I:D
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  15. Kelza
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    Kelza MODERATOR Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 5, 2012]
    Last edited: May 5, 2012
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  16. ~RS~
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    ~RS~ Active Member

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    [May 5, 2012]
    I'd love to see that so if you guys do get it together make a day of it and post up a thread on ASN.

    The B7 RS4 has sooooo much road presence as a package it's surely one of Audi's best cars no?
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  17. S.
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    S. Well-Known Member

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    [May 5, 2012]
    yes it is... when you see rs4 you're immediately in love and want one and the sound is amazing, but s3 on the other hand doesn't look much different than any a3.
    mine is debadged and people can hardly tell if it's s3 or tdi. untill you give them unpleasant surprise on the road :moa:
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  18. MartayMcFly
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    MartayMcFly Well-Known Member Regional Rep VCDS Map User

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    [May 5, 2012]
    Do it! and Hadwins is where I got my S3 from too!
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  19. willowsdad
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    willowsdad Sideways

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    [May 5, 2012]
    An asn run what you brung would be amazing. There's so many amazing cars on here it'd be one hell of a day. Drag strip, show n shine, and some track time. So who knows how to hire the top gear test track?
    #18
  20. MartayMcFly
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    MartayMcFly Well-Known Member Regional Rep VCDS Map User

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    [May 5, 2012]
    Sadly this little island we're on is just too big to make it work for everyone to meet up. And as for Top Gear, you just call up Jezza and then wait about 30 years until it's available.
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  21. Ben H
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    Ben H On a journey...

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    [May 5, 2012]
    The reason that so many people think that moderately powerful diesels are rocketships is because of the instant power delivery. The point is that for most people, in most situations, all you are able to use is a squirt of acceleration - and if that acceleration is strong, then you can "win" against cars that need longer to wind-up.

    Frankly, a B7 RS4 could easily be caught napping by an S3 in any state of tune. But beyond that, a standard S3 would be left wanting in any measure of full-bore acceleration and you'd need something around Stage 2+/3 to be in the ballpark. Even then, you'd be playing second fiddle in terms of handling finesse, braking and :rolleyes: the ability to carry a wardrobe while doing it all. ;)
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  22. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [May 5, 2012]
    A stock S3 wouldn't be there at all,with the RS4s instant grunt but at Stg2+ or 3 the S3 has a power/weight advantage and that becomes quite significant.
    Of course,if you left the suspension and brakes alone , the S3 would struggle,but attend to those and once again,the tuned S3 has the advantage.

    By the time the S3 is over 440bhp,the RS4 will be playing second fiddle.

    In any case,you'd need a track for any of this.
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  23. quattro81
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    quattro81 All the gear.. No idea

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    [May 5, 2012]
    Agree with this to a certain extent, but the s3 is a much more flexible package to tune, particularly in the handling stakes. The RS4 is just tooo heavy! As for the new RS4, it's got the same 4.2v8, with s-tronic this time and mildy fettled to produce 440ish bhp, not a massive leap from the previous version. Rumour has it, it's actually slightly heavier too! It's always gonna sound EPIC, be a bit more roomy on long journeys.. But its' STILL slower than an RS3 :rockwoot:at any point - from a standstill or anywhere else the figures speak for themsleves. :)
    Still always amazes me that the 4.2v8 engine is still heavier and bigger than the w12!? German witchcraft, or stupidity, depends how you look at it?

    Way I look at it, the rs3 is around half a second faster to 62mph.. it has around 335bhp, so any s3 that's around this or further will just leave it...?
    #22
  24. quattro81
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    quattro81 All the gear.. No idea

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    [May 5, 2012]
    And as always Al is right lol.. But I think it's a given that suspension and brakes should be tuned on the s3 after stage one:think: Then the rs4 just wouldn't stand a chance IMO. I've driven one several times and been a passenger many times - I love it to bits, but it needs to be treated with a lot more respect on the road than an s3 with braking/sus mods. It really picks up some serious momentum when barrelling along!
    #23
  25. IceHanger
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    IceHanger Active Member

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    [May 8, 2012]
    Well after a bit of "spirited fun" with an RS4 avant, I was shocked how much slower it was compared to the s3 (S-tronic) I was very interested to see what it was like so bated the pimped black avant round a roundabout and off up a private dual carriage way, the s3 stuck to his back bumper untill I backed off (childish I know but dont care :p) was good fun and the RS4 sounded lovely!!!
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  26. HEKTOR
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    HEKTOR Member

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    [May 9, 2012]
    There are many cases where the rs4 does not make the claimed power. I am sure there will be plenty of rs4 owners who dont even know about this, but speak to those who have modded them or have an interest in their car and i am sure they will admit that their rs4 was a good chunk below the claimed figure of 414.

    The car was healthy to my knowledge, the dyno and its operator were good. All the cars at the rr day made their numbers including mine 625bhp.
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  27. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [May 9, 2012]
    Nice power there Hektor!....are you going to the Inters?
    I think one of the problems with the RS4 not meeting it's figures has to be the problem with the intake valves getting caked with ****,but the engine still sounds lovely.
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  28. sturs4
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    sturs4 Member

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    [May 23, 2012]
    Ive just sold my stage 2+ S3 for a B7 RS4.The power delivery of both cars is so different.i love the boost that a turbo gives you but i have really missed a powerful N/A engine.Torque is instand and for a V8 it loves to rev.I recon the s3 would have kept up easily,but i would'nt really care if the RS4 got a whooping,for me its the perfect car,looks,sound,feel,build the lot.one thing it exels in is grip,it flies round corners and for a big saloon its really nimble,it gives you lots of confidence in the bends.
    #27
  29. HEKTOR
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    HEKTOR Member

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    [May 23, 2012]
    Cheers Alex. I will be at Inters. I have a trade pitch booked so will be there on friday till sunday.

    The rs4's do suffer from the intake clogging up. Even when cleaned etc they still struggle to make the figures. There are some guys with well spec'd rs4 running 430-450 after changing exhaust, intake, map etc so the engine can make the number is tweaked, but not many if any actually make the figures out of the box.

    Sorry to the s3 guys, but the s3 might be quicker when modded, but mod the rs4 and it will be different story. My friend owns a 630bhp supercharged rs4 and that will certainly put most cars to shame. As stu said, the rs4 is a total package.
    #28
  30. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [May 23, 2012]
    Hi Hektor,

    Please drop me a PM and tell me which pitch to look for.
    I'd love to see your car and have a chat.
    #29
  31. Brodster
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    Brodster Shark Performance In Scotland Regional Rep Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [May 23, 2012]
    I can put my hand on my heart and honestly say that HEKTORS car is by far the quickest Audi I've ever had the pleasure of being in - it is a beast and a half and made me smile form ear to ear. I believe at its best and in peak its nearly kicking out 700bhp. After having a spin in mine, his made my Stage 1 look as though it was in reverse. Power delivery was just brutal and ever-lasting and also easy to drive at low speeds. Watch out Eddie I may come over for another adrenalin fuelled drive.
    #30
  32. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [May 23, 2012]
    I'm really looking forwards to this......just a chance to meet a few other petrolheads and have a good chat and a beer or two.
    #31
  33. MartayMcFly
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    MartayMcFly Well-Known Member Regional Rep VCDS Map User

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    [May 23, 2012]
    Not been out in it, but my boss' brother has an MTM V10 RS6 - 700bhp all day long. Apparently there is no let up (flat torque curve like the standard car) until you're basically on the limiter.
    #32
  34. HEKTOR
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    HEKTOR Member

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    [May 23, 2012]
    Feel free mark, it would be good to have you over again.

    The egt's sensors are away again so we are looking into ways around them until we figure out the best solution, so its limp mode for me lol a whole 7psi :-( Hopefully get the car in for the rear bumper to be painted, new wheels on and the egt's done before Inters, its going to be a struggle and oh so expensive.

    Alex delete some messages. I cant sent you a reply
    #33
  35. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [May 23, 2012]
    Ooops.....damn work browser has very limited functions!....done!
    #34
  36. Kelvin_S
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    Kelvin_S Member

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    [May 23, 2012]
    So how much money would it take to jump from 414 to 700bhp?
    #35
  37. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [May 23, 2012]
    The APR kit is currently £13k plus fitting,although there are cheaper kits,but none of this is going to leave you any change out of £12k,although HEKTOR would be able to give you a much better idea of that than i can,as I am only quoting the price of a well known kit.
    I did find this slightly cheaper one,but not sure I could recommend it....LOL
    Audi RS4 Supercharger Kit Electric RS4 Turbo Charger Bolt On
    #36
  38. Adamantium
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    Adamantium Member

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    [May 23, 2012]
    Personally I think most here are ignoring the V8 draw that the B7 has. Yes you can tinker with a blown smaller motor but there's nothing like NA big engine high revving response.

    For all the above, much as I love the quality of the audi, I'd still rather have a GTR which for that same £12k can have 750/800bhp but also has a chassis and more importantly a gearbox that can handle the power and still feel stock. The interior doesn't mix with the audi (though japanese toys are far better thought out and work better) but for that you can always run an A3 as a second car to get you your fix of german engineering!
    #37
  39. Brodster
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    Brodster Shark Performance In Scotland Regional Rep Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [May 23, 2012]
    Where I live on the A701 is one of the main routes from M74 to Edinburgh. Now nearly every 2-3 days over the last month I have seen a Nissan GTR on the back of a breakdown truck........the Audi garage have one in at the moment for £72k....was a trade in against a Q7.....has it moved yet.....NOPE!!! Apparently GTR's are having major problems at the minute with known issues............engine + gearbox = £20k. They keep falling like flies especially around my neck of the woods.......still would have an Audi as a lot cheaper to fix and more reliable.
    #38
  40. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [May 23, 2012]
    I think that as the last few posts have shown,we all like cars,but we all like different cars,or different twists on the same general theme,and thankfully there are V8's ,V10's and even some heavily turbo'd 4's to keep us all going,but what suits one isn't neccessarily going to suit another.
    #39
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  41. IceHanger
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    IceHanger Active Member

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    [May 23, 2012]
    couldn't agree more
    #40

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