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RS4 B5 on S4 front brake questions

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by aidank1981, Apr 6, 2009.

  1. aidank1981
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    aidank1981 Member

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    hello all

    just won RS4 front brakes off ebay for £206,

    item number 260385445403

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....45403&_sacat=See-All-Categories&_fvi=1&_rdc=1

    callipers look ok and pads are new, discs have seen better days but will do for now.

    will obviously need carriers? anyone got a pair/part number available, dont fancy gettin them from a dealer if i can help it!

    any recommended brake hose upgrades etc? any change in fitments between models, regular headaches for change? will i 'need' 18" wheels?

    have scoured old posts but kinda raised more questions, thought i'd ask you all

    they should be a big improvement??

    thanks again (sorry if anyone else on here was bidding too)
    #1
  2. Blue_Thunder
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    Blue_Thunder Active Member

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    I believe the RS4 front brakes bolt straight on to an S4, so you shouldn't need another carrier.

    You will need 18's as these won't fit under the standard wheels.

    Braking power isn't supposed to be much better, but the resistance to brake fade is worth the upgrade. Also worth getting some decent brake fluid to help further.
    #2
  3. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    bolt on for your struts.
    I can get you some Goodridge Motorsport hoses made up...like mine!!

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    don't believe the hype. made a huge difference to braking on mine
    #3
  4. Blue_Thunder
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    Blue_Thunder Active Member

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    Ed, what sort of price were the Goodridges? I'd be interested in some of these to reduce the spongeyness of my brakes.

    The only thing I've heard about them is nothing to do with their performance, more to do with the fact Goodridge seem to have to get individual measurements for every S/RS customer that's gone there!
    #4
  5. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    the standard 288mm brakes can lock the wheels, so the RS4 items arent going to stop the car any quicker. The advantage they provide is a resistance to fade, and more controllable/progressive braking.

    Its worth noting that fitting RS4's on the front alone will actually lose you braking performance, as you will shift the bias forwards. Either some RS4 rears, or some facelift S8 rears, will help balance things back out again.
    #5
  6. EnzoS4
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    EnzoS4 Member

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    I've got an S4 and these brake callipers on ebay look smaller than mine, didn't the RS4 have bigger fronts than the S4.?? I could be wrong..?
    #6
  7. andybnwc
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    andybnwc Member

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    thats what i thought but no RS4s are a lot smaller , im still after some discs to complete
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  8. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    will check, the guy I get to make them does them for rally cars. these have individual parst that can be serviced/reused and don't corrode.

    size wise they will be the same as mine so no issue with measurements.

    will get back to you
    Ed
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  9. aidank1981
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    aidank1981 Member

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    thanks all for the above, im looking for B5 RS4'S for the rear too (thanks aragorn)
    strange to read the RS4 calliper is smaller than the s4? is this right? i'm off shore so havent compaired although i did agree they looked quite small in the pictures?
    jcb... a price for those hoses would be great, what fluid you running?
    #9
  10. Blue_Thunder
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    Blue_Thunder Active Member

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    You don't neccessarily need to uprate the rears with these up front. The bias will hardly be changed. It's only when you start going for bigger front brakes that you need to worry about uprating the rears.

    Is your car facelift? If so, it will already have the vented rear discs which are better than the pre-facelift solid ones.
    #10
  11. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    they run 360mm discs caliper are definitely bigger to accomodate the disc and pads

    will get back to you today
    I forget tbh, will have to ask the guy who set them up. I left it i his hands. silicon rings a bell for some reason
    #11
  12. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    [​IMG]

    If we use that chart, and look at what happens when you use the B5 S4 Rear calipers, with the RS4 front calipers, you will see there is a shift forward in bias.

    Ok its 3%, but if you notice the RS4 has less front bias as standard than an S4, this is because factory cars tend to be front biased for safety. The RS4 being a more race dervied car, has the bias moved back, to provide better braking performance.

    Its not the end of the world moving it forward, but its useful to keep in mind that the braking would be better if it was biased correctly. Audi went for 69% front on the RS4, so thats where i'd be aiming.
    #12
  13. docurley
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    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Well I have a spare set of carriers painted red if you want to make me a offer brake pads are so cheap off ebay (£25) so they will not cost a arm and a leg to replace.
    #13
  14. aidank1981
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    aidank1981 Member

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    for the front or rears mate? i'm not very familuir with either end tbh havent had her long enough to get my hands dirty yet, just seen the RS4's went for them an thought i'd address the balance as discussed above. i'd def be after rears tho, does the b5 s4 and rs4 share the same rear calliper? i assume its just offset for the larger disc?

    thanks docurley

    great info aragorn, cheers
    #14
  15. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    ye the caliper is mostly the same, although there is a slight difference where the hose comes out iirc.

    I suspect if you had an S4 caliper (assuming its a facelift S4) and an RS4 carrier it would go together just fine.

    Pre-facelift S4's have a different caliper, as they only have 240x12mm rear disks, instead of the 256x22mm disks on the later cars.
    #15
  16. docurley
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    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Front
    #16
  17. EnzoS4
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    EnzoS4 Member

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    andybnwc - don't understand my the RS4 has smalled breaks..? but thanks for info
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  18. aidank1981
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    aidank1981 Member

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    ah that sounds ok then! she is a face lift, well going by headlights and door handles anyway she seems to be on the 'turn' i've found pre and post facelift features. i'll look into getting the rs4 rear carriers and discs then!

    cheers
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  19. andybnwc
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    andybnwc Member

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    no idea maybe just a different shape ?
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  20. Dan Gliballs
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    Dan Gliballs Active Member

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    While we're on the subject, are the B5 RS4 rear calipers easy to get hold of?

    I have RS4 brakes fitted front and rear, and I might have fooked a rear caliper when trying to force the piston back (before I realised they need to be wound DOH!!!!! lol).

    Just wondered if they were a common part with other models?

    Cheers.
    #20
  21. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    B5 S4 vented rear caliper is pretty much the same part as the RS4 one, and should swap out ok.

    I think the brake hose might be in a slightly different place, however the mounting points and piston size are the same afaik.
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  22. Dan Gliballs
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    Dan Gliballs Active Member

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    Hmmmmm, did I read that they're also the same as the 2.8 V6 items too? (ie. not entirely exclusive or rare),........or am I dreaming?
    #22
  23. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    hmm, they might be, but the 2.8 (and other models) arent vented, so the caliper body might be narrower...
    #23
  24. aidank1981
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    aidank1981 Member

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    anyone got the tech layout diagram of the rear rs4 brakes? i'm after the part number for this calliper spacer, my rear is facelift therefore in theory with rs4 rear discs my standard pads and callipers can be offset to accomadate the new discs?
    #24
  25. S4twiggy
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    S4twiggy Fully Certified Detailer!!

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    there is someone on SRS that does the spacers that will fit to our rears mate which will accomodate the RS4 rears
    #25
  26. aidank1981
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    aidank1981 Member

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    got any contact details mate?
    #26
  27. docurley
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    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I thought b5 RS4 brakes where a straight swap!
    #27
  28. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    trigs caliper spacers allow you to use B6 S4 rear disks, not RS4 ones.

    If you want to use RS4 disks you really need the correct RS4 calipers/carriers and brake hoses. The brake pipe and handbrake cable arrangement is all slightly different on the RS4 calipers to ensure it all fits properly.
    #28
  29. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    i have RS4 B5 rear brakes (calipers/carriers etc) with 1.8t handbrake cable. works fine.
    needed custom hoses as the originals were chopped
    #29
  30. aidank1981
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    aidank1981 Member

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    i've been in contact with MRC and they assured me with RS4 rear carriers and the facelift S4 callipers would work with an RS4 rear disc?
    i would normally assume there advice would be beyond question?

    jcb is that a set up you've fitted to a 1.8t or just used a 1.8t cable on another model?

    so do i need to start looking for rs4 rear callipers?
    #30
  31. dest
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    dest Member

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    Is your car facelift? If so, Im pretty sure you need to get the ABS recoded with RS4 brakes
    #31
  32. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    its hard to explain without looking at the parts.

    the brake pipe on the S4 facelift caliper sticks out perpendicular to the caliper body. On the normal 256mm disks this isnt a problem, but even on 280mm disks it starts to run VERY close to the arm that sticks out of the hub carrier for the tie rod. I'd imagine at 312mm of the RS4 disks its going to be jammed into it.

    On an RS4 caliper, they use a banjo fitting, which allows the hose to come off parallel with the caliper, and this presumably gives things additional room. If you have RS4 carriers already, it'll only take you half an hour to test it on the car, which might give you a better idea of whats going on.

    On the handbrake cable, the RS4 cable is about 12" longer than the S4/1.8T one, We fitted 280mm rears to craigs S4 and found the standard cable very tight, i wouldnt like to try to make it reach a caliper thats 3/4" further over.
    #32
  33. docurley
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    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I have to say I have never heard that the handbreak needs changing, im sure there is enough ajustment at the lever and no need to chang abs pump.
    #33
  34. dest
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    dest Member

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    #34
  35. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    doc: its not the cable itself thats the issue, its the outer sleeve. The outer clips onto the caliper and as the caliper is further away it ends up a bit short.
    #35

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